Cassandra Complex, Sarah Connor, and futurism - how our timetables can become an addiction

[eclipsenow]

Amil sees that the Advent of the Messiah took the covenant nation of Israel and gave it a global, universal mission and dominion over all things. Therefore we are simply the next generation of Joshuas and Davids and Ezras and Pauls and Marys and Deborahs whose mission relates to the victorious destiny and inheritance of the Covenant people of God. We are the people of Hebrews 11 faith and dominon. We are the People who God has predestined that we might "establish righteousness and subdue kingdoms" as did the heroes of our Faith (Heb 11:33). And so we are the only nation upon earth that has been given all dominion over Heaven and earth to subdue it and establish Christ's law and rule among mankind.

Indeed the Church used to think that way up until the late 1800s and 1900s when the endtimes leaders (Darby, Scofield, Moody, Sunday, Lindsey, Impe, etc) began to teach a doctrine of "predestined endtimes defeatism for the Church." Their prescription to the Church? Withdrawal. Retreat. "Come out from her my people." Don't vote. "You Don't polish brass on a sinking ship." Your kids aren't gonna live long enough to choose a career, spouse or college. Etc. etc. etc. This short-term thinking has hamstrung our Churches and hamstrung America which was founded on great faith by Christians who were mostly unfamiliar with endtimes short-term thinking patterns. The pioneers of America were builders and people who saw human history through the eyes of all-powerful faith and Divine destiny.

That worldview and faith has been lost due to false endtimes dogmas.

Only return to the Historic Amil view of the unstoppable Victory of the Gospel in the new covenant age will right that ship.
The historic Church has always had an eschatology of victory and hope. Catholic Amillennialists and later the Postmillennial Revivalists (Johnathan Edwards, etc) all have the same belief that the Church will triumph victorious in this age before the final consummation talked about in the historic creeds. As St. John also said, "The darkness is past; the true light now shineth!"

The apostles rightly understood that the purpose for the end of the Old Covenant Era was "that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:7) and that the Church is God's agent of His own glory and wisdom (Eph 3:1-11, 21). Augustine, Eusebius, the Puritans, and today's Reconstructionists all taught/teach us an eschatology of victory and triumph for the Church (and not doom and gloom).

Amil is the most early and established Christian position on eschatology and it is the position that embraces and affirms the Victory of Christ and His Church in this age.

The Church is the only Nation of Christ that goes on forever, and the Church will never crumble (Matt 16:18-19;Eph 3:9-11,21). However, geo-political nations do come and go, for our God "sets up kings and puts them down" (Dan 2:21)... for God "is the supreme governor among the nations" (Ps 22:28)... for our God "rules over all the kingdoms of the heathen so none is able to withstand Him" (2 Chronicles 20:6)... and His "is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is His; His is the kingdom" (1 Chronicles 29:11). That is the gospel. That is the rule of law for mankind. That is the reality of the kingdom. The Church was given dominion over all the universe by divine right (Rom 4:12-18; Matt 28:18/Dan 7:14,27; Matt 5:5), and the world belongs to us (1 Cor 3:22) -- but, as with Joshua, the people of God must take it all by faith (1 Jn 5:4).

The vast majority of American evangelicals are dispensationalists, and they have been taught that America is doomed by God's will because we are in the last days. This has been their gospel for at least the past 100 years, and so those evangelicals and their kids and their grandkids were taught not to govern, run cities, play baseball, launch universities, or even get into media to fulfill one's duty to Christ. Mere personal piety was taught, the kind that doesn't affect anyone or anything else.
Ideas have consequences. As you point out, Dispensationalist ideas have disastrous consequences (withdrawal, abandonment, escapism, surrender).

Their problem is that dispensationalists were taught a castrated, reduced gospel so that they don't even know what it means to have Christ govern their lives, marriages, jobs, society, and country. Moses understood what it meant to have Christ govern lives, societies, families and country. So did Joshua. And David. And the apostles. And King Jesus. And even many of the fathers of America.

