Discussion Blasphemy of the Spirit- How to make sure you do not commit it

[Gideons300]

1. This is an oft misunderstood part of scripture and many have worried and feared needlessly that they may have committed it. I pray these words drive the fear away and fill hearts with peace. And for those on the path that may lead to it, may they find the path of escape the Lord offers us all. So let's discuss blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
   
   The facts are clearly stated in scripture. There is indeed one sin that cannot be forgiven. For those espousing the belief that once you are born again by saying the sinners prayer and asking Jesus into your heart, no sin we may commit thereafter that is not repented of can in any way affect our salvation. Not child abuse, not rape, not murder. No, brothers and sisters. the fact is, if there is one sin that can cause a man to not be forgiven by the Lord and subsequently lose their salvation, and because of that, the entire OSAS argument that such a thing is impossible crumbles in a heap under the light of scriptural truth.
   
   The question is then....what is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
   
   I have heard many things people think that it is. Some say it is dabbling in witchcraft. Others say it is taking the Lord's name in vain, or committing adultery. I believe it is far from any of that.
   
   What is one of the primary purposes of the Holy Spirit in our walk? Is it not conviction when we wander from the truth or dabble in sins of the flesh? And if that conviction does not work, and we hard heartedly continue to live to ourselves, and sow to the flesh, Our God through the in dwelling Spirit promises to correct us through chastening, correct? God's ultimate goal for us is to transform us into the likeness of Christ, so through real grace, He instructs us in righteousness, amen? So if we know areas of our life are sinful in God's eyes, and yet find no discernible chastening, that is a bad sign indeed, for it is guaranteed that if we are walking as God's own, He WILL chasten those He loves, because He is a good father.
   
   We are warned to harden not our hearts through the deceit fullness of sin. God said that if He delivered His children, the Israelites, out of the fleshpots of Egypt, and yet they still turned back from the way of truth, we are to learn the lesson He has offered us. He will not spare us either if we know the way of truth and turn from it. It is not our "sins" that can cause us to lose salvation. It is one sin....blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
   
   You see, Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. If our hearts become hardened by continuing in unrepented of willful sin and love of self rule, rather than letting God through the Spirit deliver us from the fleshly nature and change us, freeing us from the power of darkness, what happens to the faith He has given us? It becomes ship wrecked. And when faith finally dies, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has finally happened.
   
   This is why He warns us against turning back in rebellion to His leading and Hos loving correction. This is why there are over 20 different places in new covenant scripture with clear warnings as to the one condition of our continued salvation.... continue to listen and follow and obey the Holy Spirit for that is God in us, leading us to glory. Our job is simply to follow and obey.
   
   Look, Our salvation cannot be erased by one sin! however vile. Forgiveness is there for any who turn from their sin and cry out to the Lord. Praise God, He know our human weakness, and knows we all can slip if we let our shield down and do not watch for the enemy who longs to deceive us. But you see, blasphemy of the Spirit is not a one time occurrence. It happens after we repeatedly reject the many attempts by our dear Father to bring us back to a repentant, soft and pliable condition, for that is a heart tha can truly believe. So if anyone here feels like you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and you fear there is no hope, that very fear assures you that you have not!
   
   But sadly, there will be those who refuse the Spirit's pricks of our conscience. And with these poor deceived ones, when the chastening comes, heels are dug in as men cling to their prideful boast that they have their spot reserved in Heaven and no man can take it from them. They say no man can remove them from God's hand, repentance or not. But they forget one thing. No OTHER man can kill our faith whereby Jesus dwells in our hearts. BUT WE CAN.
   
   You see, the wheat and the tares have grown together in the church ever since the grievous wolves came in, sparing not the flock after Paul's death. The church lost the purity God preserved when Ananias and Saphira were removed from the early church for their self love and self promotion. The early rain finally ended and a long drought ensued. There has been just enough rain over the last 1900 years to keep the truth alive. But guys, we are now entering the last of the last days and the first drops of the latter rain are beginning to fall. The wheat and the tares are about to be separated. All the virgins are awakening through the Holy Spirit to God's call to righteousness, to flee all darkness, to walk in the light as He is in the light, but not all the virgins will inherit the kingdom. Do we get that?
   
