Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?"

[Antig]

The last time my aunt went to confession the priest told her to read the gospel of that week as a penance. I know that in my aunt's church the priest often gives various things to do as penance other than the rosary.

Speaking about the rosary, my belief is, as taught, that it's a prayer to God. It's about remembering times in the life of Jesus. This is what I was taught as a child. As for repetitive prayer, did not Jesus recite the same psalms daily?

Also, I have read that the Orthodox Catholics recite the Jesus prayer many times in a day.

I think vein repetitions as quoted from Jesus is about words without meaning. Just mumbo jumbo words.

Can I add, that reading through this thread I would never have thought that some of the comments were from Christians! Why the animosity?

 

[Major1]

Sorry, friend, but you can read your personal opinion, influenced by the Reformer's personal opinions, into it as much as you want, but the Church was there, and she knows the gospel better than any. A main point to see in Eph 2:10 is that God gives us, His servants, works to do It's to feel better about themselves. think of the Parable of the Talents. So we're already speaking of grace, not our own works done in some vain attempt to prove our holiness. Now try to see through the shallowness of the 'faith alone, once saved always saved' doctrine and understand that justification and sanctification cannot be separated-it's a whole package deal; how we live our lives, once God touches us, once we've 'tasted of the heavenly gift' determines whether or not we've "invested our talents" wisely. And consider what happens to the wicked and lazy servant that buries his talents instead.

God is looking to restore and even increase justice to His wayward creation, not to suddenly decide to disregard or merely impute justice. He didn't create man to sin; He wants us to 'go, and sin no more', with His help, His partnership. There is no heaven for sinners, simply because sinners can't even see God; they don't even want to, distracted as they are by lesser, created things above Him first and foremost.
"Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God." Matt 5:8
"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14

You are correct in that ......"God gives us, His servants, works to do It's to feel better about themselves". The more we focus on others the less we focus on own on problems BUT that in no way can be translated into the Salvation process.

What you are proposes is actually the great serious errors that plague the RCC. Roman Catholicism, teaches that in order to gain enough merit for salvation, we must add our good works to what Christ did on the cross. Under this view, you can never know for sure whether or not you are saved, because there is no way to check your “merit balance” to see if you’ve stored up enough. So you have to keep adding good works in the hope of gaining eternal life. Under Roman Catholic teaching, a person could never say what Paul says in Ephesians 2:8, “you have been saved.”

The correct exegesis of Ephesians 2:10 speaks directly to that error and I am so very glad you used it. Correct Bible understanding always rests on CONTEXT!!! In Eph. 2:10 Paul is explaining (“For”) the previous two verses, which is where he has said that we have been saved by grace through faith, apart from any works on our part. It is all the gift of God, so that He alone gets all the glory. Now Paul further explains that… Genuine salvation is entirely of God and it inevitably results in a life of good works.

Good works is the product of salvation and is "FAITH ALONE" saves.

Paul said, “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus….” “His” is emphatic in the Greek, underscoring the point that Paul has been making throughout chapters 1 and 2 which again CONTEXT demands is that our salvation was ordained by God from eternity and that we had nothing to do with it. We were dead in our sins, but God raised us from the dead (2:1, 5). Just as God created the universe out of nothing by the word of His power, so God created us in Christ Jesus by His mighty power.

If we can see that the scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically, we are saved by faith alone. There is NO reason to believe what I say but I would encourage you as well as all Catholic believers to take a look at what the Bible says about faith and works.
Rom. 3:28-30..........
"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5......
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1........
"therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;"

Rom. 9:30.........
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;"

Rom. 10:4..........
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6..........
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16..........
"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21..........
" I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Gal. 3:5-6..........
"Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24..........
"Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9...........
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9......
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly; and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone......Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too? | CARM.org

 

[Major1]

The last time my aunt went to confession the priest told her to read the gospel of that week as a penance. I know that in my aunt's church the priest often gives various things to do as penance other than the rosary.

Speaking about the rosary, my belief is, as taught, that it's a prayer to God. It's about remembering times in the life of Jesus. This is what I was taught as a child. As for repetitive prayer, did not Jesus recite the same psalms daily?

Also, I have read that the Orthodox Catholics recite the Jesus prayer many times in a day.

I think vein repetitions as quoted from Jesus is about words without meaning. Just mumbo jumbo words.

Can I add, that reading through this thread I would never have thought that some of the comments were from Christians! Why the animosity?

