Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

[jimbohank]

I can believe in the writings about Jesus within the bible. The entire bible is not about Jesus. And the old testament is pretty evident it is not intended for us.

Actually it is. I know it is hard to understand that, it took me decades of walking and seeking His Word to finally see that fact. But from the moment of creation through all eternity, it is about Yeshua.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

There is a bluegrass gospel song “If you don’t believe the Bible, then you don’t know the Lord.”

I suppose it is possible (but highly unlikely) for a person to have a bias against the Bible due to their early training, then hear the gospel and become a Christian. For awhile they might think they don’t believe in the Bible, but they do and just don’t realize it, for all the gospel of Jesus Christ is found there, as are the scriptures that Jesus Himself regarded as authoritative. If such a person were to read the Bible and get proper instruction and discipleship, they would easily come to believe it However, some call themselves Christians but are not, and these people disbelieve, diminish, and seek to revise the Bible.

While the Bible is not our only authority, it is our <i>first</i> authority until the Lord returns in glory, because it contains the words of Jesus Christ and the scriptures that He valued as authoritative (“it is written…”). While of course Jesus interpreted them correctly for the people, He always upheld their authority as He does clearly in Matthew 5:17-19.

As Dr. John R.W. Stott put it: "We take our stand on the divine origin of the Bible, because we believe the Bible itself requires us to do so. Indeed, it is a strange fact that theologians who are prepared to accept the biblical doctrine of God, of Christ, of the Holy Spirit, of man and of the church, are often not willing to accept the biblical doctrine of Scripture. But if the Bible is authoritative and accurate when speaking about other matters, there is no reason why it should not be equally so when speaking about itself.”

And what does Scripture say about itself? A great deal. Here are only two NT witnesses (among many):
Peter: “And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” (2 Peter 1:20-21, NIV)

Paul: “...the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16, NIV)

 

[Givemeareason]

Well, here's the bottom line. Whether or not you are correct about your views on the OT or the Bible overall, there's hardly a Christian church that sides with those views. Therefore, the discussion here may be worthwhile, but unless someone persuades you to change your views dramatically, the search for a church to join or attend narrows immediately to almost none. The Unitarian Universalist Association would be about the only one that you could join without compromising your conscience by pretending to believe certain doctrines that you actually do not.

I consider pretending to be or to believe something you are not to be highly immoral and highly un-Christian as well. And of what value is it to join a church where everyone believes something different. Where do we get a sense of belonging from that other than the commonality of just being human beings? I don't need a church in order to feel that.

 

[Cearbhall]

So if the old testament is simply not our primary source of guidance why do so many Christians seem to be using it that way?

The million-dollar question.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

There is a bluegrass gospel song “If you don’t believe the Bible, then you don’t know the Lord.”

I suppose it is possible (but highly unlikely) for a person to have a bias against the Bible due to their early training, then hear the gospel and become a Christian. For awhile they might think they don’t believe in the Bible, but they do and just don’t realize it, for all the gospel of Jesus Christ is found there, as are the scriptures that Jesus Himself regarded as authoritative. If such a person were to read the Bible and get proper instruction and discipleship, they would easily come to believe it. However, some call themselves Christians but are not, and these people disbelieve, diminish, and seek to revise the Bible.

While the Bible is not our only authority, it is our <i>first</i> authority until the Lord returns in glory, because it contains the words of Jesus Christ and the scriptures that He valued as authoritative (“it is written…”). While of course Jesus interpreted them correctly for the people, He always upheld their authority as He does clearly in Matthew 5:17-19.

As Dr. John R.W. Stott put it: "We take our stand on the divine origin of the Bible, because we believe the Bible itself requires us to do so. Indeed, it is a strange fact that theologians who are prepared to accept the biblical doctrine of God, of Christ, of the Holy Spirit, of man and of the church, are often not willing to accept the biblical doctrine of Scripture. But if the Bible is authoritative and accurate when speaking about other matters, there is no reason why it should not be equally so when speaking about itself.”

