C. S. Lewis on the Garden of Eden

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hithesh

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"For long centuries God perfected the animal form which was to become the vehicle
of humanity and the image of Himself. He gave it hands whose thumb could be applied
to each of the fingers, and jaws and teeth and throat capable of articulation, and a brain
sufficiently complex to execute all the material motions whereby rational thought is incarnated.
The creature may have existed for ages in this state before it became man: it may even have
been clever enough to make things which a modern archaeologist would accept as proof of its humanity.
But it was only an animal because all its physical and psychical processes were directed to purely
material and natural ends. Then, in the fullness of time, God caused to descend upon this organism,
both on its psychology and physiology, a new kind of consciousness which could say "I" and "me,"
which could look upon itself as an object, which knew God, which could make judgments of truth,
beauty, and goodness, and which was so far above time that it could perceive time flowing past....

We do not know how many of these creatures God made, nor how long they continued in the Paradisal state.
But sooner or later they fell. Someone or something whispered that they could become as gods...

They wanted some corner in the universe of which they could say to God, 'This is our business, not yours.'
But there is no such corner. They wanted to be nouns, but they were, and eternally must be, mere adjectives.
We have no idea in what particular act, or series of acts, the self-contradictory, impossible wish found expression.
For all I can see, it might have concerned the literal eating of a fruit, but the quesion is of no consequence."

~C. S Lewis from "The Problem of Pain"
 

kevin36

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I've only read a little Lewis, and I hadn't seen this before now. It's certainly interesting, if flawed.

The problem with his claiming that God perfected some animal to be human over many long ages is with how Genesis is written.

By the style of the time, when a writer said that there was a evening and a morning, and gives it a time frame, it means one literal day, not some allegorical "day" that evolutionists say "could have been thousands or even millions of years". Sorry.

God Bless
Kevin
 
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Assyrian

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By the style of the time, when a writer said that there was a evening and a morning, and gives it a time frame, it means one literal day, not some allegorical "day"
Hate to tell you this but the people you got that from made it up.

Zeph 3:3 Her officials within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves that leave nothing till the morning. This mentions evening and morning, we have a time frame from the evening when the wolves start to devour their prey to the morning when nothing is left. So are the wolves literal or allegorical?

Psalm 90:5 You sweep them away as with a flood; they are like a dream, like grass that is renewed in the morning:
6 in the morning it flourishes and is renewed; in the evening it fades and withers. Do we really live just one day, springing up in the morning and gone by evening?

Days in the bible can be figurative. So can evening and morning. There is nothing in 'the style of the time' that says if you put the two together it has to be literal.

Remember this?
Matt 20:1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 and to them he said, 'You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.'
5 So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, 'Why do you stand here idle all day?'
7 They said to him, 'Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard too.'
8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.'
9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius.
10 Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius.
11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house,
12 saying, 'These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.'
13 But he replied to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
14 Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you.
15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?'
16 So the last will be first, and the first last."

Do all the references to morning, and evening, the hour it was at different times and the amount they agree for a day's wage mean the story was literal?
 
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kevin36

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Not the same thing.

"And there was evening, and there was morning- the first day." is differant than taking allegorical referances spread throughout a verse or verses to gather all the necessary words. My example is one continuous referance to one item, while yours is several seperate items of description, each describing something diffeant.

Kevin
 
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Assyrian

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I have given you a range of uses from compact with evening and morning in one small section, to a parable where morning and evening are at opposite ends with a running time check in between. There is nothing in the use of evening and morning that say a passage has to be literal. People have simply made up this 'rule' about evening and morning to fit their beliefs about Genesis.
 
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gluadys

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I've only read a little Lewis, and I hadn't seen this before now. It's certainly interesting, if flawed.

The problem with his claiming that God perfected some animal to be human over many long ages is with how Genesis is written.

By the style of the time, when a writer said that there was a evening and a morning, and gives it a time frame, it means one literal day, not some allegorical "day" that evolutionists say "could have been thousands or even millions of years". Sorry.

God Bless
Kevin

Even if we take a strictly "plain sense" reading of "day" in the Genesis story, it is still a day in a story. Nothing requires it to be a literal account of the history of creation.
 
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kevin36

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I have given you a range of uses from compact with evening and morning in one small section, to a parable where morning and evening are at opposite ends with a running time check in between. There is nothing in the use of evening and morning that say a passage has to be literal. People have simply made up this 'rule' about evening and morning to fit their beliefs about Genesis.

You did? Huh... Go figure.

Somebody made up the "one day" thing... They did? Huh...

I guess you're right- people will believe what they will about Genesis and the creation account no matter what anybody else says.

Go figure.

Kevin
 
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mark kennedy

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Hate to tell you this but the people you got that from made it up.

What exactly are you saying here?

Do all the references to morning, and evening, the hour it was at different times and the amount they agree for a day's wage mean the story was literal?[/SIZE]

Does the fact that it is a parable mean it didn't happen?
 
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Assyrian

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What exactly are you saying here?
kevin36 claimed: By the style of the time, when a writer said that there was a evening and a morning, and gives it a time frame, it means one literal day. I very much doubt he made that up himself, so where did he get the idea from? Is there any basis in ANE literature to say the combination of evening, morning and a timeframe was a style that meant the text is literal?
Does the fact that it is a parable mean it didn't happen?
Probably. It certainly means parables can be stories with morning, evening and timeframes included.

I am pretty sure Zephaniah did not mean Jerusalem had literal wolves as judges, though they would be good at sniffing out which priest was snacking on bacon butties.
 
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