"Binding and Loosing" its not what most think

[Thekla]

I mentioned this in another thread :

My Bible footnotes this verse as being in the "future passive periphrastic indicative tense". Whatever this is, is it possible this tense might be difficult to render in English ?

 

[JerryL]

Wouldn't this verse have to have some meaning relating to the unit of Scripture it comes from? The verse is right in the middle of Scripture about restoring an erring brother, it should have some meaning around that context, right?
Mat 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Mat 18:16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Mat 18:17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Mat 18:18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19 "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Wouldn't this verse have to have some meaning relating to the unit of Scripture it comes from? The verse is right in the middle of Scripture about restoring an erring brother, it should have some meaning around that context, right?
Mat 18:15"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Mat 18:16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Mat 18:17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Mat 18:18"Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:19"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.

If your brother sins and does not repent don't permit what is not permitted and do not forbid what is not forbidden. The church is not to err in either the extreme of antinomianism on the one hand nor unforgiveness on the other. So yes, you're right, the context is illustrative of the principle. In 1 Cor. 5 Paul rebukes the church of Corinth for not disciplining sin; in effect they had loosed and permitted what had not been loosed and permitted in heaven.

 

[SummaScriptura]

I mentioned this in another thread :

My Bible footnotes this verse as being in the "future passive periphrastic indicative tense". Whatever this is, is it possible this tense might be difficult to render in English ?

Yes it is difficult, but not impossible to render it in English. The resulting verb tense does not roll off the tongue well and requires some thought. Isn't it amazing how God requires us simple ones and all to often foolish one (I speak of I) to think things out?

Here is a literal take on the verse in English from Young's Literal Translation:

"Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens." Mt. 18:18

The part of this verse that cannot be translated into English without interpretation is the "binding" and "loosing" part. It was a phrase used within Judaism to describe what a rabbi does. When a rabbi "binds" in his teaching, he forbids a thing, when a rabbi "looses" in his teaching, he permits a thing.

Rabbi Yeshua binds: "It shall not be so among you!"

Rabbi Yeshua looses: "Do not stop him!"

It is truly amazing how many wrong-headed ideas have originated due to the poor state of this verse in translation in the history of the Church.

All things considered, I still feel the Amplified handles the overall situation best:

"Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be what is already permitted in heaven."

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Here is how it reads word for word from the greek....I call it "LLOJ's Yoda Translation"

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Matt 18:18 Verily/Amen I am saying to ye as much as ifever ye should be binding upon the land shall be having been bound in the heaven and as much as ifever ye should be loosing upon the land shall be having been loosed in the heaven.

Wow. Your Yoda translation seems to agree with the Amplified version. Pretty neat.

 

[James Forthwright]

Thanks for the clarification of this oft-confused verse, SummaScriptura.

 

[cyberlizard]

wow... here's a good translation of the verse in question...

17Do not suppose and infer that I have come to overthrow by poor exposition the Torah or the Prophets, I have not come to overthrow them by misinterpreting them but to completely explain them, bringing out their fullness so that they run over with meaning.

taken from the following online gospel - link here.


Steve

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

wow... here's a good translation of the verse in question...

17Do not suppose and infer that I have come to overthrow by poor exposition the Torah or the Prophets, I have not come to overthrow them by misinterpreting them but to completely explain them, bringing out their fullness so that they run over with meaning.

taken from the following online gospel - link here.

Steve

I suppose that would make more sense for the Jews of today.
All we need to do now is to get them to just read our NT/NC so they can better explain it to us poor ignorant "gentile" Christians the correct interpretation

 

[SummaScriptura]

To sum up:

Young's Literal Translation:

Verily I say to you, whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.

Amplified Bible:

Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be what is already permitted in heaven.

Combining what I think is the best of both, here's a suggested reading (in blue are my slightly altered parts):

Truly I say to you, whatever things you may bind upon the earth, forbidding and declaring them to be improper and unlawful, must be having been bound and already forbidden in the heavens, and whatever things you may loose upon the earth, permitting and declaring them proper and lawful, must be having been loosed and already permitted in the heavens.

If you decide to teach on this verse in your church and there is already vested belief-systems in the common understanding of the verse, you may wish to wear a flack vest and some flame-retardant clothing.