   The wheat, weak as they are, but wanting to walk pleasing to God, fall before Him and ask to be changed as we heed the warnings against living for self, and dallying with willful sin. The tares however resist God in their hearts, determined to have their cake and eat it too. Oh, they will still draw near Him with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him. They refuse to repent, ignoring large portions of scriptures given for our admonition and our correction while they wrap themselves in carefully selected scriptures that allow them to assure their own hearts that all is well, when it is anything but.
   
   Have we ever wondered who those people are who will waltz into the judgment, totally confident they are about to be rewarded with eternal life, only to find out that they made THE mistake of all eternity? Do we somehow think that they did not say the prayer correctly, or did not have the seed actually sprout in their heart? Are we so blind? These people had cast out demons for goodness sake. These were not nominal go-through-the-motions people who thought they were good people and went to church so all must be well. These poor deceived (remember, continued willful sin deceives) people simply refused to bow the knee to God and let Him rule, lead, transform and deliver, setting them free indeed, which is the very reason He came. There was no longing deep inside them to be delivered from the wretched old nature spoken of in Romans 7. The desire for a holy nature was absent. Losing their life to find His was to them religious extremism, and almost cultish talk. Oh, they were active in church, and knew their Bibles. Outwardly they were quite christian. They just were not Christians, and enduring to the end was not seen as a necessity, for they were convinced that their one time prayer did the trick. Their goal was never pleasing God in all things but to simply get into Heaven, even if by the skin of their teeth. I pray for all who read this. I beg you in Christ"s name, do not harden you hearts to the corrections God lovingly gives us all. Let us remember the story of the man who made no gain with what He had been entrusted while his master was away. He was given something of great value and what happened in the end? The master said "Take back that which was given to him and give it to another." Would God actually do such a drastic thing? Yes.
2. 
   For those espousing the lie that once we are saved we can do as we I'll and still make our eternal abode in Heaven, you are right. No one else can rob us of our inheritance. But if we persist in rejecting the proddings and the corrections given to us by the Spirit within us, if we continue to ignore the many warnings in His Word, if we refuse to let the Lord rule and reign in our hearts by our desire to follow and obey Him, leading us into all truth, then there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful looking for of judgment.
   
   If we read the warning parable of the men given talents of gold to do the master's work for the His glory, and instead live for ourselves, yet still expect God to welcome us with a ticker tape parade on that final day, we will find to our utter horror that the deceiver won the battle of our hearts. And the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth will begin.
   
   I pray you believe me. This is life and death.... the eternal kind. And if we read that parable in Luke 19, after the gift God had given to His rebellious servant was taken away, I pray we take to heart the words the Master said.
   
   "Then bring all those who would not have me to reign over them, and slay them before me."
   
   May the eternal weight of these sobering words pierce through our hearts that have been hardened by our unbelief, self rule and self love. May tears replace our staunch pride, for God is for us, but He will not always strive with us to center ourselves on the potters wheel so that He can then set us free indeed just as He promised. There will never be an easier day to break before God and turn from the path we have all been guilty of treading upon. They that sow in tears WILL reap in joy. I so pray that our choice is to yield to our God, crying out for Him to deliver us from the one person who CAN cause us to lose our salvation.
   
   US.
   
   Blessings to all,
   
   Gideon
   
   

 

[theniceiceman]

I agree with you to an extent. I think it does indeed have to do with the condition of our hearts, but not so much in regards to sin. I think it has to do with accepting Christ as the Messiah, Savior and Lord. After all, the Pharisees to whom Jesus spoke the words didn't have the Holy Spirit living inside them, chastening them, leading them. He wasn't living in them FOR them to quench or grieve. Other than a few rare occasions, the Holy Spirit didn't live inside of people until Pentecost (and even before Pentecost he didn't 'live' in people; he just entered into them).

It is true that the Holy Spirit's job is to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and God's judgment, but I always thought that was more referring to making people recognize their need for Jesus. Personally, I don't believe that Christians can blaspheme the Spirit--just quench and grieve him. We're told that believers are 'sealed' with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Back then, the people obeyed the law, not the prodding of the Holy Spirit (by which Jesus performed his miracles). So why would Jesus warn them about something that they couldn't even do at that time?

Again, I agree that it has to do with a person's heart. I just think this particular sin only refers to the sin (and state) of unbelief.