Interesting. I was thinking about how it affects personal lives and witness, you've taken a big picture view. I think I agree with some of your kingdom views - but might put it in less 'triumphalist' terms? Because I'm also convinced that the New Testament teaches us that Jesus kingdom is not of this world, that we are saved by grace not law, and that Paul judges the behaviour of those within the church - not outside. In other words, separation of church and state. So while I agree we should not be retreating and inward focused (*exception below), and we should be rubbing shoulders with our fellow citizens and having an influence, I do not see our reign as political. It's a spiritual kingdom that can operate effectively in a free secular society - and can have a profound influence on politics. But as C.S.Lewis said, the most political influence we can have on another is to convert them!

EXCEPTION: As I said in the OP, someone should DEFINITELY retreat from these forums and front-line activism stuff if they're in the manic Cassandra state I described above. They need time to sleep, cook, eat, walk, heal, rest and fellowship. They might just need time out to 'uncook' their brains!

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

And.... we're off! "You can date it" is coming down the outside track, but "It's a sequence of events" is catching him. Oh, what's this? "I'm the OP" is cutting them all off on the corner!

Reminder - this thread is not about which version of Futurism is true or how to date the end times.

It's about how to cope with that view if you have it. And how you conduct yourself around other Christians.

So if you think it's soon - how does it impact your life?

hi your Casandra syndrome is assuming that the futurist view is wrong. Jeremiah was a young man when he preached the destruction of Judah and Babylonian captivity and he was a very old man when it occurred. The futurist church I go to is both politically active in fighting against the wickedness that is coming and if you list all the churches that defied the covid lockdowns and stayed open and faced fines and jail they were largely futurist churches. The Jesus movement of the 70's had plenty of Hal Lindsey Chuck Smith teaching about the end times and the fruit of that teaching was salvation for many many people. The advise to focus on certain subjects is week as God dictated in scripture the exact proportion he wanted so if you study line by line through each book you will have found the whole counsel of God. The passage on with out faith it is impossible to please God is good and it teaches faith is a substance of things hoped for based on evidence of things seen. So when I see the word of God coming to pass I am not afraid but full of faith and have assurances in Christ who tells us not to be afraid or deceived. It says in 2 Thes 2 that when the man of sin is revealed in the Temple even the elect could be deceived if it were possible. In 70 AD no Christian was being remotely tempted to believe in the emperor. The idea of fear is dealt with in scripture and perfect love cast out all fear and God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power love and a sound mind. No Christian walking by faith should embrace this kind of fear as it is the antithesis of faith.

 

[eclipsenow]

hi your Casandra syndrome is assuming that the futurist view is wrong. Jeremiah was a young man when he preached the destruction of Judah and Babylonian captivity and he was a very old man when it occurred. The futurist church I go to is both politically active in fighting against the wickedness that is coming and if you list all the churches that defied the covid lockdowns and stayed open and faced fines and jail they were largely futurist churches.

Um, you're not helping your cause! How dare they? How dare they defy public health orders and demonstrate such an unChristlike disregard for the safety of others? No wonder America has 10 times the death and mayhem from the pandemic Australia had with such a woeful respect for science amongst 'believers'. When did applying known lock-down policies from 100 YEARS AGO become a BAD THING? This was our time to man up and lock down. To stay home. To wear a mask. For a bit - not forever. Then as the vaccines become available, to roll up our sleeves and get the jab. All of this, to win a war against a virus. Instead we're whining like a bunch of spoiled brats that want to go out and play when there's work to be done. How and when did we lose our spirit of self sacrifice in the Western world? In Australia this is called the “Anzac spirit” - a willingness to work hard and serve your mates - and be prepared to die for them. Let alone wear a little mask or get a little jab! Instead some alternative-reality group pretend it’s an individual liberty issue - and want the ‘right’ to spread a WMD to MILLIONS of their fellow citizens! This isn't only bad, but is downright unpatriotic! Take your own risks by all means - but don't volunteer the vulnerable, elderly, or immuno-compromised to get a WMD just because YOU don't want to be inconvenienced for a few months.

