Biblical Creationism and Self Deceit

[Givemeareason]

The Bible warns of self deception.

"We live in a world full of lies, and deceit comes from many sources. There are lying spirits who lead astray (1 Timothy 4:1); there are “evildoers and impostors” looking for dupes (2 Timothy 3:13); and, perhaps most insidious, we have ourselves to deal with. Self-deception is common in our fallen world. Our own hearts are deceitful—so much so that we easily fool ourselves (Jeremiah 17:9).Isaiah 44:20speaks of an idolater who is misled by his own “deluded heart.” The prophet Obadiah identifies arrogance as one of the roots of self-deception: “The pride of your heart has deceived you” (Obadiah 1:3). Human pride always blinds us to truth. It promises honor, but it delivers disgrace: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall” (Proverbs 16:18)".
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-self-deception.html#ixzz3eIxT19EA

Yet there are many Christians who on prideful faith accept the idea that Genesis is the literal account of how Creation took place. And they believe a group of lying imposters of science claiming that this is true. All while they fail to confirm for themselves if they are being told the truth. They choose instead to see themselves as the persecuted people against the world while refusing to check it out themselves. And when they are shown to be wrong they close their eyes refusing to even see the evidence proving them wrong when it is right in front of them. They fail to recognize their own pride they have taken in their beliefs. They continue to argue on trying to punch holes in scientific facts while thinking they have valid arguments while failing to realize that even if all of human knowledge could be disproven it would not bring them one step closer to what they want to believe.

"The pride of your heart has deceived you." Obadiah 1:3

 

[Smidlee]

Who is they? Those verses would apply to everyone. I notice you didn't included yourself as if these verses doesn't apply to you (nor to the "scientist").

 

[Matthias Rose]

The interesting thing is that "how the world was made" is of negligible importance to how any of us live our lives.

There are ways in which the rejection of scientific understanding are damaging the world, but evolution vs. creation is really of very little moral or material value one way or the other. The entire universe could have been created 10 minutes ago, with all my memories of having been alive longer than that part and parcel of creation. Even that would not make the slightest difference in the life of love and compassion that I am called to.

 

[Winken]

The Bible warns of self deception.

Yes, it does. The deception by the self, the sinful nature, is the root of all evil.

That's why Jesus came.

 

[Givemeareason]

Who is they? Those verses would apply to everyone. I notice you didn't included yourself as if these verses doesn't apply to you (nor to the "scientist").

Each time the creationist discussions take place here it always devolves into an argument over scientific details. I have never seen the crux of the matter being discussed. It seems to be just a matter if arguing things rather than trying to resolve anything. Science is self correcting in matters of self deception because it is looking for evidence rather than forgone conclusions. The bulk of the evidence will point to whatever conclusion. Creationism trys to prove the biblical account of creation. In so doing it comes in conflict with all the major sciences and not just biological evolution. Creationism just takes potshots at science and just tries to disprove things while offering nothing in return. The bible is the creationist theory so it doesn't apply to science.

 

[The Cadet]

The interesting thing is that "how the world was made" is of negligible importance to how any of us live our lives.

There are ways in which the rejection of scientific understanding are damaging the world, but evolution vs. creation is really of very little moral or material value one way or the other. The entire universe could have been created 10 minutes ago, with all my memories of having been alive longer than that part and parcel of creation. Even that would not make the slightest difference in the life of love and compassion that I am called to.

You'd be surprised.

 

[Winken]

The bible is the creationist theory so it doesn't apply to science.

Science is the scientist's theory so it doesn't apply to Biblical interpretation and application, which is Spiritual, not the product of mind.

 

[Givemeareason]

The interesting thing is that "how the world was made" is of negligible importance to how any of us live our lives.

There are ways in which the rejection of scientific understanding are damaging the world, but evolution vs. creation is really of very little moral or material value one way or the other. The entire universe could have been created 10 minutes ago, with all my memories of having been alive longer than that part and parcel of creation. Even that would not make the slightest difference in the life of love and compassion that I am called to.

And if that's how you feel that is fine. But that is clearly not true for everyone. For example, if you could scientifically prove the Genesis story you would have converts coming from all directions. But since Creationists try to foolishly do that and cannot, you are losing converts. This is why the wiser churches are trying to distance themselves. They are making Christianity look bad.

 

[Givemeareason]

Science is the scientist's theory so it doesn't apply to Biblical interpretation and application, which is Spiritual, not the product of mind.

Then we need to recognize biblical creation is not supported by science.