You are very, very correct! The animosity has always been there and it seems it always will be.

WHY then is a really good question which is why I asked it in the very 1st post. My comment was that it comes from the lack of being able to determine who the AUTHORITY is. The RCC says that it is the POPE and he is the infallible head of the church and it operates through TRADITIONS of men.
The Protestants say that it is Jesus who is in fact the head, and the authority comes from His infallible Word.

Having done this kind of debating for a long time I and most everyone else knew that it would be just like this.

WHY????

Basically, all people are stubborn and do not want to be told what to do. Most all people like what they know and resist anything that is different from what they already know and they do not have the desire to learn anything else even if what they know is incorrect.

There are lots and lots of psychological web sites out there. Why not do the work and visit some of them to verify what I am saying to you.

 

[Major1]

This thread really answers the question it asks. There's so much animosity because the very people asking, "Why aren't we acting civil?" are the ones bearing false witness against their brothers and sisters in Christ. Why bother asking the question if you're going to tar and feather your brother and sister as soon as you finish your sentence?

Why indeed?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why indeed?

Why in truth ?
Is the battle really leaves on the tree sort of thing ?
Is the battle really just men vs men , one group vs another group never-ending ?

Is the battle , in other words, "in the flesh" ? (like perhaps described in Corinthians and Galatians, in part or more ? )

Or , is the battle "in SPIRIT", in SPIRITUAL PLACES ? (particularly INSIDE EACH MAN, for the determination where his soul will finally be ? )

Is the greatest battle, the important one, the final one, simply inside the heart ?

 

[LynnC]

The only animosity I have ever been aware of has been on the side of the Protestants, towards the Catholics.
When I moved to the south I was shocked to discover this misunderstanding of the Catholic faith, and that many, or most, did not even understand that Catholic is Christian. I was shocked to discover the animosity that existed towards Catholicism.
I never heard one word in my Catholic church against the faith of another.

 

[DRobert]

Have you read the daily missal?
Mine ends on this note:

"When we pray, the voice of the heart must be heard more than that proceeding from the mouth."
- St. Bonaventure

 

[DRobert]

Why in truth ?
Is the battle really leaves on the tree sort of thing ?
Is the battle really just men vs men , one group vs another group never-ending ?

Is the battle , in other words, "in the flesh" ? (like perhaps described in Corinthians and Galatians, in part or more ? )

Or , is the battle "in SPIRIT", in SPIRITUAL PLACES ? (particularly INSIDE EACH MAN, for the determination where his soul will finally be ? )

Is the greatest battle, the important one, the final one, simply inside the heart ?

Battle against what is called the three-fold conspicupance: The flesh, the world and the Devil.

There is excellent Catholic material based on the Science Of The Saints that deals with this exact subject

St. Ignatius, St. Teressa of Avila and Saint John of the Cross, St. Francis De Sales are all excellent sources to go to for this sort-of thing. God bless.

 

[fhansen]

You are correct in that ......"God gives us, His servants, works to do It's to feel better about themselves". The more we focus on others the less we focus on own on problems BUT that in no way can be translated into the Salvation process.

What you are proposes is actually the great serious errors that plague the RCC. Roman Catholicism, teaches that in order to gain enough merit for salvation, we must add our good works to what Christ did on the cross. Under this view, you can never know for sure whether or not you are saved, because there is no way to check your “merit balance” to see if you’ve stored up enough. So you have to keep adding good works in the hope of gaining eternal life. Under Roman Catholic teaching, a person could never say what Paul says in Ephesians 2:8, “you have been saved.”

The correct exegesis of Ephesians 2:10 speaks directly to that error and I am so very glad you used it. Correct Bible understanding always rests on CONTEXT!!! In Eph. 2:10 Paul is explaining (“For”) the previous two verses, which is where he has said that we have been saved by grace through faith, apart from any works on our part. It is all the gift of God, so that He alone gets all the glory. Now Paul further explains that… Genuine salvation is entirely of God and it inevitably results in a life of good works.

Good works is the product of salvation and is "FAITH ALONE" saves.

Paul said, “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus….” “His” is emphatic in the Greek, underscoring the point that Paul has been making throughout chapters 1 and 2 which again CONTEXT demands is that our salvation was ordained by God from eternity and that we had nothing to do with it. We were dead in our sins, but God raised us from the dead (2:1, 5). Just as God created the universe out of nothing by the word of His power, so God created us in Christ Jesus by His mighty power.