And what does Scripture say about itself? A great deal. Here are only two NT witnesses (among many):
Peter: “And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” (2 Peter 1:20-21, NIV)

Paul: “...the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16, NIV)

 

[Givemeareason]

IMO, the labeling of others by Christians is likely driven from their own insecurity of their own faith beliefs. If someone believes differently then them, they see it as a threat, that needs to be warded off, with a label.

If there is a God, maybe this God doesn't doesn't care too much about people telling others, what they are and what they aren't.

But that's not just true of Christians. That is true of nearly everyone.

 

[jimbohank]

Hmmmmm. Maybe you're missing this.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

What were His commandments?

 

[Albion]

I consider pretending to be or to believe something you are not to be highly immoral and highly un-Christian as well.

That's what I thought. And that's why the churches that could be considered by you are few.

There are people, of course, who hold strong opinions at odds with what the church they belong to says they are expected to believe...yet they just blow it off and stay a member because they like something else about that church. I didn't figure you for that kind of hypocrisy.

And of what value is it to join a church where everyone believes something different. Where do we get a sense of belonging from that other than the commonality of just being human beings? I don't need a church in order to feel that.

Not to feel that, no. But there are other reasons for having a church identity, and you did ask....

 

[1213]

Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

I think you could, because Christian can be defined many ways.

However I think it is good to notice that Christian was originally epithet for disciples of Jesus. I want to say this, because Christian is not well defined in the Bible, but disciple of Jesus is. The definition is basically this:

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

So, if you remain in words of Jesus, you can be his disciple. If you don’t believe in the Bible, then that definition is not valid for you. And then the whole idea about being disciple of Jesus without the Bible sound impossible.

But remaining in words of Jesus doesn’t necessary mean that you believe all, because:

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48

...So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. ...

I believe Jesus was speaking to all of his disciples. And I think it is good to understand that although Law is valid and tells correctly what is wrong and right, it is not condition for eternal life, because person can enter into Kingdom of Heaven, even if he has not done all perfectly according to the Law.

"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

And I think all disciples of Jesus become Jews by this definition:

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:28-29

 

[Givemeareason]

That's what I thought. And that's why the churches that could be considered by you are few.

There are people, of course, who hold strong opinions at odds with what the church they belong to says they are expected to believe...yet they just blow it off and stay a member because they like something else about that church. I didn't figure you for that kind of hypocrisy.


Not to feel that, no. But there are other reasons for having a church identity, and you did ask....

I suppose I could make friends and encounter people to exchange views but this seems like such a better place for that. Mind to mind is sometimes so much better than face to face.

 

[Colter]

Not really totally disagreeing with you on these two factoids. Just saying that Paul was "ordained" by Jesus (after His death, burial, and resurrection - indeed proving His authority as well as redeeming those who trust in Him) to preach the Gospel to all men. And, therefore, Paul's teachings, his writings, are an authoritative (inspired by God) continuation of what Jesus taught; and not a new innovation or a new gospel from Paul in or of himself. Even Peter agreed with this -

2 Peter 3:14-17 – NASB - Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.​

Jesus chose 12 men, they preached his original gospel of the kingdom for 3 years, that gospel wasn't "Christ and Him crucified". He instructed those 12-1 to go then into all the world and preach that gospel, then he left. The natural evolutionary nature of religion began to take place almost immediately with the coming of the holy spirit and the enthusiasm of the resurrection and ascension AND the erroneous belief that Jesus would "soon return".

Paul's writings and letters (some are in dispute) may be authoritative to the church that Paul founded, but as a disciple of Jesus it's Jesus who is my authority.

Paul, never having been taught by Jesus taught the gospel as he understood it from Peter. Paul was a man, not a divine man, not the Son of God.

 

[Albion]

I think you could, because Christian can be defined many ways.

As you worded that, I have to agree. The word isn't copywritten. It isn't patented. There is no law against calling oneself a Christian, even if you don't believe anything that the world and history associate with Christianity. One wonders what is to be gained by doing that, but it's possible.