 

[AGTG]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a very specific sin that could only be committed by the religious authorities who rejected Jesus at His first coming.

There's a reason why Paul says, "Jews seek for a sign."

In Exodus, when Moses (a clear foreshadow of Christ as redeemer) is sent with the mandate to lead the people out of Egypt, God gives him multiple supernatural signs so the people would believe that God truly sent him to lead them.

This established means to show when God sends someone to His people is seen again and again in the prophets throughout the Old Testament. Everyone within Jewish culture recognized this was one of the ways God proved a man was on a mission from God.

The Pharisees, and everyone else in the first century, knew this well.

This is why Jesus said, "If you don't believe me, at least believe the signs."

But the Pharisees were so bent on holding fast to their authority, they were in a clear pickle. Or shall I say, they were stuck between a Rock and a hard place (pardon the pun).

They either had to accept Jesus was the Messiah, recognizing the signs He performed were of God, and give up their status and authority and repent of all the wicked things Jesus called them out on, or they had to attribute the signs to the work of the devil and reject Him completely.

They chose the latter, and that is the unforgiveable sin.

This is not something that the average Christian can do today because gentiles don't have the same relationship that the Jews of Jesus' day did. We walk by faith, not by sight.

Though certainly the shepherds who have failed the flock will clearly be held to high account as the prophets of the Old Testament clearly prophesied of our age.

 

[jiminpa]

I disagree with you to an extent Gids. Yes, I agree with your main point, as always, that the say the magic prayer and live like Hell but still go to eternity with God is a lie. I disagree with what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is.

It's really simple. Blasphemy: speaking against God, Holy Spirit: Holy Spirit. That's it. It means exactly what it says. The reason why I am so adamant about taking this so literally is because of its implications. It's not some great mystery, and the reformation nearly requires it. It's crucial to get that because so many reformed theology people and cessationists have no fear of calling the Holly Spirit of the Bible, a demon, and it should terrify them, but it doesn't. Oh, and these people running around here shouting Kunta Kinte at everything that happens in church that they don't like maybe ought be a little terrified too.

 

[theniceiceman]

I disagree with you to an extent Gids. Yes, I agree with your main point, as always, that the say the magic prayer and live like Hell but still go to eternity with God is a lie. I disagree with what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is.

It's really simple. Blasphemy: speaking against God, Holy Spirit: Holy Spirit. That's it. It means exactly what it says. The reason why I am so adamant about taking this so literally is because of its implications. It's not some great mystery, and the reformation nearly requires it. It's crucial to get that because so many reformed theology people and cessationists have no fear of calling the Holly Spirit of the Bible, a demon, and it should terrify them, but it doesn't. Oh, and these people running around here shouting Kunta Kinte at everything that happens in church that they don't like maybe ought be a little terrified too.

I agree that we should advise people to be careful about what they say regarding spiritual gifts/what could very be the Holy Spirit's work in a person's life. However, I truly don't believe that God would refuse to forgive someone because of something they said out of ignorance. I think this sin is really more heart-centered than it is what you actually say, considering only a verse or two later Jesus added, 'Out of the heart, the mouth speaks.'

 

[jiminpa]

I agree that we should advise people to be careful about what they say regarding spiritual gifts/what could very be the Holy Spirit's work in a person's life. However, I truly don't believe that God would refuse to forgive someone because of something they said out of ignorance. I think this sin is really more heart-centered than it is what you actually say, considering only a verse or two later Jesus added, 'Out of the heart, the mouth speaks.'

Okay, so first someone hates the things of God in his heart and then he speaks against God's Spirit with his mouth. The blasphemous words reveal a blasphemous heart. I don't know if there is a qualifier or not. The verses don't indicate any, but God is patient and merciful. The thing is that there is a definite religious attitude that has no problem declaring God's Spirit demonic, and the hatred for God is usually already quite evident by the time the words are uttered.

 

[theniceiceman]

.

 

[theniceiceman]

Okay, so first someone hates the things of God in his heart and then he speaks against God's Spirit with his mouth. The blasphemous words reveal a blasphemous heart. I don't know if there is a qualifier or not. The verses don't indicate any, but God is patient and merciful. The thing is that there is a definite religious attitude that has no problem declaring God's Spirit demonic, and the hatred for God is usually already quite evident by the time the words are uttered.

