Bible study groups for non-Christians

shane50+

Member
Nov 28, 2023
23
8
55
North Brabant
✟5,294.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Married
Hello,

So far I have found the Bible pretty tough going - and I haven't even finished Genesis! Regardless of what I have tried to study in the past, I have found group lessons to be most effective and fun way to learn. I see there are many online Bible study groups. Why do they tend to be sex-segregated? Do they welcome non-Christians who are simply curious?
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Yusuphhai

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,365
10,608
Georgia
✟912,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hello,

So far I have found the Bible pretty tough going - and I haven't even finished Genesis! Regardless of what I have tried to study in the past, I have found group lessons to be most effective and fun way to learn. I see there are many online Bible study groups. Why do they tend to be sex-segregated? Do they welcome non-Christians who are simply curious?
They often are for just men or just women - to keep everything simpler and also because sometimes men or women feel uncomfortable studying certain topic in the presence of the opposite sex.

I for one - love to study the Bible
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,662
7,880
63
Martinez
✟906,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hello,

So far I have found the Bible pretty tough going - and I haven't even finished Genesis! Regardless of what I have tried to study in the past, I have found group lessons to be most effective and fun way to learn. I see there are many online Bible study groups. Why do they tend to be sex-segregated? Do they welcome non-Christians who are simply curious?
Scripture has two sides, old and new. For a historical reference go to a synagogue, they allow those who are curious and though they do not recognize Jesus christ of Nazareth as their Messiah, you can actually learn much of His history. Simultaneously you should watch Bard Erman videos on Biblical studies. Though he is now an agnostic, he has a lot of biblical knowledge. Now for a pretty basic biblically grounded church, try The Church of Christ however I'm not sure what the equivalent would be in the Netherlands. Be blessed.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Yusuphhai
Upvote 0

Yusuphhai

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese
Oct 19, 2005
5,042
1,869
51
Beijing China
✟170,960.00
Country
China
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
In fact, many studies of the Bible do not emphasize sectarianism, but rather objectively understand the Bible and its historical clues. Although I have Middle Eastern ancestry, I knew almost nothing about the Bible when I was a child. In history, Western Christianity brought translated texts of the Bible to China and guided Chinese people to believe in Jesus, which was a amazing thing and influenced me.

Have a blessed trip of searching Bible.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,365
10,608
Georgia
✟912,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Simultaneously you should watch Bard Erman videos on Biblical studies. Though he is now an agnostic, he has a lot of biblical knowledge.
I think you mean "Bart Ehrman". I was friends with someone getting his doctoral degree under Ehrman at Chapel Hill and had a chance to sit in on a class where Bart and Carl were debating each other on the historicity of the book of Acts. I would not recommend Ehrman given his strong opposition to the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

food4thought

Loving truth
Site Supporter
Jul 9, 2002
2,929
725
50
Watervliet, MI
✟383,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hello,

So far I have found the Bible pretty tough going - and I haven't even finished Genesis! Regardless of what I have tried to study in the past, I have found group lessons to be most effective and fun way to learn. I see there are many online Bible study groups. Why do they tend to be sex-segregated? Do they welcome non-Christians who are simply curious?
Most local churches have Bible studies during the week. It might take a few weeks to find one that suits you, but there is probably a church in your area that has a Bible study that would welcome someone outside the faith who is curious.
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,662
7,880
63
Martinez
✟906,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think you mean "Bart Ehrman". I was friends with someone getting his doctoral degree under Ehrman at Chapel Hill and had a chance to sit in on a class where Bart and Carl were debating each other on the historicity of the book of Acts. I would not recommend Ehrman given his strong opposition to the Bible.
Understood but Ehrman's work encourages critical thinking of Christian origins and traditions. He doesn't aim to dismantle Christianity. The OP is a Panthiest who finds it difficult to understand scripture. We as Christians know His Holy Spirit guilds us through scripture unveiling its truths, @shane50+ does not have this advantage. An academic approach allows an unbiased look into scripture so that a critical thinker can come to conclusions on their own . Blessings.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,662
7,880
63
Martinez
✟906,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think you mean "Bart Ehrman". I was friends with someone getting his doctoral degree under Ehrman at Chapel Hill and had a chance to sit in on a class where Bart and Carl were debating each other on the historicity of the book of Acts. I would not recommend Ehrman given his strong opposition to the Bible.
Here is Bart debating " for" the existence of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,365
10,608
Georgia
✟912,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Here is Bart debating " for" the existence of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
As a good atheist/agnostic he argues that Jesus was a human that existed in real history , had a real mother, and was really crucified. Even anti-Christian Judaism affirms those details. Ben Shapiro as a non-believing Jew has a debate with a Christian and Ben affirms that same thing.

