Biblical Slavery?

[th1bill]

There are some difficult teachings that are found in the scriptures. I love to teach them, hoping to help some to understand. I am often found teaching Biblical Marriage and the truth of the existence of an Eternal Hell. One teaching I have felt unable to teach is “Slavery!.” I often see atheists screaming that the Bible teaches that God approves of slavery and I have, in the past, tried to help them to see that the slavery God approves of is not what they think of as slavery.


You should have noticed that even with being slippery with my words I did not offend anyone, thats about to not be true. We see many scriptures in the Bible that speak to the matter of slavery within the Israeli community. The truth is that God did not disapprove in most cases. This is so true that God has purchased us with His Son's own blood. Free men are not purchased, okay? Slaves are!


So let's see if I can make this hole I'm digging deeper. Let's look at what Paul recorded for us to learn in Romans 12:1. Paul wants us to walk up to the Alter of Sacrifice and to put our bodies down there for God's good pleasure. We're not just slaves, bought with a price, we're a living sacrifice if we are serving God. That can sound harsh but he assures us that it is our duty.


On my mother's side my Great Grandmother Davis arrived here from Ireland and she and her children were Bond Slaves. They had to work off the debt before they could be free. If you've observed my signature you've noticed that I announce that I, also, am a Bond Slave. My Granny Davis worked her debt off, I never will. I owe the LORD a debt I cannot repay! Since we are using the scriptures to determine our lot in life, the case can be made for the Jewish custom of forgiving a debt after seven years. There is an addendum to that custom, however. If a slave elected to remain in the Master's service he or she could go to the city gate and have their ear pierced with an awl to mark them as their master's slave forever. The LORD has not asked that of me but if He ever does I will, will you?​

 

[Hammster]

Yes. I surrender awl.

 

[mlqurgw]

There are some difficult teachings that are found in the scriptures. I love to teach them, hoping to help some to understand. I am often found teaching Biblical Marriage and the truth of the existence of an Eternal Hell. One teaching I have felt unable to teach is “Slavery!.” I often see atheists screaming that the Bible teaches that God approves of slavery and I have, in the past, tried to help them to see that the slavery God approves of is not what they think of as slavery.


You should have noticed that even with being slippery with my words I did not offend anyone, thats about to not be true. We see many scriptures in the Bible that speak to the matter of slavery within the Israeli community. The truth is that God did not disapprove in most cases. This is so true that God has purchased us with His Son's own blood. Free men are not purchased, okay? Slaves are!


So let's see if I can make this hole I'm digging deeper. Let's look at what Paul recorded for us to learn in Romans 12:1. Paul wants us to walk up to the Alter of Sacrifice and to put our bodies down there for God's good pleasure. We're not just slaves, bought with a price, we're a living sacrifice if we are serving God. That can sound harsh but he assures us that it is our duty.


On my mother's side my Great Grandmother Davis arrived here from Ireland and she and her children were Bond Slaves. They had to work off the debt before they could be free. If you've observed my signature you've noticed that I announce that I, also, am a Bond Slave. My Granny Davis worked her debt off, I never will. I owe the LORD a debt I cannot repay! Since we are using the scriptures to determine our lot in life, the case can be made for the Jewish custom of forgiving a debt after seven years. There is an addendum to that custom, however. If a slave elected to remain in the Master's service he or she could go to the city gate and have their ear pierced with an awl to mark them as their master's slave forever. The LORD has not asked that of me but if He ever does I will, will you?
​

No true believer owes a debt to God. The God Man our Surety paid it all. We are free men who willingly serve Him who set us free. Our service isn't out of duty or debt but out of love. The picture of the slave having his ear bored with an awl is a picture of Christ who loved His bride and children so much He made Himself a servant willingly. If you are going to teach it get it right.

 

[th1bill]

No true believer owes a debt to God.

I don't wish to begin a battle but your statement took be by such surprise that I needed to pray and to wait for God. Let me begin by defining Christian in my world. Everyone that's listed oin the Church poll is not a Christian. Most are not even saved. In Matthew 22 we find Jesus using a parable to paint a word picture of Heaven. The Bride, in my world, is the folllwers of Jesus/God and the guests are the saved men, the folks that have their fire insurance but failed to follow The Christ.

You correctly stayed that, on the cross, Jesus paid our debt off. So please, tell me, have you repayed the debt that no man can repay? Of course this is a rhetorical question and the answer, already being known, need not be expressed. I do not wish to embarrass you or anyone else but what you have said is one of the strongest indicators of the worlds condition today. The World believes ad teachesv that it is all about "ME."

If you have taken Jesus as your Savior you will be a guest in Heaven but if you have taken Jesus as your Master you are in the Bride. No matter the class, even the Lost Man, Jesus paid the Debt making Him the "Lean Holder." It's really not about us at all, we serve for god's good pleasure. In Philippians 2 :1-13 and beyond, we find the truth of my statement here.