The Jesus movement of the 70's had plenty of Hal Lindsey Chuck Smith teaching about the end times and the fruit of that teaching was salvation for many many people.

Yeah - the JW's use the same Millennial fears to grow. Then they had to rewrite everything when it didn't happen. How many times are we going to do that before people just laugh in our faces?

The advise to focus on certain subjects is week as God dictated in scripture the exact proportion he wanted so if you study line by line through each book you will have found the whole counsel of God.

Amils do think they're teaching the whole counsel of God - with the emphasis where good theology places it. Or should we spend weeks studying the dimensions of the temple? Or the mould laws in the OT?

The passage on with out faith it is impossible to please God is good and it teaches faith is a substance of things hoped for based on evidence of things seen. So when I see the word of God coming to pass

Except 1948 was not in the bible. All those verses about the temple being rebuilt WERE fulfilled before Jesus was even born. Then JESUS became the final temple. Any future temple built after Jesus death and resurrection is a blasphemy!

In 70 AD no Christian was being remotely tempted to believe in the emperor.

Except you and your children got set on fire if you didn't! How much temptation is there to believe in Antichrists today compared to that!

The idea of fear is dealt with in scripture and perfect love cast out all fear and God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power love and a sound mind. No Christian walking by faith should embrace this kind of fear as it is the antithesis of faith.

Sure - but it's the manic assertion that someone KNOWS when the Lord is going to return that is the subject here. Then the timetable fails - as the "American Summer of Disasters - YOU'LL SEE!" did. And where's the guy? Goneski! We saw all right, we saw him chicken out and run away.

And what consequences on the young who postpone college and career choices because of some timetable? Aren't they going to be tempted to chuck in their faith all together if they're wrecked their lives because of some blogger on the internet! Aren't they going to see the whole of Christianity as a bit....

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

you are siding with the directives and mandates largely paid for by Bill Gates who bought The WHO. There is a warning not to be deceived and a command to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together as you see the day approaching. Well as a futurist the command was heeded and guess what we had pastors brought before magistrates and counsels where they gave the gospel and the reasons who they had to obey God rather than man.
Covid oddities to consider.
Event 201 was a war game simulation for a corona virus taking over the world.
The 1st cases were in the US were isolated to nursing homes where many the old
with preconditions were exposed and died. Doctors were ordered not to perform autopsy's
and the protocol was to not admit people until they were real sick then put them on ventilators and
a drug called Remdeciver which was killing many patients. When doctors defied the orders and did autopsy's they discovered that the patients were breathing the air but not absorbing the oxygen and the ventilators did no good. Other doctors who used early diagnosis and prescribed heavy doses of vitamin D, C and zinc along with cheap safe drugs like Ivremectin and Hydroxy chloroquine. This controlling the narrative has demonized doctors who have successfully treated patients with these protocols. Our church went form a few hundred to over 4000 with no mask, sanitizers or distancing. People sang together and hugged as usual. We sure had covid go through our church and no one died or was hospitalized using these condemned treatments. Our baptisms every month were a over 100 new souls added. You following these mandates out you in league with those who are bringing in the NWO and the WEF is open about this plan and objective. You are indeed on the wrong side of the fence when you look at their overall platform. It is a progressive litany of the very ideas you blame the futurist for letting take over.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The different views on end time events isn't an issue for me. Prophecy is like Jesus. It describes what had happened, this is the meaning of ' a time' it describes what is happening now, " two times" and it is yet to complete the end of history and enter eternity. " half a time". Eternity is the eternal moment in which all time and creation is present.
Concern for the time of the end events isn't a holy concern. It emerges from fear and need for control. Fear of the future prevents the believer from experiencing reality that is happening in the present.
I don't know if how I understand prophecy is mail futurist or preterest. It describes events that have happened, events happening, and have yet to be complete.