But neither Ben nor Bart affirm the miracles in the Bible regarding Christ or any Christian leaders. In John 14 Jesus says this --
The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 12 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I am going to the Father.​

Jesus does not simply say "believe that I am a human that actually exists in real time" --
He says to believe in his supernatural relationship to the Father - as a member of the Godhead - and if for no other reason - than for the reason that His works testify to His divine Godhead status as the Son of God, the Son of Man (in the Dan 7 sense).

Bart is ok with Jesus as a human that existed 2000 years ago -- since his atheist/agnostic position allows for humans to have existed 2000 years ago and allows for a historic Jesus that got killed by Romans.

I think a lot of atheists could also sign up for that.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,365
10,608
Georgia
✟912,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Understood but Ehrman's work encourages critical thinking of Christian origins and traditions. He doesn't aim to dismantle Christianity.
If deleting the miracles of Jesus and his followers does not dismantle Christianity then even Jesus was wrong in John 14 where He says that seeing Jesus is in fact to see God the Father since He is in the Father. Jesus claims we can believe in his deity if for no other reason -- one can reach that state of belief just because of the works (miracles) of Jesus.

The very thing that Bart says is not true. Which by Jesus' own statement in John 14 is a position completely undermining His claims about the Godhead, the Gospel, the reliable nature of scripture ... etc.

If your argument is that the atheist/agnostic position of Bart (where he admits that Jesus is a real human that exited 2000 years ago and then got killed by the Romans) - is step toward faith from a Pantheistic position to an atheist position, help me understand how Bart's position is a step forward. I don't think pantheists are required by their belief to deny that humans actually existed 2000 years ago or that Jesus was a real human that got killed by the Romans - crucified - 2000 years ago.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,662
7,880
63
Martinez
✟906,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If deleting the miracles of Jesus and his followers does not dismantle Christianity then even Jesus was wrong in John 14 where He says that seeing Jesus is in fact to see God the Father since He is in the Father. Jesus claims we can believe in his deity if for no other reason -- one can reach that state of belief just because of the works (miracles) of Jesus.

The very thing that Bart says is not true. Which by Jesus' own statement in John 14 is a position completely undermining His claims about the Godhead, the Gospel, the reliable nature of scripture ... etc.

If your argument is that the atheist/agnostic position of Bart (where he admits that Jesus is a real human that exited 2000 years ago and then got killed by the Romans) - is step toward faith from a Pantheistic position to an atheist position, help me understand how Bart's position is a step forward. I don't think pantheists are required by their belief to deny that humans actually existed 2000 years ago or that Jesus was a real human that got killed by the Romans - crucified - 2000 years ago.
It is a step forward because many believe He is just a myth. Once the myth becomes truth the next step can be taken with a solid foundation. Blessings
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,365
10,608
Georgia
✟912,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
It is a step forward because many believe He is just a myth. Once the myth becomes truth the next step can be taken with a solid foundation. Blessings
If the people claiming that the Jesus of the Bible is a myth are arguing the point because they believe there was no human on planet Earth 2000 years ago that went by that name, was born in Bethlehem and was the subject of Jewish and Roman opposition resulting in Rome killing the person - then you are right - that sort of opposition is addressed by Bart Ehrman.