If we can see that the scriptures exclude works in any form as a means of our salvation, then logically, we are saved by faith alone. There is NO reason to believe what I say but I would encourage you as well as all Catholic believers to take a look at what the Bible says about faith and works.
Rom. 3:28-30..........
"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5......
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1........
"therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;"

Rom. 9:30.........
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;"

Rom. 10:4..........
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6..........
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16..........
"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21..........
" I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Gal. 3:5-6..........
"Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24..........
"Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9...........
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9......
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly; and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone......Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too? | CARM.org

No, this is the error of the Reformers, not understanding, not grasping, the gospel, and then not taking the whole of Scripture, particularly the New Testament, in context. But it's understandable; you're at a disadvantage. You don't have the lived experience of God's revelation to help you. You mainly have only one aspect of that revelation, the Church's earliest writings, which you've become obsessed with. But why? You've already helped show, by asking for similarities and differences between Protestant beliefs based on Scripture, the completely fallacious nature of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

And not only fallacious but dangerous, as it's led many into the ugly error of "faith alone" which stunts and perverts the will of God into a potential excuse for not doing His will, or spreads confusion about justification at best. "Oh my, we can't possibly be obedient, poor little sinful wretches that we are; we must rely on faith alone and not be concerned when we sin, as long as we continue to believe. Or maybe that doesn't even matter, as long as we've once believed. Not sure. But we're so good at that, such good and humble little believers, trusting in God as we do, not like those big bad Catholics that have the audacity to think God might want them to actually do something that might affect their salvation. He wouldn't be that mean to us would He-imposing any obligations besides faith? That'd almost be as bad as the way He treats those outsiders who He never gave the gift of faith to at all. God wouldn't actually expect morality/righteousness from me in order to gain entrance to heaven? Jesus did it all-I'm just a stupid amoral irresponsible beast cuz that's how God created me-and He knows I can't be anything more than that-and I need to know that too." A mixing of theologies there perhaps but flowing from the same font, all absurd either way.

 

[fhansen]

We aren’t going back to the Saturday Sabbath. I know how much that must upset you, but you are simply going to have to get over it.

The Sola Scriptura adherents should take this up with each other. Scripture, serving as the norm, should be able to clear this matter up ASAP.

 

[rrguy]

You are very, very correct! The animosity has always been there and it seems it always will be.

WHY then is a really good question which is why I asked it in the very 1st post. My comment was that it comes from the lack of being able to determine who the AUTHORITY is. The RCC says that it is the POPE and he is the infallible head of the church and it operates through TRADITIONS of men.
The Protestants say that it is Jesus who is in fact the head, and the authority comes from His infallible Word.

Having done this kind of debating for a long time I and most everyone else knew that it would be just like this.

WHY????

Basically, all people are stubborn and do not want to be told what to do. Most all people like what they know and resist anything that is different from what they already know and they do not have the desire to learn anything else even if what they know is incorrect.

There are lots and lots of psychological web sites out there. Why not do the work and visit some of them to verify what I am saying to you.

Here is one key, we are quick to claim knowledge of others. Easy to see difference that makes us right vs similarities? Even a ex Baptist or Catholic may tell you what they thought was wrong but could have been misinformed themselves. Like people saying Catholic are full of Man made traditions & fail to recognize where their alter call came from?

 

[rrguy]

One good thing is talking to people and makes me go on where did I learn that & why do I believe that? I just don't want to create a religion and God that fits my short comings?

 

[wilts43]

I think animosity stems from many having an, "I'm right and you're wrong perspective" instead of, "We're all brothers and sisters in Christ" perspective. Until we change our focus to what we hold in common rather than how we are different, animosity will persist.

These are wise & cosy words. True; & yet insufficient.

Gordon Conwell's latest figure on Protestant denominations= 45,000 and growing at more than 2/day.

If we accept your advice &..... "change our focus to what we hold in common"
Just what would that be?
We know what The Catholic Church holds.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
But what do these 4500 denominations hold in Common?
There are even mainline-Protestant differences over salvation-essentials such as Baptism!
What about quasi Christians-... JW's, LDS's. Christadelphians?
If you include them, why not Bhudists, Jains, Zorastrians etc.?
The more you pare down "to the bit that unites us" the less you have left "that unites us".
More & more can unite around less & less.