That's very true. I would say it's only in rare cases that someone would say something against God's spirit (if they have a mental illness, are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or they just don't understand what they're doing, like a little kid who says curse words just for the sake of seeing how it feels.) I really think this is a sin that can't/won't be forgiven mostly because the person won't ask forgiveness for it because, like you said, hatred for God is usually the case for anyone speaking such things.

I freaked out that I had committed this sin, and this verse more than any other (except maybe 1 John 1:9 or Micah 7:18) brought me comfort: Jonah 4:2, 'He prayed to the Lord and said, “O Lord, is this not what I said You would do while still in my own country? That is why I ran away to Tarshish. For I knew that You are a kind and loving God Who shows pity. I knew that You are slow to anger and are filled with loving-kindness, always ready to change Your mind and not punish.'

The Bible is filled with examples of God declaring punishment or a refusal to forgive somebody, but then they come to Him begging and pleading for mercy and forgiveness and God grants it--He delights in it! Thank You, God!

 

[Si_monfaith]

Christ lives in us & not we. So how wud osas crumble. Salvation is lost only for those who believe that it is they & not Christ who lives.

1. This is an oft misunderstood part of scripture and many have worried and feared needlessly that they may have committed it. I pray these words drive the fear away and fill hearts with peace. And for those on the path that may lead to it, may they find the path of escape the Lord offers us all. So let's discuss blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
   
   The facts are clearly stated in scripture. There is indeed one sin that cannot be forgiven. For those espousing the belief that once you are born again by saying the sinners prayer and asking Jesus into your heart, no sin we may commit thereafter that is not repented of can in any way affect our salvation. Not child abuse, not rape, not murder. No, brothers and sisters. the fact is, if there is one sin that can cause a man to not be forgiven by the Lord and subsequently lose their salvation, and because of that, the entire OSAS argument that such a thing is impossible crumbles in a heap under the light of scriptural truth.
   
   The question is then....what is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
   
   I have heard many things people think that it is. Some say it is dabbling in witchcraft. Others say it is taking the Lord's name in vain, or committing adultery. I believe it is far from any of that.
   
   What is one of the primary purposes of the Holy Spirit in our walk? Is it not conviction when we wander from the truth or dabble in sins of the flesh? And if that conviction does not work, and we hard heartedly continue to live to ourselves, and sow to the flesh, Our God through the in dwelling Spirit promises to correct us through chastening, correct? God's ultimate goal for us is to transform us into the likeness of Christ, so through real grace, He instructs us in righteousness, amen? So if we know areas of our life are sinful in God's eyes, and yet find no discernible chastening, that is a bad sign indeed, for it is guaranteed that if we are walking as God's own, He WILL chasten those He loves, because He is a good father.
   
   We are warned to harden not our hearts through the deceit fullness of sin. God said that if He delivered His children, the Israelites, out of the fleshpots of Egypt, and yet they still turned back from the way of truth, we are to learn the lesson He has offered us. He will not spare us either if we know the way of truth and turn from it. It is not our "sins" that can cause us to lose salvation. It is one sin....blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
   
   You see, Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. If our hearts become hardened by continuing in unrepented of willful sin and love of self rule, rather than letting God through the Spirit deliver us from the fleshly nature and change us, freeing us from the power of darkness, what happens to the faith He has given us? It becomes ship wrecked. And when faith finally dies, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has finally happened.
   
   This is why He warns us against turning back in rebellion to His leading and Hos loving correction. This is why there are over 20 different places in new covenant scripture with clear warnings as to the one condition of our continued salvation.... continue to listen and follow and obey the Holy Spirit for that is God in us, leading us to glory. Our job is simply to follow and obey.
   
   Look, Our salvation cannot be erased by one sin! however vile. Forgiveness is there for any who turn from their sin and cry out to the Lord. Praise God, He know our human weakness, and knows we all can slip if we let our shield down and do not watch for the enemy who longs to deceive us. But you see, blasphemy of the Spirit is not a one time occurrence. It happens after we repeatedly reject the many attempts by our dear Father to bring us back to a repentant, soft and pliable condition, for that is a heart tha can truly believe. So if anyone here feels like you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and you fear there is no hope, that very fear assures you that you have not!
   