But if they are arguing that no one born 2000 years ago actually did the miracles, lived the life that the Bible claims for Jesus - then Bart does not touch that one at all except to agree that such miracles never happened and in his mind are myth. In John 14 Jesus essentially makes the case that all the supernatural real-life works of Christ in His real life - show him to be the Son of God... in other words - all of those very things that Bart rejects are what "makes the case for Christ".
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Hello,

So far I have found the Bible pretty tough going - and I haven't even finished Genesis! Regardless of what I have tried to study in the past, I have found group lessons to be most effective and fun way to learn. I see there are many online Bible study groups. Why do they tend to be sex-segregated? Do they welcome non-Christians who are simply curious?

I can't speak about online Bible study groups as I've never been part of one, or sought any out. But I'll try to address a couple other things you've mentioned.

While having a men's study group, a woman's study group, or a youth study group is pretty common. There certainly are plenty of Bible study groups where it's men and women, and people of all ages. Usually when it is something like a women's study group, or a college study group, that's because part of the focus is on how to take what is read and studied in the Bible and apply it those particular circumstances: e.g. being a woman, being a college student, etc.

As far as a non-Christian coming to a Bible study, that is really going to depend on the group and what the sort of dynamics or focus of the group is. There certainly are seeker-welcome study groups out there, with the focus being on either people new to Christianity or who are curious about it.

It's actually quite possible that, if you are comfortable with it, you could reach out to pastors/priests of local churches and simply just tell them, hey, I'm not a Christian but I'd like to study the Bible, is there anything for me at your church? I'd be shocked if there aren't at least some, if not a lot, of churches out there which might have something for you to at least visit. Though, also understandable if you aren't comfortable with that. Also, that comfort level could depend on whether the study is held at the church itself or in a member's home. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable going to a church member's home of a church I wasn't a part of, and I am a Christian.

Also, as far as getting a start on reading the Bible. I wouldn't just start at Genesis as a first time read or study. I mean in a way it makes sense, Genesis is the first book of the Bible, why not just start at the literal beginning? But the thing is, doing that will be kind of a slog, as I'm sure you've realized. By the time you get to Leviticus you'll be cross-eyed with boredom. There's nothing wrong with a straight read-through of the Bible, it's just hard; and often that's the sort of thing that someone does much later after they've already become way more familiar with it.

Whenever I offer advice about what to do for a first time read of the Bible this is what I recommend:

Start with the one of the Four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). In particular, I suggest Luke. The Christian Bible is, rather intentionally, focused on Jesus. So, start with the main event: Jesus.

The reason why I suggest Luke rather than the other three Gospels, is because Luke is fairly easy to read. Matthew expects his readers to already know the Old Testament really well, John's Gospel is theologically dense, and so both Mark and Luke are great easy-access Gospel texts. Luke also benefits here because it's actually the first part of a two volume work, it has a sequel, the book of Acts. This means that as soon as the Gospel of Luke ends, the book of Acts begins. So as soon as you finish reading Luke, you can read Acts.

Where Luke is the story of Jesus, Acts is the story of Jesus' apostles after Jesus' resurrection and ascension. This means we also get introduced to the Apostle Paul, who takes up a lot of space in the second half of the book of Acts. And it also so happens that Paul wrote about half of the books of the New Testament. By the time you're done reading Acts, you will already know this Paul guy and his story and experiences, so that means if you were to, for example, read Paul's Letter to the Romans, you'll already know who Paul is and what his deal is. That's going to let you read Romans with a lot more information than you'd otherwise not have.

And yes, I do recommend reading Romans after Acts. Romans is considered by most people to be Paul's magnum opus. I've been a Christian all 41 years of my existence, I've been reading Paul's Letter to the Romans since I basically have been able to read at all. And I still read it constantly. Apart from the Gospels, Romans is the crown jewel of the New Testament--perhaps the entire Bible. It's that good, it's that important.