 

[Smidlee]

Each time the creationist discussions take place here it always devolves into an argument over scientific details. I have never seen the crux of the matter being discussed. It seems to be just a matter if arguing things rather than trying to resolve anything. Science is self correcting in matters of self deception because it is looking for evidence rather than forgone conclusions. The bulk of the evidence will point to whatever conclusion. Creationism trys to prove the biblical account of creation. In so doing it comes in conflict with all the major sciences and not just biological evolution. Creationism just takes potshots at science and just tries to disprove things while offering nothing in return. The bible is the creationist theory so it doesn't apply to science.

Just because I'm a creationist doesn't mean I can't find an interest in science. Science is done by scientist which is no more or less self correcting than any thing else including politics.

Then we need to recognize biblical creation is not supported by science.

What if someone disagrees with you viewpoint and sees science that does support creation? Why do evolutionist think they have a monopoly on science?

 

[Givemeareason]

Just because I'm a creationist doesn't mean I can't find an interest and discussion in science. Science is done by scientist which is no more or less self correcting than any thing else including politics.

and what if someone disagrees with you view point ans sees science that does support creation. Why do evolutionist think they have a monopoly on science?

You are free to engage with science. But if you are going to try to advance your creationist theory you will need to find some evidence to support it. Poking holes in evolution does nothing to enhance your case which is also contradicted by most other science as well. Your theory states that the earth was created before the sun or the stars. There is nothing in science that would support that. You are taking a beautiful allegorical account of creation and turning it into something to be ridiculed. Clearly you have little understanding of science that you would compare it to politics. All Creationists are doing is engaging in self deceit and deceit of others.

 

[Smidlee]

You are free to engage with science. But if you are going to try to advance your creationist theory you will need to find some evidence to support it. Poking holes in evolution does nothing to enhance your case which is also contradicted by most other science as well. Your theory states that the earth was created before the sun or the stars. There is nothing in science that would support that. You are taking a beautiful allegorical account of creation and turning it into something to be ridiculed. Clearly you have little understanding of science that you would compare it to politics. All Creationists are doing is engaging in self deceit and deceit of others.

I only speak for myself and when I see holes in man's theory I'm not ashamed to point them out especially to those who think they have some kind of monopoly science and what is true.

Man has always worship nature and the stars and assume they are the creation of the stars (sun worship) which is idolatry. There is good reason the sun and stars are on the fourth day to contradicted man's theory he came from the stars. The heart of man is the same ... man is still trying to explain away his own existence by his own intellect.

 

[Givemeareason]

I only speak for myself and when I see holes in man's theory I'm not ashamed to point them out especially to those who think they have some kind of monopoly science and what is true.

Man has always worship nature and the stars and assume they are the creation of the stars (sun worship) which is idolatry. There is good reason the sun and stars are on the fourth day to contradicted man's theory he came from the stars. The heart of man is the same ... man is still trying to explain away his own existence by his own intellect.

Again you can poke holes or argue all you want about whatever you want. Just don't misrepresent yourself as having a viable scientific alternative. There is no scientific evidence supporting biblical creation. If you want to believe it you are simply believing what you want to believe. To suggest your ideas are supported by science would be completely dishonest.

 

[Smidlee]

Again you can poke holes or argue all you want about whatever you want. Just don't misrepresent yourself as having a viable scientific alternative. There is no scientific evidence supporting biblical creation. If you want to believe it you are simply believing what you want to believe. To suggest your ideas are supported by science would be completely dishonest.

My view is just as scientific as yours. I too can take what we know in the present and apply it to the past. I see science against evolution exactly like someone like Do-while Jones. I disagree with your opinion that there is no scientific evidence that supports creation.
Here is an example creationist doing science which supports creation.
http://edinburghcreationgroup.org/video/14
He mention the "principle of continuity" which is the religious idea behind a lot of modern day science like ToE.

 

[ken777]

The Bible warns of self deception.

"We live in a world full of lies, and deceit comes from many sources. There are lying spirits who lead astray (1 Timothy 4:1); there are “evildoers and impostors” looking for dupes (2 Timothy 3:13); and, perhaps most insidious, we have ourselves to deal with. Self-deception is common in our fallen world. Our own hearts are deceitful—so much so that we easily fool ourselves (Jeremiah 17:9).Isaiah 44:20speaks of an idolater who is misled by his own “deluded heart.” The prophet Obadiah identifies arrogance as one of the roots of self-deception: “The pride of your heart has deceived you” (Obadiah 1:3). Human pride always blinds us to truth. It promises honor, but it delivers disgrace: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall” (Proverbs 16:18)".
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-self-deception.html#ixzz3eIxT19EA

Yet there are many Christians who on prideful faith accept the idea that Genesis is the literal account of how Creation took place. And they believe a group of lying imposters of science claiming that this is true. All while they fail to confirm for themselves if they are being told the truth. They choose instead to see themselves as the persecuted people against the world while refusing to check it out themselves. And when they are shown to be wrong they close their eyes refusing to even see the evidence proving them wrong when it is right in front of them. They fail to recognize their own pride they have taken in their beliefs. They continue to argue on trying to punch holes in scientific facts while thinking they have valid arguments while failing to realize that even if all of human knowledge could be disproven it would not bring them one step closer to what they want to believe.