   But sadly, there will be those who refuse the Spirit's pricks of our conscience. And with these poor deceived ones, when the chastening comes, heels are dug in as men cling to their prideful boast that they have their spot reserved in Heaven and no man can take it from them. They say no man can remove them from God's hand, repentance or not. But they forget one thing. No OTHER man can kill our faith whereby Jesus dwells in our hearts. BUT WE CAN.
   
   You see, the wheat and the tares have grown together in the church ever since the grievous wolves came in, sparing not the flock after Paul's death. The church lost the purity God preserved when Ananias and Saphira were removed from the early church for their self love and self promotion. The early rain finally ended and a long drought ensued. There has been just enough rain over the last 1900 years to keep the truth alive. But guys, we are now entering the last of the last days and the first drops of the latter rain are beginning to fall. The wheat and the tares are about to be separated. All the virgins are awakening through the Holy Spirit to God's call to righteousness, to flee all darkness, to walk in the light as He is in the light, but not all the virgins will inherit the kingdom. Do we get that?
   
   The wheat, weak as they are, but wanting to walk pleasing to God, fall before Him and ask to be changed as we heed the warnings against living for self, and dallying with willful sin. The tares however resist God in their hearts, determined to have their cake and eat it too. Oh, they will still draw near Him with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him. They refuse to repent, ignoring large portions of scriptures given for our admonition and our correction while they wrap themselves in carefully selected scriptures that allow them to assure their own hearts that all is well, when it is anything but.
   
   Have we ever wondered who those people are who will waltz into the judgment, totally confident they are about to be rewarded with eternal life, only to find out that they made THE mistake of all eternity? Do we somehow think that they did not say the prayer correctly, or did not have the seed actually sprout in their heart? Are we so blind? These people had cast out demons for goodness sake. These were not nominal go-through-the-motions people who thought they were good people and went to church so all must be well. These poor deceived (remember, continued willful sin deceives) people simply refused to bow the knee to God and let Him rule, lead, transform and deliver, setting them free indeed, which is the very reason He came. There was no longing deep inside them to be delivered from the wretched old nature spoken of in Romans 7. The desire for a holy nature was absent. Losing their life to find His was to them religious extremism, and almost cultish talk. Oh, they were active in church, and knew their Bibles. Outwardly they were quite christian. They just were not Christians, and enduring to the end was not seen as a necessity, for they were convinced that their one time prayer did the trick. Their goal was never pleasing God in all things but to simply get into Heaven, even if by the skin of their teeth. I pray for all who read this. I beg you in Christ"s name, do not harden you hearts to the corrections God lovingly gives us all. Let us remember the story of the man who made no gain with what He had been entrusted while his master was away. He was given something of great value and what happened in the end? The master said "Take back that which was given to him and give it to another." Would God actually do such a drastic thing? Yes.
2. 
   For those espousing the lie that once we are saved we can do as we I'll and still make our eternal abode in Heaven, you are right. No one else can rob us of our inheritance. But if we persist in rejecting the proddings and the corrections given to us by the Spirit within us, if we continue to ignore the many warnings in His Word, if we refuse to let the Lord rule and reign in our hearts by our desire to follow and obey Him, leading us into all truth, then there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful looking for of judgment.
   
   If we read the warning parable of the men given talents of gold to do the master's work for the His glory, and instead live for ourselves, yet still expect God to welcome us with a ticker tape parade on that final day, we will find to our utter horror that the deceiver won the battle of our hearts. And the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth will begin.
   
   I pray you believe me. This is life and death.... the eternal kind. And if we read that parable in Luke 19, after the gift God had given to His rebellious servant was taken away, I pray we take to heart the words the Master said.
   
   "Then bring all those who would not have me to reign over them, and slay them before me."
   
   May the eternal weight of these sobering words pierce through our hearts that have been hardened by our unbelief, self rule and self love. May tears replace our staunch pride, for God is for us, but He will not always strive with us to center ourselves on the potters wheel so that He can then set us free indeed just as He promised. There will never be an easier day to break before God and turn from the path we have all been guilty of treading upon. They that sow in tears WILL reap in joy. I so pray that our choice is to yield to our God, crying out for Him to deliver us from the one person who CAN cause us to lose our salvation.
   
   US.
   