So that is the three-part introduction I always suggest: Luke -> Acts -> Romans. After that, you'll have a lot to work with if you want to start looking around the Bible. Some further reading suggestions:

The Psalms, sometimes informally known as Israel's songbook. A collection of songs composed throughout the period of the Old Testament, many attributed to King David specifically. These are beautiful, they offer wisdom and inspiration, they speak of the depths of the human condition both. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Maybe try reading Mark, it's the shortest Gospel, and provides things from different perspectives and angles than Luke's Gospel does. Or maybe try Matthew, and then when you see Matthew quoting a lot of the Old Testament, feel free to see what he's talking about by going back and looking at those older references.

The Epistle of James is a good read, it has some valuable insight into the human situation about our biases and the problem with our tongue.

Really, at this point, it becomes a springboard to try other parts of the Bible.

And along the way, it's good to ask questions and consult resources, especially good scholarly and theological resources.

-CryptoLutheran
 
  • Like
Reactions: shane50+
Upvote 0

shane50+

Member
Nov 28, 2023
23
8
55
North Brabant
✟5,294.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Married
I can't speak about online Bible study groups as I've never been part of one, or sought any out. But I'll try to address a couple other things you've mentioned.

While having a men's study group, a woman's study group, or a youth study group is pretty common. There certainly are plenty of Bible study groups where it's men and women, and people of all ages. Usually when it is something like a women's study group, or a college study group, that's because part of the focus is on how to take what is read and studied in the Bible and apply it those particular circumstances: e.g. being a woman, being a college student, etc.

As far as a non-Christian coming to a Bible study, that is really going to depend on the group and what the sort of dynamics or focus of the group is. There certainly are seeker-welcome study groups out there, with the focus being on either people new to Christianity or who are curious about it.

It's actually quite possible that, if you are comfortable with it, you could reach out to pastors/priests of local churches and simply just tell them, hey, I'm not a Christian but I'd like to study the Bible, is there anything for me at your church? I'd be shocked if there aren't at least some, if not a lot, of churches out there which might have something for you to at least visit. Though, also understandable if you aren't comfortable with that. Also, that comfort level could depend on whether the study is held at the church itself or in a member's home. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable going to a church member's home of a church I wasn't a part of, and I am a Christian.

Also, as far as getting a start on reading the Bible. I wouldn't just start at Genesis as a first time read or study. I mean in a way it makes sense, Genesis is the first book of the Bible, why not just start at the literal beginning? But the thing is, doing that will be kind of a slog, as I'm sure you've realized. By the time you get to Leviticus you'll be cross-eyed with boredom. There's nothing wrong with a straight read-through of the Bible, it's just hard; and often that's the sort of thing that someone does much later after they've already become way more familiar with it.

Whenever I offer advice about what to do for a first time read of the Bible this is what I recommend:

Start with the one of the Four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). In particular, I suggest Luke. The Christian Bible is, rather intentionally, focused on Jesus. So, start with the main event: Jesus.

The reason why I suggest Luke rather than the other three Gospels, is because Luke is fairly easy to read. Matthew expects his readers to already know the Old Testament really well, John's Gospel is theologically dense, and so both Mark and Luke are great easy-access Gospel texts. Luke also benefits here because it's actually the first part of a two volume work, it has a sequel, the book of Acts. This means that as soon as the Gospel of Luke ends, the book of Acts begins. So as soon as you finish reading Luke, you can read Acts.

Where Luke is the story of Jesus, Acts is the story of Jesus' apostles after Jesus' resurrection and ascension. This means we also get introduced to the Apostle Paul, who takes up a lot of space in the second half of the book of Acts. And it also so happens that Paul wrote about half of the books of the New Testament. By the time you're done reading Acts, you will already know this Paul guy and his story and experiences, so that means if you were to, for example, read Paul's Letter to the Romans, you'll already know who Paul is and what his deal is. That's going to let you read Romans with a lot more information than you'd otherwise not have.

And yes, I do recommend reading Romans after Acts. Romans is considered by most people to be Paul's magnum opus. I've been a Christian all 41 years of my existence, I've been reading Paul's Letter to the Romans since I basically have been able to read at all. And I still read it constantly. Apart from the Gospels, Romans is the crown jewel of the New Testament--perhaps the entire Bible. It's that good, it's that important.