 

[Albion]

I suppose I could make friends and encounter people to exchange views but this seems like such a better place for that. Mind to mind is sometimes so much better than face to face.

OK, but you don't have to define yourself in any particular way or by any special religious term in order to discuss things here.

 

[Givemeareason]

OK, but you don't have to define yourself in any particular way or by any special religious term in order to discuss things here.

True but it certainly helps others to understand where you are coming from. And I feel so good in being here and not having the door slammed in my face as I have sometimes done to others.

 

[Winken]

Since I love Jesus and would like to follow him, I will decide how I want to do so amongst all the denominational choices I have. Look at the mormons, they even have another book. And look at other protestants who have taken nine books back out of the original bible. I am not interested in disagreements amongst denominations. I cannot see why I cannot be a Christian just as I am.

Personally, one of your first moves would be to remove your chosen logo. Then, to seal your newly emerging faith, without making an effort to understand the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament), read John 3:3, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, John 14:6, and Romans 10:8-13. If you sincerly do the latter, you've hit a home run. Open your Bible to the writings of the Apostle Paul. Review his call to the ministry in Acts 9.

Blessings!!!
p.s. You will probably find yourself in a non-denominational environment, but avoid an assembly where they speak in tongues and conduct faith healings, or make extraordinary promises about health and wealth.

 

[1213]

What were His commandments?

I hope you don't mind if I answer.

The Laws are basically in these two:

Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. A second likewise is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat. 22:37-39

And as already said, keeping God’s commandments is same as loving him. So, love others as yourself and you don’t do well.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

Love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

 

[WhitherWhist]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

Don't even bother with denominations, they are all built on the teachings of man, not the teachings of Christ.
Studying Christ's teachings and following them is the best way to learn how to be a Christian.
Start with a NT, read it, especially the words of Christ, discuss it, live it. Take all the stuff in the epistles with a grain of salt and note the number of times Paul speak from their own prejudices and not from the words of Christ. In that way, you will become a true follower of the teachings of Christ.

 

[WhitherWhist]

I hope you don't mind if I answer.

The Laws are basically in these two:

Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. A second likewise is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat. 22:37-39

And as already said, keeping God’s commandments is same as loving him. So, love others as yourself and you don’t do well.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

And you can boil those down even further into "Be kind to one another."

 

[Givemeareason]

Personally, one of your first moves would be to remove your chosen logo. Then, to seal your newly emerging faith, without making an effort to understand the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament), read John 3:3, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, John 14:6, and Romans 10:8-13. If you sincerly do the latter, you've hit a home run. Open your Bible to the writings of the Apostle Paul. Review his call to the ministry in Acts 9.

Blessings!!!
p.s. You will probably find yourself in a non-denominational environment, but avoid an assembly where they speak in tongues and conduct faith healings, or make extraordinary promises about health and wealth.

Good point. So can I be athiest and still be christian? Is it really all about believing or could it really be just about following?

 

[paulhubert]

I am an athiest but I do not hate christians. Do you think Athiests are evil?

Givemeareason,

You SAY you ARE an Atheist but have decided to follow Jesus? That is a bit contradictory. But let me say that 'following His teachings' without coming to belong TO Him in faith is really entirely pointless and useless.

I was just reminded of a resource I never used myself, but is nevertheless a thorough one - Josh McDowell's books "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" and "New Evidence that Demands a Verdict" - though I don't know that I believe that ARGUMENT will lead anyone to Jesus.

Actually following Jesus means giving ourselves to Him completely. Nothing else IS following Him.

My recommendation is that you be willing to begin and PURPOSE to SEEK God in prayer before anything else. I had first thought you meant you were in fact coming to faith - I see that is apparently not the case.

Remember that "Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God".

Paul

A link to McDowell on Facebook is here if you choose to pursue it: https://www.facebook.com/jmministry?fref=nf