   Blessings to all,
   
   Gideon
   

 

[Blade]

Praise GOD and all glory to Jesus.. hi Gideons300
Hmm I've heard some say.. to say NO to Jesus.. this will not be forgiven. For me.. hard to grieve something love something so for so on you don't know. You talked about something that no one knows anything about.

"Have we ever wondered who those people are who will waltz into the judgment, totally confident they are about to be rewarded with eternal life, only to find out that they made THE mistake of all eternity? Do we somehow think that they did not say the prayer correctly, or did not have the seed actually sprout in their heart? Are we so blind? These people had cast out demons for goodness sake. These were not nominal go-through-the-motions people who thought they were good people and went to church so all must be well. These poor deceived (remember, continued willful sin deceives) people simply refused to bow the knee to God and let Him rule, lead, transform and deliver, setting them free indeed, which is the very reason He came. There was no longing deep inside them to be delivered from the wretched old nature spoken of in"

Ok.. allot of what you said here is NOT written now what I mean is you are adding things to something Jesus said that He did not. You took a verse and applied to something you see today and dont like or disagree with. See that preacher on TV taking money.. is that one God is talking about? Lets read before ..what was Jesus talking about? What JUST happen to those standing there in the flesh that Jesus just gathered from the Nations? No where does it say or make hint at.. any dead were raised.. that would be TONS of people.. and would not they be standing in the GREAT WHITE throne judgement where the books are open? Hmm So.. when YOU or I die.. waiting for that day when Jesus comes before He welcomes us? This is not written. Says.. we die.. we go RIGHT to be with God. So..I wont be there..I am already with Him as ALL that have died before us that know Him.

So when I read it.. Hes talking about just after the Antichrist and calls the nations ..gathers them before Him. The 144000 were out there and others.. anyway.. what I believe .. and ask HIM.. well its HIS word.. and His sheep know His voice.. anyway.. you love Jesus want people to come to Christ HOW AWESOME IS THAT PRAISE GOD!

 

[Razare]

I believe Duane Sheriff's interpretation of those scriptures.

From the correct view that agrees with scripture, there was only ever 1 sin that would condemn a person. The sin of unbelief, which is what the Pharisees were doing when Christ mentioned blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

I've heard born again Christians curse Jesus, but they're still Christians. Christ forgives them. But the sin of unbelief in God's salvation is not forgiven. It is the unforgiven sin because it is unbelief in the mechanism of salvation itself, the Holy Spirit.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. - John 3:18

The sin of unbelief can happen by someone who is not saved yet, just as those Pharisees were not saved through Christ's covenant. When Christ came, he became their stumbling stone to salvation.

But likewise, someone in covenant can have that covenant die in their heart, just as a seed planted can wither due to persecutions or thorn bushes and die. See the seed parable which references salvation by the kingdom of God through Christ (Matthew 13).

Yet if a plant is dying by weeds growing around it, if you've had a garden, you realize it usually wont ever die. What happens is the plant simply does not grow and does not produce fruit.

Yet if a plant dies of shallow soil it is quick (persecutions). It springs up fast, from seed growth, but then the roots can't find water and nutrients, and then the sun can kill it for lack of moister (the word = water).

Then really, cares of the world & sins don't kill salvation if a person holds to their confession and belief in God's word. Yet if they don't have God's word deeply rooted in them through understanding and commitment in the face of persecution, their salvation will die almost instantly. This type of person can receive salvation later. While the seed started to grow, they didn't become born again.

Now, if they were born again, then that just means they've gone into unbelief as a Christian and God will have to deal with that later. God is patient. A Christian having gone into unbelief, does not instantly profess a legitimate rejection of Christ.

I believe after enough time of God dealing with them if they ultimately reject Christ and go into complete unbelief, they've lost salvation. After that, if they were truly born again, they're not going to be born again, again. But such a person should not be treated as though they cannot receive Christ, because it could be they were never saved to begin with. They could have had the appearance of a Christian, without the inner change.

 

[theniceiceman]

I believe Duane Sheriff's interpretation of those scriptures.