This cry, to reduce the fullness of The Gospel, to a least-common-denominater, nutshell, rainbow-alliance, fuzzy-feeling, of Christian-acceptance is undoubtedly lovingly motivated, but it gives up on objective truth.......Which, as far as the latter goes, means, It is thoroughly (modern) Protestant, and anti-Catholic.
It purports to be impartial; but it comes directly from the despair of finding any unitive truth in the Babel of modern Protestantism

 

[GraceSeeker]

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

Wow!! 36 pages of responses. You must have hit a nerve. I confess I can't read them all, so I haven't. And it wouldn't surprise me if few get so far as to read my response, but here it is anyway.

No doubt in a forum like this you're going to find lots of people willing to take the bait and debate away. Depending on your particular interests and where you hang out it may look like the biggest debates are between Protestants and Catholics. Heck things like the Thirty Years War tell us that we can treat the differences between us like life and death matters. But, I would submit to you that both observations are only small parts of the story. In 30+ years of ministry in the local church, I've seen much more cooperation and love than animosity or even antipathy between Protestants and Catholics.

So, yeah, on an internet forum, which tends to bring out the worst in our way of expressing ourselves, I'm sure you can find lots of evidence of conflict between people of different faiths (probably even within the faith if you were to ask the right questions). But in real life, between people who know each other, my experience tells me that our common faith if far superior to any divisions which may also exist. So, I suggest it is the medium and the type of poster it attracts -- i.e., those which allow things to disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars -- whichyou are observing more than the depth of conflict between Protestant and Catholic.

 

[Major1]

Here is one key, we are quick to claim knowledge of others. Easy to see difference that makes us right vs similarities? Even a ex Baptist or Catholic may tell you what they thought was wrong but could have been misinformed themselves. Like people saying Catholic are full of Man made traditions & fail to recognize where their alter call came from?

Your assumption is that their is such a Doctrine in a Baptist or Methodist or Pentecostal or any Protestant church as "Alter Call". The "Alter Call" is NOT a Bible doctrine neither is it a Protestant doctrine and I really do not know why the Catholic believers try to make it one. It was never a doctrine!!!

As Christians, if our preaching has no power, let us face it. Let us lament it. Let us get down on our knees and cry out to God because of it since it is not His fault but ours. And let us stay there until he anoints us with the unction of the Spirit to preach the gospel of the grace and power of our sovereign God. Then---and only then---will we begin to see, again, the kind of results that Ezekiel saw in that amazing vision in Ezekiel 37:7-10............

"So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army."

 

[Major1]

Wow!! 36 pages of responses. You must have hit a nerve. I confess I can't read them all, so I haven't. And it wouldn't surprise me if few get so far as to read my response, but here it is anyway.

No doubt in a forum like this you're going to find lots of people willing to take the bait and debate away. Depending on your particular interests and where you hang out it may look like the biggest debates are between Protestants and Catholics. Heck things like the Thirty Years War tell us that we can treat the differences between us like life and death matters. But, I would submit to you that both observations are only small parts of the story. In 30+ years of ministry in the local church, I've seen much more cooperation and love than animosity or even antipathy between Protestants and Catholics.

So, yeah, on an internet forum, which tends to bring out the worst in our way of expressing ourselves, I'm sure you can find lots of evidence of conflict between people of different faiths (probably even within the faith if you were to ask the right questions). But in real life, between people who know each other, my experience tells me that our common faith if far superior to any divisions which may also exist. So, I suggest it is the medium and the type of poster it attracts -- i.e., those which allow things to disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars -- whichyou are observing more than the depth of conflict between Protestant and Catholic.

You are correct and I agree completely. We have several Catholic believers living as our neighbors and we have never, not once in over 25 years had once single argument or problem.

When there has been a death in a family, my Catholic friends are the 1st ones at the door with a sandwich and a bowl of soup and we do the very same thing for them.

Three years ago when I had a knee replaced, my next door Catholic neighbor paid someone $300.00 to keep our lawn mowed all summer. My children did not even offer that.

I think that you are correct in that the computer screen gives certain people who would never be argumentative and un-cival the ambiguiaty to be just that. When people can hide and not be touched physically we tend to be much more aggressive than we would in person.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.

However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!

How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.

Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.

Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."

Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.