 

[spiersdodgerblue]

No true believer owes a debt to God. The God Man our Surety paid it all. We are free men who willingly serve Him who set us free. Our service isn't out of duty or debt but out of love. The picture of the slave having his ear bored with an awl is a picture of Christ who loved His bride and children so much He made Himself a servant willingly. If you are going to teach it get it right.

Amen!!!!

 

[mlqurgw]

I don't wish to begin a battle but your statement took be by such surprise that I needed to pray and to wait for God. Let me begin by defining Christian in my world. Everyone that's listed oin the Church poll is not a Christian. Most are not even saved. In Matthew 22 we find Jesus using a parable to paint a word picture of Heaven. The Bride, in my world, is the folllwers of Jesus/God and the guests are the saved men, the folks that have their fire insurance but failed to follow The Christ.

You correctly stayed that, on the cross, Jesus paid our debt off. So please, tell me, have you repayed the debt that no man can repay? Of course this is a rhetorical question and the answer, already being known, need not be expressed. I do not wish to embarrass you or anyone else but what you have said is one of the strongest indicators of the worlds condition today. The World believes ad teachesv that it is all about "ME."

If you have taken Jesus as your Savior you will be a guest in Heaven but if you have taken Jesus as your Master you are in the Bride. No matter the class, even the Lost Man, Jesus paid the Debt making Him the "Lean Holder." It's really not about us at all, we serve for god's good pleasure. In Philippians 2 :1-13 and beyond, we find the truth of my statement here.

It is about Christ. He holds no lean on any for whom He died and the Scriptures are clear that when He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself He obtained eternal redemption. He actually saved some people He didn't make them savable. He did all that was necesarry to bring them to God as pure and spotless virgins. There is nothing left for them to do. If He had left anything for us to do we would mess it up. There is no such thing as a believer who is not of the Bride of Christ. Those who make professions but never really trust Christ are not saved. A believer serves Christ out of love not as an obligation of service. We serve Him by serving our brothers/sisters. Service to Him isn't slavish bondage but joyful duty.

 

[DeaconDean]

I don't wish to begin a battle but your statement took be by such surprise that I needed to pray and to wait for God. Let me begin by defining Christian in my world. Everyone that's listed oin the Church poll is not a Christian. Most are not even saved. In Matthew 22 we find Jesus using a parable to paint a word picture of Heaven. The Bride, in my world, is the folllwers of Jesus/God and the guests are the saved men, the folks that have their fire insurance but failed to follow The Christ.

You correctly stayed that, on the cross, Jesus paid our debt off. So please, tell me, have you repayed the debt that no man can repay? Of course this is a rhetorical question and the answer, already being known, need not be expressed. I do not wish to embarrass you or anyone else but what you have said is one of the strongest indicators of the worlds condition today. The World believes ad teachesv that it is all about "ME."

If you have taken Jesus as your Savior you will be a guest in Heaven but if you have taken Jesus as your Master you are in the Bride. No matter the class, even the Lost Man, Jesus paid the Debt making Him the "Lean Holder." It's really not about us at all, we serve for god's good pleasure. In Philippians 2 :1-13 and beyond, we find the truth of my statement here.

Sure I have! In Christ.

First off, let me say about your first post, have you ever heard of the term Hermenutics?

Context, context, context!

Rule number 1!

Slavery was gonna happen, and since it was, God made provisions under the Law for how the slave was to be treated.

And this principle did not dimish in the first century by Jesus' time either.

Secondly, what my friend and brother said about Jesus being our "Surety", I'm thinking, you have no clue about.

Thirdly, I'm also inclined to believe you do not 100% understand the concept of being declared "righteous and justified".

I have a debt of $1,000,000. I can't repay it, but some stranger, out of love for me, steps in and pays that debt off for me.

Now, am I liable to repay the $1,000,000 debt to my original debtor?

That is what being declared righteous and being justified carries in its meaning.

All my sins, past, present, and futuer are laid on Christ. My liabilities are now His. His rigteousness, is laid on me, rather, imputed to me. And because I am now righteous, I am justified in God's sight.

My "Surety", Jesus Christ, went on the cross and paid the debt I could not repay.

So yes, I can say with full assurance and confidence that my sin debt, the debt I could not repay, has been paid in full in Christ.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT​

Keep it civil please. IF you wish to disagree with each other, please do so calmly and support your view with scripture. This can be a productive discussion or not.