From the correct view that agrees with scripture, there was only ever 1 sin that would condemn a person. The sin of unbelief, which is what he Pharisees were doing when Christ mentioned blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

I've heard born again Christians curse Jesus, but they're still Christians. Christ forgives them. But the sin of unbelief in God's salvation is not forgiven. It is the unforgiven sin because it is unbelief in the mechanism of salvation itself, the Holy Spirit.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. - John 3:18

The sin of unbelief can happen by someone who is not saved yet, just as those Pharisees were not saved through Christ's covenant. When Christ came, he became their stumbling stone to salvation.

But likewise, someone in covenant can have that covenant die in their heart, just as a seed planted can wither due to persecutions or thorn bushes and die. See the seed parable which references salvation by the kingdom of God through Christ (Matthew 13).

Yet if a plant is dying by weeds growing around it, if you've had a garden, you realize it usually wont ever die. What happens is the plant simply does not grow and does not produce fruit.

Yet if a plant dies of shallow soil it is quick (persecutions). It springs up fast, from seed growth, but then the roots can't find water and nutrients, and then the sun can kill it for lack of moister (the word = water).

Then really, cares of the world & sins don't kill salvation if a person holds to their confession and belief in God's word. Yet if they don't have God's word deeply rooted in them through understanding and commitment in the face of persecution, their salvation will die almost instantly. This type of person can receive salvation later. While the seed started to grow, they didn't become born again.

Now, if they were born again, then that just means they've gone into unbelief as a Christian and God will have to deal with that later. God is patient. A Christian having gone into unbelief, does not instantly profess a legitimate rejection of Christ.

I believe after enough time of God dealing with them if they ultimately reject Christ and go into complete unbelief, they've lost salvation. After that, if they were truly born again, they're not going to be born again, again. But such a person should not be treated as though they cannot receive Christ, because it could be they were never saved to begin with. They could have had the appearance of a Christian, without the inner change.

Really well put, mate. I think I do believe that someone can lose salvation...I'm not entirely sure how I feel about OSAS. But, I also don't think that 'once you're saved, if you fall away, you can't ever come back'. That would be so unlike God! God called the Israelites to return over and over and over. Why would He not do the same for His children--His prodigals?

I think a lot of kids who are raised Christian end up 'falling away' in their teen/young adult years, only to 'come to their senses' once more when they're older and more mature. And I think God will always, always, always accept a person who is coming to Him for mercy and forgiveness.

You're exactly right--if we aren't actively involving ourselves in God's word, fellowship with others, it's going to come back to bite us. I don't know if you can lose salvation or not, but I do definitely believe you'll never grow as a Christian if you don't work at it. It takes time, involvement, effort. It's not easy!

 

[Si_monfaith]

Really well put, mate. I think I do believe that someone can lose salvation...I'm not entirely sure how I feel about OSAS. But, I also don't think that 'once you're saved, if you fall away, you can't ever come back'. That would be so unlike God! God called the Israelites to return over and over and over. Why would He not do the same for His children--His prodigals?

I think a lot of kids who are raised Christian end up 'falling away' in their teen/young adult years, only to 'come to their senses' once more when they're older and more mature. And I think God will always, always, always accept a person who is coming to Him for mercy and forgiveness.

You're exactly right--if we aren't actively involving ourselves in God's word, fellowship with others, it's going to come back to bite us. I don't know if you can lose salvation or not, but I do definitely believe you'll never grow as a Christian if you don't work at it. It takes time, involvement, effort. It's not easy!

Rather than believe one can lose salvation why not believe that you cannot be separated by anyone from Christ's love becz Christ loves you(rom8:36,37)?

 

[Razare]

-- deleted oops!

 

[Razare]

Rather than believe one can lose salvation why not believe that you cannot be separated by anyone from Christ's love becz Christ loves you(rom8:36,37)?

I believe it. But I also believe if a person wants to separate themselves from Christ's love, they will be separated. Not by deed, but by choice, faith and belief.

But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven. - Matthew 10:33

If we have to believe to be saved, and this is required, then we have to believe to be saved. And if we don't believe in our heart (this is not a feeling but a spiritual law), then we simply don't believe and have no faith, and salvation is by faith.

If it applies before salvation, it certainly applies after salvation, otherwise we are not saved by the mechanism which produced our salvation and we would be lost.

If a choice to reject Christ means nothing, then likewise, a choice to accept him is as equally meaningless. That said, it all works by the spirit in our heart, and not by physical deeds. I could shout, "I reject Christ!" at the top of my lungs 12 times, and I would still be a Christian when I was through. You would have to mean it from the heart, with absolute determination, a determination which is likely only found in a mature Christian that understands the spiritual laws.