The Cassandra complex I believe is a symptom of the fragmented view and application of prophecy. Divination caters to worldly needs and desires. The misapplication of prophecy caters to the flesh as well. Addiction makes that evident. The many prophets so called who can't distinguish God's voice from their own. No one among the charismatic or anyone else who thinks prophecy is future only or past only understands the prophetic spirit. Not one understands that as we approach the end of things the prophetic spirit reveals the hidden past. At the beginning of things the knowing the future corrected the present. Now it's past things that correct the present. The affliction is a symptom of misapplication of prophecy

 

[eclipsenow]

you are siding with the directives and mandates largely paid for by Bill Gates who bought The WHO.

This is exactly the sort of judgemental attitude I'm talking about. And then you say...

There is a warning not to be deceived and a command to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together as you see the day approaching. ... You following these mandates out you in league with those who are bringing in the NWO and the WEF is open about this plan and objective. You are indeed on the wrong side of the fence when you look at their overall platform. It is a progressive litany of the very ideas you blame the futurist for letting take over.​

Why not just say I love the AntiChrist?
But here's the thing.
You don't know me.
You don't church with me.
You don't pray with me.
You haven't seen my years of service or my scripture teaching in schools or puppet shows or youth work. You don't have a CLUE about me.

All you know is you disagree with my Amillennialism.
So you JUMP DOWN MY THROAT and tell me who I'm "in league" with?
Nice! As I said in the OP...

But having a Cassandra Complex can have a particular mania, where the individual is the only one who ‘gets it’ and everyone else are the “Sheeple” - the sheep people just following the crowd. It can give them a sense of identity, of having a purpose and special mission that other people do not have. It often comes out with arrogant statements like “You’ll soon see” etc (only to suddenly disappear off this forum when the timetable expires.) Indeed - I’m quite appalled how many futurists talk down to me as if I’m almost not saved. They don’t think I’m honesty trying to understand the bible - I’m stubbornly refusing to read their ‘obvious verses’ and my stubbornness is a spiritual blindness! I mean, wow!

I hope and pray we can all move past this sort of superior and judgemental attitude to those we disagree with. If you see it in me, please remind me that futurists are my brothers and sisters in Christ!​

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

lol judgmental attitude? you judged the churches that defied the orders to shut down condemning them in your opinion and I am calling out those who shut down churches but left casinos open and wall marts. The same entities also opposed the freedom rallies of the Canadian truckers and then Canada actually shut down the bank accounts of people who donated to the truckers. This kind of total Orwellian control is what is behind the Covid and you merrily followed orders while men of courage and conviction stood and fought it all way to the Supreme Court and were victorious in the court too. You blame futurist for our problems and it is the futurists who are opposing the new world globalist agenda. The WEF has a training program for young leadership and Putin Merkle Marcon Trudeau and many many others are graduates of this. These guys have a total platform that integrates global control and this is coming at a rapid rate. Your playing the victim when you are called out and you have done more than your share of judging. I did address the topic that no Christian should feat any man or anything as we have these promises in Christ no matter what your eschatology. I have nothing in common with the schemes of the UN WEF and this will only get clearer as we move forward.

 

[eclipsenow]

lol judgmental attitude? you judged the churches that defied the orders to shut down condemning them in your opinion

I did point out how immoral that action was, yes.
Our church went online ASAP.
Indeed, the Archbishop of the Sydney Anglican denomination called out for all Anglicans to go online ASAP!

and I am calling out those who shut down churches but left casinos open and wall marts. The same entities also opposed the freedom rallies of the Canadian truckers and then Canada actually shut down the bank accounts of people who donated to the truckers. This kind of total Orwellian control is what is behind the Covid and you merrily followed orders while men of courage and conviction stood and fought it all way to the Supreme Court and were victorious in the court too.

You're mixing about 20 different narratives together there. I'm sorry you see the world this way.

You blame futurist for our problems and it is the futurists who are opposing the new world globalist agenda.

