Bigots on the march in NY

[tulc]

To be clear, I don't exactly fully agree with them either. But at the same time I'm going to take the stance that their objections are probably based in something other than irrational hatred of another group.

Claiming bigotry or hatred or fear by a group that one disagrees with is not a legitimate debate tactic and certainly will not result in anything resembling productive dialog.

I agree!
tulc(good post!)

 

[Macx]

Accurate point? How is it accurate for you to declare in a conversation what another man has to say or what he believes before he even has an opportunity to say it himself? How on earth is that an accurate point?

Do you know what you are talking about?

The only point I saw in that post was a cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. What about the 'nice little suburban' Muslims? Or the rich, affluent ones? Are they violent? Your maps are a 1 week sample of an entire city, hardly representative of even that city, let alone an entire religion. You keep referring to ghettos. Ghettos are violent. I know, I lived in one for four years when I was getting on my feet. Worked there, too. But never did I decide that the violence there was anything more than the result of poverty.

Nope, not a city, a precinct where week after week the crime hot spot centers around the Somali Mall. Given this neighborhood has not historically been a ghetto and has been transitioning to such with the influx of Somalis. . . . crime rate rise and Somali population rise . . .. eh, shoot, you could look the facts dead square in the face and you wouldn't admit what was plain as day.

 

[tulc]

Do you know what you are talking about?

Nope, not a city, a precinct where week after week the crime hot spot centers around the Somali Mall. Given this neighborhood has not historically been a ghetto and has been transitioning to such with the influx of Somalis. . . . crime rate rise and Somali population rise . . .. eh, shoot, you could look the facts dead square in the face and you wouldn't admit what was plain as day.

...doesn't that sort of mean the problem lies more with the Somalis not their religion?
tulc(just curious)

 

[xMinionX]

Do you know what you are talking about?

Yup. I was talking about the bolded portion of the quoted post, in which you told another member what he was going to say and think.

Nope, not a city, a precinct where week after week the crime hot spot centers around the Somali Mall. Given this neighborhood has not historically been a ghetto and has been transitioning to such with the influx of Somalis. . . . crime rate rise and Somali population rise . . .. eh, shoot, you could look the facts dead square in the face and you wouldn't admit what was plain as day.

yet another causal fallacy.

 

[Macx]

Yup. I was talking about the bolded portion of the quoted post, in which you told another member what he was going to say and think.

yet another causal fallacy.

Yeah, except it isn't. I mean, I can see how you'd like to deny it, but ya don't live here and you don't see who's in the backs of the squad cars as they head for the lockup.

I said

You'll minimalize what I have to say, because obviously someone living in a ghetto is poorly educated or a drug addict. If I am educated, then I am B.S.ing about living in a ghetto a couple blocks up from a Somali Mall. You'll doubt that there is any impact

And you have proved me right

 

[tulc]

Yeah, except it isn't. I mean, I can see how you'd like to deny it, but ya don't live here and you don't see who's in the backs of the squad cars as they head for the lockup.

I said And you have proved me right

Anyone elses irony meter just bury it's needle?
tulc(is lucky he got the batteries out before it exploded)

 

[xMinionX]

Yeah, except it isn't. I mean, I can see how you'd like to deny it, but ya don't live here and you don't see who's in the backs of the squad cars as they head for the lockup.

How can you see how I'd like to deny it? Or any of my intentions, for that matter? Are you the local internet psychic?

You can tell someones religion by looking at them in the back of a squad car?

I said And you have proved me right

Excuse me? Lets break that down.

You'll minimalize what I have to say

No, I pointed out a logical fallacy.

, because obviously someone living in a ghetto is poorly educated or a drug addict.

Huh? Never said anything about that at all. I lived in the ghetto myself.

If I am educated, then I am B.S.ing about living in a ghetto a couple blocks up from a Somali Mall.

Never said that either.

You'll doubt that there is any impact

There's obviously an impact. I contend that it probably doesn't have to do with the religion of Islam as you say.

 

[Ryal Kane]

Anyone elses irony meter just bury it's needle?
tulc(is lucky he got the batteries out before it exploded)

Then read this before you install the new one. Otherwise it would be a waste.

NorthJersey.com: On this ground, zero tolerance

Many protesters held American flags. Many carried signs.
"A Mosque at Ground Zero Spits on the Graves of 9/11," one placard proclaimed. Another sign depicted a toilet, with this message: "This is a Mosque. Do You Want it Built at Ground Zero?"
At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.
"Go home," several shouted from the crowd.
"Get out," others shouted.
In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.
"I'm a Christian," Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.
But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.
"I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here," a frustrated Nassralla said afterward.

But you know, it wasn't racism...right?

 

[Gishin]

Then read this before you install the new one. Otherwise it would be a waste.

NorthJersey.com: On this ground, zero tolerance



But you know, it wasn't racism...right?

Just because people have strong emotions about something doesn't mean they're right.

 

[chaz345]

Just because people have strong emotions about something doesn't mean they're right.

True. But it also doesn't mean they are racists either.

 

[Gishin]

True. But it also doesn't mean they are racists either.

Most are just very upset people that are out of their right mind.

 

[USincognito]

... a couple blocks up from a Somali Mall.

Immigrants from a largely lawless country are acting lawless? Shock-ing!

Interesting, we have the same issue with blacks here. Must be because they are black......

Hispanics here.. must be because they're Catholic.

...doesn't that sort of mean the problem lies more with the Somalis not their religion?
tulc(just curious)

Nah, couldn't be. If Macx lived in Texas he'd be exposed to constant crime reports about Hispanic immigrants and surely he'd be decrying Catholicism and not their contry of origin.

 

[USincognito]

Is this the group that harrassed the Copts.

Ah, so it was the one I was referring to..

Then read this before you install the new one. Otherwise it would be a waste.
{snip URL}

But you know, it wasn't racism...right?

True. But it also doesn't mean they are racists either.

More like fear fueled bigotry with a stinky veneer of racism.

 

[xMinionX]

True. But it also doesn't mean they are racists either.

I think people can do racist things without being racist. This incident with the poor Egyptian guys who looked Muslim to the crowd is an example. There may be another explanation for, but I can't imagine what it would be. But just the same, I doubt that all of those people were racists. They were just caught up in the moment with the crowd and let their emotions take the place of their rationality.

Was it a racist thing to do? Sure looks that way to me. But good people do stupid things sometimes. History has taught us nothing if not that.