My pastor teaches immature Christians once saved can't reject Christ, unless they become mature according to Hebrews. I may agree.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Really well put, mate. I think I do believe that someone can lose salvation...I'm not entirely sure how I feel about OSAS. But, I also don't think that 'once you're saved, if you fall away, you can't ever come back'. That would be so unlike God! God called the Israelites to return over and over and over. Why would He not do the same for His children--His prodigals?

I think a lot of kids who are raised Christian end up 'falling away' in their teen/young adult years, only to 'come to their senses' once more when they're older and more mature. And I think God will always, always, always accept a person who is coming to Him for mercy and forgiveness.

You're exactly right--if we aren't actively involving ourselves in God's word, fellowship with others, it's going to come back to bite us. I don't know if you can lose salvation or not, but I do definitely believe you'll never grow as a Christian if you don't work at it. It takes time, involvement, effort. It's not easy!

It is not by our active involvement that we r saved. Rather, it is becz Jesus chose us that we r actively involved(john15:16).

 

[Si_monfaith]

I believe it. But I also believe if a person wants to separate themselves from Christ's love, they will be separated. Not by deed, but by choice, faith and belief.

But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven. - Matthew 10:33

If we have to believe to be saved, and this is required, then we have to believe to be saved. And if we don't believe in our heart (this is not a feeling but a spiritual law), then we simply don't believe and have no faith, and salvation is by faith.

one who knows Christ's love will believe him alone for salvation & cannot go away.

Only those who trust in the law as well along with Christ will violate it, feel guilty & might leave the Lord.

 

[theniceiceman]

Rather than believe one can lose salvation why not believe that you cannot be separated by anyone from Christ's love becz Christ loves you(rom8:36,37)?

Wellllllll that's actually because of what I was told in childhood. I remember talking to my mom about God's love, telling her, 'God even loves Hitler', and she told me in return, 'He loves him, but He'll still send him to Hell.' 'For God so loved the world', Jesus says, but apparently most of the world is still going to Hell. So that's why I think the way I do, haha.

 

[theniceiceman]

I believe it. But I also believe if a person wants to separate themselves from Christ's love, they will be separated. Not by deed, but by choice, faith and belief.

But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven. - Matthew 10:33

If we have to believe to be saved, and this is required, then we have to believe to be saved. And if we don't believe in our heart (this is not a feeling but a spiritual law), then we simply don't believe and have no faith, and salvation is by faith.

If it applies before salvation, it certainly applies after salvation, otherwise we are not saved by the mechanism which produced our salvation and we would be lost.

If a choice to reject Christ means nothing, then likewise, a choice to accept him is as equally meaningless. That said, it all works by the spirit in our heart, and not by physical deeds. I could shout, "I reject Christ!" at the top of my lungs 12 times, and I would still be a Christian when I was through. You would have to mean it from the heart, with absolute determination, a determination which is likely only found in a mature Christian that understands the spiritual laws.

My pastor teaches immature Christians once saved can't reject Christ, unless they become mature according to Hebrews. I may agree.

I totally agree with your pastor. Like I said in my reply above, there were some things in my childhood, things I was taught, various mental illnesses, lack of understanding (what child can really grasp what Christianity is all about?) that made it difficult for me, and I ended up walking away from church and God for several years. However, after coming back last September, I've realized how very little I know, even after having been raised in church. I was given a lot of information in my childhood, but I hardly understood any of it...I understood enough to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, but not enough to understand the lifestyle.

I rejected what I thought Christianity was, but I never rejected Christ. You can't reject someone you hardly even know And once you know Christ, I just can't imagine anyone rejecting him. I mean, I know it does happen, but it's so hard for me to imagine.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Wellllllll that's actually because of what I was told in childhood. I remember talking to my mom about God's love, telling her, 'God even loves Hitler', and she told me in return, 'He loves him, but He'll still send him to Hell.' 'For God so loved the world', Jesus says, but apparently most of the world is still going to Hell. So that's why I think the way I do, haha.

If hitler was sent to hell it was becz he did not believe in Christ's love to keep him from separating him from Christ & not becz Christ is unable to keep him from going away from him.