"The pride of your heart has deceived you." Obadiah 1:3

Evolution gives some understanding of how we got here but the Bible tells us Who did it. When life had evolved to the level that God wanted He then breathed a soul into the first humans which explains the universal reaching out to God among all peoples throughout all ages. The Bible and science do not contradict each other except when science says everything is a result of luck rather than divine intervention.

.

 

[Givemeareason]

My view is just as scientific as yours. I too can take what we know in the present and apply it to the past. I see science against evolution exactly like someone like Do-while Jones. I disagree with your opinion that there is no scientific evidence that supports creation.
Here is an example creationist doing science which supports creation.
http://edinburghcreationgroup.org/video/14
He mention the "principle of continuity" which is the religious idea behind a lot of modern day science like ToE.

And everything on that site is completely irrelevant to the theory you are trying to advance. Therein lies the great deception of Creationism. Here is the first part of your theory:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Again it says the earth was created before the sun and the stars. Do you have evidence to support that theory beyond your belief, intuition or whatever?

 

[Smidlee]

And everything on that site is completely irrelevant to the theory you are trying to advance. Therein lies the great deception of Creationism. Here is the first part of your theory:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Again it says the earth was created before the sun and the stars. Do you have evidence to support that theory beyond your belief, intuition or whatever?

The creation of the universe, life, or any other past events can not be repeated by science. The best evidence we have is to apply what we know is true in the present and apply it to the past. That exactly what Jones in the video did.

 

[Givemeareason]

The creation of the universe, life, or any other past events can not be repeated by science. The best evidence we have is to apply what we know is true in the present and apply it to the past.

Okay, so where is your evidence to support your theory? To advance any theory science first accumulates the evidence. I am informed the idea of the "Big Bang" started from the mind of a Christian. However that did not make it a theory until a great deal of evidence was accumulated in support of it. If the evidence were against it, the idea would have been tossed right out. That means that all you have is just another idea. Do you have evidence?

 

[Smidlee]

Watch the video. Where do you think Jones is wrong? Big Bang has some serious trouble with the evidence which is why it needs so many fudge factors to make the math work.

 

[Winepress777]

The Bible warns of self deception.

"We live in a world full of lies, and deceit comes from many sources. There are lying spirits who lead astray (1 Timothy 4:1); there are “evildoers and impostors” looking for dupes (2 Timothy 3:13); and, perhaps most insidious, we have ourselves to deal with. Self-deception is common in our fallen world. Our own hearts are deceitful—so much so that we easily fool ourselves (Jeremiah 17:9).Isaiah 44:20speaks of an idolater who is misled by his own “deluded heart.” The prophet Obadiah identifies arrogance as one of the roots of self-deception: “The pride of your heart has deceived you” (Obadiah 1:3). Human pride always blinds us to truth. It promises honor, but it delivers disgrace: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall” (Proverbs 16:18)".
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-self-deception.html#ixzz3eIxT19EA

Yet there are many Christians who on prideful faith accept the idea that Genesis is the literal account of how Creation took place. And they believe a group of lying imposters of science claiming that this is true. All while they fail to confirm for themselves if they are being told the truth. They choose instead to see themselves as the persecuted people against the world while refusing to check it out themselves. And when they are shown to be wrong they close their eyes refusing to even see the evidence proving them wrong when it is right in front of them. They fail to recognize their own pride they have taken in their beliefs. They continue to argue on trying to punch holes in scientific facts while thinking they have valid arguments while failing to realize that even if all of human knowledge could be disproven it would not bring them one step closer to what they want to believe.

"The pride of your heart has deceived you." Obadiah 1:3

True, true.
From what I've seen of the creationist's, they correctly understand that "evolution" did not occur, that God created each organism intact at every turn. Which is scriptural. But... as you have displayed, they become fanatically polarized into the topic of a seven 24 hour day creation, because of a blind faith and ignorance of the meaning of a "day" in scriptures.

The old earth folk, such as myself, who know that God created the heavens and the earth over billions of years, who then also recognize the specific 6 days then rest creation, has a deeper meaning and isn't meant to convey 24 hour periods. That is just religious fanaticism.
As much fanaticism as the evolutionists perform for us in their ridiculous non-empirical assumptions that every organism spontaneously morphed into a different species, and that it all came to be by chance. Which, is of course, so obviously false, then the "short time creationists" go wild and then crazy overboard the other way, because the evolutionists are so obviously blinded and deceived by their own religious unfounded zeal.

I have laughed at the derision on both sides of this silly argument for so long, it is so pointless...