So that is the three-part introduction I always suggest: Luke -> Acts -> Romans. After that, you'll have a lot to work with if you want to start looking around the Bible. Some further reading suggestions:

The Psalms, sometimes informally known as Israel's songbook. A collection of songs composed throughout the period of the Old Testament, many attributed to King David specifically. These are beautiful, they offer wisdom and inspiration, they speak of the depths of the human condition both. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Maybe try reading Mark, it's the shortest Gospel, and provides things from different perspectives and angles than Luke's Gospel does. Or maybe try Matthew, and then when you see Matthew quoting a lot of the Old Testament, feel free to see what he's talking about by going back and looking at those older references.

The Epistle of James is a good read, it has some valuable insight into the human situation about our biases and the problem with our tongue.

Really, at this point, it becomes a springboard to try other parts of the Bible.

And along the way, it's good to ask questions and consult resources, especially good scholarly and theological resources.

-CryptoLutheran
Thank you for this very complete and concise answer. It looks like you put some effort into it.
 
Upvote 0

shane50+

Member
Nov 28, 2023
23
8
55
North Brabant
✟5,294.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for this very complete and concise answer. It looks like you put some effort into it.
I have taken your advice and started reading the Gospel of Luke. Why is turning stone to bread (Luke 4:3) considered a temptation? Why did he avoid answering the devil's question by saying Man shall not live on bread alone (Luke 4:4)?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I have taken your advice and started reading the Gospel of Luke. Why is turning stone to bread (Luke 4:3) considered a temptation? Why did he avoid answering the devil's question by saying Man shall not live on bread alone (Luke 4:4)?

So Jesus was in the wilderness to spend time in prayer and fasting, to prepare Himself for what was going to come after: His ministry.

The devil tempting Jesus to turn stone to bread is on the surface really simple: Jesus was fasting, He was probably very hungry. It was a simple "give in to this", and it doesn't seem on its own that serious. After all, would it be the worse thing in the world if you stumbled a little bit when you were trying to fast and eat a bit of bread? That's not the worst thing in the world.

There's two reasons why this is a more significant temptation:

1) It doesn't end with bread. The devil didn't really care if Jesus ate food or not. The devil's goal is shown more obvious in the later temptations.
2) It's more than just satisfy hunger, it's "Use your divine power selfishly". It's not "there's some bread here, why not eat it?" It's "turn these stones into bread". It was "You can do it, you have power, you're the Son of God, go ahead, indulge yourself, be selfish, use your authority and power for selfish gain". The deeper temptation isn't just satisfying hunger.

Jesus doesn't avoid answering, Jesus' answer was essentially, "Go away". By spending time alone fasting and in prayer, Jesus was putting His focus on God--the devil's temptation was "go on, you're hungry, eat, you can do it, you're the Son of God, use your power to satisfy this one little craving, this little desire"--to appeal to desire and selfish impulse. Jesus says "Go away", "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word from the mouth of God". That is a direct rebuttal, a rejection, of the devil's temptation. "I'm not going to listen to you, go away, this feeling of hunger is temporary, food sustains the belly only for a moment, but God satisfies something deeper".

TL;DR version:

The temptation wasn't just "eat food", but "abuse Your Divine power and authority to satisfy Your own desire" with the intent to keep tempting (which the devil does anyway); and Jesus' response isn't avoiding, but a head-on rejection: He will not give in, but will rely entirely on His Father, and will never turn away from the path He is now firmly set upon.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

shane50+

Member
Nov 28, 2023
23
8
55
North Brabant
✟5,294.00
Country
Netherlands
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Married
@ViaCrucis Thanks again for your clear explanations. However, I don't understand why the possibility of starving Jesus turning stone into bread would be considered using divine power selfishly or why his answer Man shall not live on bread alone actually means Go away. I will park this and move on through Luke -> Acts -> Romans because I want to understand how the Christians interpret these unusual events. So far, you have been great help in achieving this goal! Since it's far from the my original question, I will post new questions on new threads.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0