Yes, the short answer to "why so much animosity" goes back to why this great church schism happened in the first place. There were important (even vital) reasons for the Reformation. Most of those reasons still remain. Back then there were burnings at the stake and beheadings over these issues. The animosity is far less now. We argue a bit, it is true, but many ecumenical projects have been successful. Just do not expect very many protestants to cross the Tiber or very many Catholics to embrace Luther, Calvin, or Cranmer.

 

[dannheim]

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.

However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!

How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.

Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.

Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."

Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.

However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!

How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.

Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.

Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."

Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.

IF you have been on this web site for any length of time you have seen that most of the conversations and debates revolve around the conflict between the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith.

There is constant back and forth banter and in the end the difference is still there.
IT seems that the debates always disintegrate into personal combat and verbal wars with the moderators finally ending the thread and in fact I expect that same thing to happen to this thread.

It seems to me that the conflict comes from our basic human nature in dealing with fundamental disagreements concerning eternal truths. The Protestants understand that the RCC teaches a "work-gospel" that can not save and the Catholic church thinks that Protestants teach a "greasy - grace" gospel that requires nothing more than a simple confession of wrong doing/sin due to the emotional preaching of a man.

However, looking deeper than just that the question must be WHY?
In My Opinion the real rift that ignites the debate is rooted in AUTHORITY!

How anyone answers that question always determines the answers to all the other questions.
I think that every Catholic believer will agree that when it comes down to deciding a theological issue about defined Catholic dogma, there isn’t anything to discuss on the Catholic's side because once Rome speaks, it is settled.

Therefore we have the ROOT of the conflict. Whenever there is a theological discussion when trying to debate a Roman Catholic – reason and Scripture are not the Catholic’s final authority; they can always retreat into the “safe zone” of Roman Catholic Authority.

Because of this, the arguments between a Protestant and a Catholic will revolve around one's “private interpretation” of Scripture as against the "official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church."

Catholics claim to successfully avoid the legitimate problems of private interpretation by their reliance on their TRADITION. But that never satisfies the difference but instead merely pushes the question back a step. The truth is that both Roman Catholics and Protestants must, in the end, rely upon their reasoning abilities to choose their authority and their interpretive skills to understand what that authority teaches in order to determine what they will believe. IMO, Protestants are simply more willing to admit that this is the case.

It has been my personal experience that Man cannot agree on anything. That is why we have wars, countries, division, political parties etc. Yet even within each division there is controversy, disagreement etc.

It is within this context that I can truthfully say there will never be agreement until Man's nature is extinguished and replaced with the incorruptible.

Remember that God did not create denominations - Man did.

 

[ChristHasRisen456]

If you ask the Orthodox you get a very different answer Scripture trumps tradition. There are Traditions handed down out side of scripture and if you want a book on it it is written down in the
THE DIDACHE

The Church Fathers. The Complete Ante-Nicene & Nicene and Post-Nicene Church Fathers Collection: 3 Series, 37 Volumes, 65 Authors, 1,000 Books, 18,000 Chapters, 16 Million Words (Kindle Locations 32-33). Catholic Way Publishing. Kindle Edition.

You can also get the books if not the kindle version, but clear several shelves off for all of them.

The scriptures came from the Orthodox church and it is the guardian of them.

I can sum up the differences in the denominations. In Orthodox, you have unity and freedom in the same church. The Roman church schism and put unity above or at the cost of freedom. The Reformation happened and put freedom above or at the cost of unity. Only in the original do you get both and it not something that can be proven, it has to be experienced and to do that you have to go all in an experience the Orthodox church.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I think animosity stems from many having an, "I'm right and you're wrong perspective" instead of, "We're all brothers and sisters in Christ" perspective. Until we change our focus to what we hold in common rather than how we are different, animosity will persist.

The problem always is in finding agreement on what are the essentials of the faith and what are secondary issues or even adiaphora. It is hard to call people "brothers and sisters in Christ" when they hold to heretical positions on essential doctrines and have revised what the scriptures actually say in order to fit them to their own values, that is, when they promote a false gospel. If they are apostate, then only God knows if they are actually saved Christians at all.

Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John all warned of false teachers and leaders who would spring up in the churches (wolves in sheep's clothing, hired hands, weeds among the wheat crop). Turning a deaf ear to heresy and sinful lifestyles is not the answer. Paul advised teaching the truth, rebuking false teachers, and eventually separating from those who are unbelievers or apostates (2 Cor 6:14-17).