Can you prove it?

[Xeno.of.athens]

Some say that "The Great Commission" is addressed to Christians living today, in fact many say it and say also it was addressed to Christian in every age. The same goes for the Sermon on the mount. And for a great many of Jesus' sayings and lessons which were addressed to the apostles, or the disciples, or the Jews of his time, or the crowds of his time. Can you prove it? Why ought anyone take that perspective? And what about "apostolic succession", will you arguments justify or destroy belief in apostolic succession?

 

[Laodicean60]

If Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Wouldn't his word be?

 

[Soyeong]

In the Great Commission, Jesus Instructed his disciples to make disciples of all nations, teaching them everything that he taught, which includes the Great Commission, which is the essence of rabbi/disciple relationship, so it is self-perpetuating.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which he prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14), and which he commissioned his disciples with. Furthermore, spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to Gentiles in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, Genesis 26:4-5, and Deuteronomy 30:16, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that. In Psalms 119:1-3, God's law is how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law, which is spreading the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham.

In Galatians 3:26-29, it connects those who are children of God through faith in Christ with those who are children of Abraham and heirs to the promise, which again refers to those those who are spreading the Gospel of Kingdom that Jesus taught. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and in Matthew 23:23, Christ said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. So the Great Commission and the Sermon on the Mount were addressed to all those who are children of God in Christ through faith and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise. Apostolic succession should be rejected to the extent that it departs from spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

In the Great Commission, Jesus Instructed his disciples to make disciples of all nations, teaching them everything that he taught, which includes the Great Commission, which is the essence of rabbi/disciple relationship, so it is self-perpetuating.

Apostolic succession should be rejected to the extent that it departs from spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

I am confident that EO, OO, and Catholic Christians argue that apostolic succession is the very life blood of perpetuating the gospel across the generations and that it is at the heart of evangelisation.

 

[Divide]

Some say that "The Great Commission" is addressed to Christians living today, in fact many say it and say also it was addressed to Christian in every age. The same goes for the Sermon on the mount. And for a great many of Jesus' sayings and lessons which were addressed to the apostles, or the disciples, or the Jews of his time, or the crowds of his time. Can you prove it? Why ought anyone take that perspective? And what about "apostolic succession", will you arguments justify or destroy belief in apostolic succession?

I don't see it as an Apostolic succession, more along the lines of a Believers succession.

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.../KJV

1 Corinthians 12:
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.../KJV

All who are of the body of Christ have the same commission yet different jobs.

 

[d taylor]

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If there was apostolic succession, then they would be all Jewish. Also these apostles would be able to add to The Bible, with any new revelation from God

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

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If there was apostolic succession, then they would be all Jewish. Also these apostles would be able to add to The Bible, with any new revelation from God

With that kind of reasoning then all evangelism must be done by Jews. This is an absurdity. Why do you propose it in a serious discussion?

 

[HTacianas]

Some say that "The Great Commission" is addressed to Christians living today, in fact many say it and say also it was addressed to Christian in every age. The same goes for the Sermon on the mount. And for a great many of Jesus' sayings and lessons which were addressed to the apostles, or the disciples, or the Jews of his time, or the crowds of his time. Can you prove it? Why ought anyone take that perspective? And what about "apostolic succession", will you arguments justify or destroy belief in apostolic succession?

My beliefs strongly support apostolic succession and that the great commission was for the apostles.

 

[Fervent]

"The great commission" must be understood within the context of the narrative it is found in to understand its importance today. And within the context of that narrative its importance is not a matter of who the imperative commands to act, but who the message is to be carried to. The gospel of Matthew serves as an apologetic for why the suffering Christ is the fulfillment of Jewish messianic promises, and one of the themes of messianic thought was that the messiah was primarily a blessing for the jews themselves. This theme is reinforced in the course of Matthew's narrative where Jesus says things like being sent only for the lost sheep of Israel and restricting the preaching of his followers to Israel, even excluding Samaria. So what the great commission functions as is a reversal of that restriction, a command to bring the gospel message to the gentiles and bring them into the fold. The impetus for carrying that message today is not a function of the command in the narrative, though. That comes from the nature of the message itself and requires no command.

 

[d taylor]

With that kind of reasoning then all evangelism must be done by Jews. This is an absurdity. Why do you propose it in a serious discussion?

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Are you addressing in your posted thread, evangelism or apostles. Because to evangelize a believer does not have to be an apostle, they just have to be willing to tell people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[HTacianas]

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Are you addressing in your posted thread, evangelism or apostles. Because to evangelize a believer does not have to be an apostle, they just have to be willing to tell people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

So who is going to convey the Holy Spirit to them?

 

[d taylor]

So who is going to convey the Holy Spirit to them?

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God, at the very moment of belief in Jesus, the person who just believed, receives The Holy Spirit from God.

 

[HTacianas]

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God, at the very moment of belief in Jesus, the person who just believed, receives The Holy Spirit from God.

That isn't biblical, to borrow a phrase. In fact there is no account in the bible of that at all.

 

[d taylor]

That isn't biblical, to borrow a phrase. In fact there is no account in the bible of that at all.

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And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[chevyontheriver]

My beliefs strongly support apostolic succession and that the great commission was for the apostles.

Why, even with Apostolic Succession, would the Great Commission be for the Apostles alone?

(See what I did there? I up and created another 'sola' to go with 'sola Scriptura and the rest.)

 

[HTacianas]

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And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

They were marked with the seal of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of the apostles' hands. More on point is

Act 19:2 - he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

See also

Act 8:17 - Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit

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And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Why, even with Apostolic Succession, would the Great Commission be for the Apostles alone?

(See what I did there? I up and created another 'sola' to go with 'sola Scriptura and the rest.)

Sola speculative wishful thinking.

 

[Divide]

My beliefs strongly support apostolic succession and that the great commission was for the apostles.

So what are gentile believers supposed to do?

 

[HTacianas]

It has nothing to do with Jews or gentiles. Nearly all of the successors of the apostles today are gentiles.

But when you see a person claiming to be carrying out the great commission simply ask them how many people they've baptized.

 

[d taylor]

They were marked with the seal of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of the apostles' hands. More on point is

Act 19:2 - he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

See also

Act 8:17 - Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit



Sola speculative wishful thinking.

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Nothing in the verse i posted states these people receive The Holy Spirit, from laying on of hands. The verse plainly states When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[Divide]

But when you see a person claiming to be carrying out the great commission simply ask them how many people they've baptized.

Don't all Believers have a ministry? Everybody knows someone who hasnt come to the Lord. We are the church now. Our body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. But I'm retired and live alone so my ministry is around 3 people, lol. No regular meeting place, no collection plate but more prayers than usual.

Is Intercessory Prayer a part of the great commission? Question: If someone went to a Billy Graham Crusade and got saved...who gets the credit? Billy Graham or the girl's grandmother who has been praying for her for years?