And yet they buy from Walmart, iphones with parts from China, etc. They're as much a part of any 'globalist agenda' as anyone - just not from a place of informed consent but more uninformed suspicion and paranoia.

The WEF has a training program for young leadership and Putin Merkle Marcon Trudeau and many many others are graduates of this.

And Revelation has chapters in it for when people are under persecuting governments, and also under times of abundance. Your point?

These guys have a total platform that integrates global control and this is coming at a rapid rate.

Ah, yeah, except there's this thing called the INVASION OF UKRAINE and I'll be happy if we someone manage to avoid pushing the big red button that says "Don't push this big red button."

How much 'integration' would that bring?

Your playing the victim

I think you meant you are = "you're".

when you are called out and you have done more than your share of judging.

I've admitted I'm no angel. But my 'judging' is more about off-topic subjects like Covid Denial. You seem to see it as part of some 'softening up' exercise preparing us for global control. Yep. That's futurism for you! It's paranoia all the way down. But there's an actual virus that actually kills people and it's against Christian Forum's rules to deny this. It actually makes sense and indeed is actually Christ-like to demonstrate love for neighbour by not only complying with public health authorities - but going further. Doing what you can to help people around you get vaccinated. Etc. Sadly, much of the American church has been RIDICULOUS about Covid, and Australian churches have winced in collective embarrassment and shrugged our shoulders about American paranoia.

I did address the topic that no Christian should feat any man

Yes, please don't 'feat' me.

I have nothing in common with the schemes of the UN WEF and this will only get clearer as we move forward.

And there it is again! "You'll see!"

Question: would you vote if there were global democratic governance structures? Here's the thing. Many futurists are sceptical about international agreements arranged in dirty deals done behind closed doors.

What if the UN became a democratic parliament?

What if we could VOTE on international issues?

 

[parousia70]

It says in 2 Thes 2 that when the man of sin is revealed in the Temple even the elect could be deceived if it were possible.

Correct.

In 70 AD no Christian was being remotely tempted to believe in the emperor.

Where is "the emporer" alluded to in that passage?

True, they were not tempted to believe in the emproer, they were, however, being tempted and drawn away by Judaizers, tempted to go back to the Temple, ordinances, etc... Paul is very clear that this was happening among his contemporaries and was to be avoided.

The entire book of Jude documents the then present "last days" arrival of the falling away that Paul said would come.

Many did indeed fall away, betray and hate one another in Christs generation. The Book of Jude is clear testimony to this fact.
To assert that this did not happen is false.

 

[parousia70]

Question: would you vote if there were global democratic governance structures?

I would WELCOME that.

Here's the thing. Many futurists are sceptical about international agreements arranged in dirty deals done behind closed doors.

What if the UN became a democratic parliament?

What if we could VOTE on international issues?

I have done some fascinating studies on the beginnings of the United states. The Colonies actually used to wage war against one another, for borders, water rights, etc.... it was only by adhearance to a federalized, DEMOCRATIC system that replaced the "law of force" with "the force of law" that brought peace between them.

Could you imagine if California sent troops into Oregon to secure waterways for California's use and forcfully change borders?
Unthinkable today, right? well, that's exactly what the Colonies like Maryland and Pennsylvania USED to do to one another.

If there is a dispute over water rights between California and Oregon, do they take up arms agains one another? No, they go to court.

Applying this experiment template globally, where Nation States, like America's different states, have different laws inside them from one another, BUT, adhear to an overarching set of "Federalized" Democratic laws that says disputes between those nation states must be resolved in court and not on the battlefield has exactly the same chance at success as the original American experiment had.

There is a great book called PLANETHOOD that provides a detailed roadmap for this, using the American experiment as a template.

If anyone argues that such a globalized Democratic system of laws would be immoral or unbiblical, then one is also arguing the American Democratic system is likewise Immoral and unbiblical.

 

[eclipsenow]

If anyone argues that such a globalized Democratic system of laws would be immoral or unbiblical, then one is also arguing the American Democratic system is likewise Immoral and unbiblical.