A few posts are now removed as they are being reviewed. ​

 

[mlqurgw]

Today's understanding of what a surety is is like a co-signer on a loan. The co-signer agrees to pay what is left of your debt when you can no longer pay. That isn't the Biblical teaching of a surety though. In the Scriptures a surety makes himself totally responsible for the entire debt and because he does the debtor must go free. He owes nothing at all because the surety took his debt and made it his own. The first example of a surety in the Scriptures is found in Gen. 43 when Judah became surety for Benjamin. Gen. 43:9 Judah agreed to bear all the shame if Benjamin didn't return to his father. He made himself responsible for Benjamin and therefore Benjamin bore no responsibility. We have a New Testament example as well. It is Paul making himself responsible for all the debt of Onesimus. Philemon 18-19 Onesimus was a slave of Philemon and had run away. Now Paul says that He owes nothing to Philemon because Paul had taken his debt. He didn't agree to pay what was lacking but to pay it all. The last example is Christ. We are told in Heb. 7:22 that Christ is the Surety of a better covenant. Christ made Himself responsible for all the debt of His people and took it as His own, 2Cor. 5:21, and by His Suretyship all He stood for must go free. A beautiful picture of it is found in John 18:8 When the men came for Jesus He tells them that if they seek Him they must let the others go free. That is exactly what God the Father did in justice. He exacted payment from our Surety and because He paid it in full all whom He represented must now go free. The debt is paid and they owe nothing. The Lord Jesus Christ holds no lien on us. Either our debt is paid in full or it isn't. Those who die in unbelief had no Surety and owe the debt themselves and will suffer eternally because of it. Those who believe have had their debt paid by the Surety, all of it, and owe nothing. They are free.

 

[DeaconDean]

Today's understanding of what a surety is is like a co-signer on a loan. The co-signer agrees to pay what is left of your debt when you can no longer pay. That isn't the Biblical teaching of a surety though. In the Scriptures a surety makes himself totally responsible for the entire debt and because he does the debtor must go free. He owes nothing at all because the surety took his debt and made it his own. The first example of a surety in the Scriptures is found in Gen. 43 when Judah became surety for Benjamin. Gen. 43:9 Judah agreed to bear all the shame if Benjamin didn't return to his father. He made himself responsible for Benjamin and therefore Benjamin bore no responsibility. We have a New Testament example as well. It is Paul making himself responsible for all the debt of Onesimus. Philemon 18-19 Onesimus was a slave of Philemon and had run away. Now Paul says that He owes nothing to Philemon because Paul had taken his debt. He didn't agree to pay what was lacking but to pay it all. The last example is Christ. We are told in Heb. 7:22 that Christ is the Surety of a better covenant. Christ made Himself responsible for all the debt of His people and took it as His own, 2Cor. 5:21, and by His Suretyship all He stood for must go free. A beautiful picture of it is found in John 18:8 When the men came for Jesus He tells them that if they seek Him they must let the others go free. That is exactly what God the Father did in justice. He exacted payment from our Surety and because He paid it in full all whom He represented must now go free. The debt is paid and they owe nothing. The Lord Jesus Christ holds no lien on us. Either our debt is paid in full or it isn't. Those who die in unbelief had no Surety and owe the debt themselves and will suffer eternally because of it. Those who believe have had their debt paid by the Surety, all of it, and owe nothing. They are free.

Thank you for expounding on the meaning of "Surety".

I know I appreciated it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[th1bill]

Let's try to back up, everyone has missed the point completely. I owed a debt I could not pay, my sin debt. Jesus, the second person in the Trinity, paid it off for me and I'll never, in all of Eternity, be able to repay Him. In this case it is unlike any earthly debt. Even my mom and my dad could not provide surety for this one, God, in all three persons would not allow that. That leaves any and all responsibility at my feet for a debt that I still will never be able to repay.

The thing that everyone is upset about (my perception) is the slavery and the debt. Like any true follower and any teacher that is God called I subject myself to the harsher judgment (James 3:1) because I love God. I love the future in store for me and I completely understand that in no manor could I ever pay for such a future, that's why Jesus/God did it for us. I owe Jesus for everything!

If you will read or reread the OP you will see that my Great Grandmother, on my mother's side, had to repay the debt she incurred by coming and bringing her children to the US, she was liable for all of it and, rereading my post, I could have, perhaps, been clearer about how that related to what I and every Christian owe to God. We are not being asked to fork the payment over but when we look at Romans 12:1, the scripture I used, we find that we "owe" a reasonable service to God.

Before my MS put me in this wheelchair I went to work 5 to 6 days every week to give my reasonable service to my employer for a wage at the end of each week, I "owed" them that service. Just as with God, I did not "have" to give that service but unlike God, they could have and would have sent me packing without my paycheck on my failure to perform. God will not send us down the pike, instead we do not earn rewards when we fail.

I hope this helps to clear the air here.

DeaconDean, yes context is absolutely required, it is the one point I drive in every day. The big problem is (and this always lifts eyebrows) that people do not understand the context of the Bible. The Bible is one continuous context from "In the beginning," through the last "Amen" of The Revelation of Jesus to John.

 

[Hammster]

One, your reasonable service was not based upon your employer giving you a paycheck. In other words, they didn't pay you and then you worked. Employers are in the business of making money, not giving jobs. Jobs are the cost of doing business. Your employer owed you money due to work you performed. That is what a wage is. The wages of sin is death. Death is what you earn when you sin.

Romans 12:1 says I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

Why do we offer ourselves as a living sacrifice? Not out of debt, but out of worship. At least that is what it appears that the verse says.