Exactly. I mean, look at Europe over the last century and now. People who were killing each other by the millions are now working together using the same currency. Gradually I think the Confederation of Federations that is the EU should Federate for more efficient, tax effective governance - but these things take time. What they have now in infinitely better, fairer, and more productive than just plain INVADING each other every generation or so!

I guess paranoia about ANY global governance mechanism is another side-effect of futurism.
(It's always the AntiChrist - except we've been hearing that for generations now! )

It's been a while since I've really thought about this topic though so I'm a little rusty.
Here's what I collected on my blog - but it's a few years old now.

Here's a great quote though.

“In my opinion the only salvation for civilisation and the human race lies in the creation of a world government, with security of nations founded upon law. As long as sovereign states continue to have separate armaments and armament secrets, new world wars will be inevitable.”
Albert Einstein

Reform World

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I would WELCOME that.



I have done some fascinating studies on the beginnings of the United states. The Colonies actually used to wage war against one another, for borders, water rights, etc.... it was only by adhearance to a federalized, DEMOCRATIC system that replaced the "law of force" with "the force of law" that brought peace between them.

Could you imagine if California sent troops into Oregon to secure waterways for California's use and forcfully change borders?
Unthinkable today, right? well, that's exactly what the Colonies like Maryland and Pennsylvania USED to do to one another.

If there is a dispute over water rights between California and Oregon, do they take up arms agains one another? No, they go to court.

Applying this experiment template globally, where Nation States, like America's different states, have different laws inside them from one another, BUT, adhear to an overarching set of "Federalized" Democratic laws that says disputes between those nation states must be resolved in court and not on the battlefield has exactly the same chance at success as the original American experiment had.

There is a great book called PLANETHOOD that provides a detailed roadmap for this, using the American experiment as a template.

If anyone argues that such a globalized Democratic system of laws would be immoral or unbiblical, then one is also arguing the American Democratic system is likewise Immoral and unbiblical.

Hi in theory your presentation has merit but in reality the UN and the philosophy behind the great reset and the UN earth charter and agenda 21 and 2030 goals is not based on the idea that our rights come form our creator. This is a huge fundamental difference and if you look closely at what comes out of the

I would WELCOME that.



I have done some fascinating studies on the beginnings of the United states. The Colonies actually used to wage war against one another, for borders, water rights, etc.... it was only by adhearance to a federalized, DEMOCRATIC system that replaced the "law of force" with "the force of law" that brought peace between them.

Could you imagine if California sent troops into Oregon to secure waterways for California's use and forcfully change borders?
Unthinkable today, right? well, that's exactly what the Colonies like Maryland and Pennsylvania USED to do to one another.

If there is a dispute over water rights between California and Oregon, do they take up arms agains one another? No, they go to court.

Applying this experiment template globally, where Nation States, like America's different states, have different laws inside them from one another, BUT, adhear to an overarching set of "Federalized" Democratic laws that says disputes between those nation states must be resolved in court and not on the battlefield has exactly the same chance at success as the original American experiment had.

There is a great book called PLANETHOOD that provides a detailed roadmap for this, using the American experiment as a template.

If anyone argues that such a globalized Democratic system of laws would be immoral or unbiblical, then one is also arguing the American Democratic system is likewise Immoral and unbiblical.

Hi theoretically your argument has merit. But practically the architects of what is being tempted now is not built on the same foundation of what ended up bringing the colonies together. Here is a short video of statements made by one of Clause Schwabb's top advisors and a familiar face at WEF meetings. This video will show that blasphemous nature of this attempted world government. Do you really want to unite the planet under a group who holds this philosophy?

 

[eclipsenow]

Meh. Go to his wiki and you'll see many peer-reviewed historians, not necessarily Christians themselves, get stuck into his other works. There will be the likes of Yuval in any global system. So what ?There will also be the likes of Sir John Houghton who chaired the UN IPCC, a Christian man that helped explain science to Christians and Christianity to scientists.