Barack Obama, health care, and "change"

[Questioning Christian]

I would like to make a post, but for the first time in five years, I'm actually having reservations about posting something.

I have concerns that my opinions would be construed the wrong way.

The long and the short of it is that there is no change.

Barack will continue stealing from workers to provide for non-workers. It's the Democrat philosophy that they are Robin Hood, and they are stealing from these "evil rich" to give to the "deserving poor", which is built on the assumption that those who have things got them by questionable means, and therefore should have those things stolen away to give to those who are doing nothing at all.

However, if anyone would like to read my post, I have put it on my blog.

PM me for the blog address.

Warning: I don't bite my tongue on this one. Imagine my usual manner of posting, then multiply it by, say, a crack pipe. It's quite amped. So if you are easily offended or take things the wrong way, it'd be better not to lay eyes on it, but if you have a strong constitution and you like hard-hitting material, I'd be glad to provide the blog address.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I have concerns that my opinions would be construed the wrong way.

What makes you think that would ever happen here?

Sarcasm at it's best.

The long and the short of it is that there is no change.

Huh! Surely you jest?

Barack will continue stealing from workers to provide for non-workers. It's the Democrat philosophy that they are Robin Hood, and they are stealing from these "evil rich" to give to the "deserving poor", which is built on the assumption that those who have things got them by questionable means, and therefore should have those things stolen away to give to those who are doing nothing at all.

However, if anyone would like to read my post, I have put it on my blog.

PM me for the blog address.

Warning: I don't bite my tongue on this one. Imagine my usual manner of posting, then multiply it by, say, a crack pipe. It's quite amped. So if you are easily offended or take things the wrong way, it'd be better not to lay eyes on it, but if you have a strong constitution and you like hard-hitting material, I'd be glad to provide the blog address.

You sound more radical than me. Sorry QC, I don't have the time for it, least not tonight.

In the end, President Obama is no better or no worse than any of the other presidents who have ever lived in the White House, except maybe the late great President Reagan, and even he had flaws and missgivings. Obama is a pupet on a string, he truely is the chosen one. It's just sad to see so many fall for him.

I just wish people would learn that looking towards government to solve problems is not the answer, and that only looking to God is.

 

[obsolete]

you can pm that address to me

 

[brinny]

I would like to make a post, but for the first time in five years, I'm actually having reservations about posting something.

I have concerns that my opinions would be construed the wrong way.

The long and the short of it is that there is no change.

Barack will continue stealing from workers to provide for non-workers. It's the Democrat philosophy that they are Robin Hood, and they are stealing from these "evil rich" to give to the "deserving poor", which is built on the assumption that those who have things got them by questionable means, and therefore should have those things stolen away to give to those who are doing nothing at all.

However, if anyone would like to read my post, I have put it on my blog.

PM me for the blog address.

Warning: I don't bite my tongue on this one. Imagine my usual manner of posting, then multiply it by, say, a crack pipe. It's quite amped. So if you are easily offended or take things the wrong way, it'd be better not to lay eyes on it, but if you have a strong constitution and you like hard-hitting material, I'd be glad to provide the blog address.

i'm interested. I pm'd you.

 

[Tenebrae]

Its more about society helping those who can not fully participate in the market place. We can argue that it should be the churches place to do it

There will always be those who scam the system.

Does that make is any less important to help those who dont scam the system.


As a citizen of a country with universal healthcare I'd take it hands down any day over an insurance based system.

 

[AudioArtist]

Well if it wasn't for the Healthcare we have in England, my mother's illness would have cost us our all the money we had, plus our car, and our house - probably everything.

I've never understood Americans' aversion to universal health care, let alone Christian Americans' attitude to it. I read a political magazine monthly which veers towards the Right (The Spectator), as well as The Economist when I can. I'm actually fed up with the Left in the UK on almost ALL other areas (immigration, 'inclusion', other social benefits...) but not health care. Though you could say some social benefits are 'robbing from the rich', to say health care is is going much too far. It's a basic need - yes, it'll be abused by people, like all blessings will be, but that doesn't mean it isn't right. I'll look at this in a simple way: Do the rich really need to get that little bit richer while the less fortunate have their lives ruined by diseases and accidents that are no fault of their own? You can say - how far do we take this? But I can ask the same question. I may well be misunderstanding you here, but wouldn't your kind of philosophy - taken to its logical conclusion - mean most benefits would have to be stripped or tied into greedy corporations?

 

[Alpine]

Well if it wasn't for the Healthcare we have in England, my mother's illness would have cost us our all the money we had, plus our car, and our house - probably everything.

I've never understood Americans' aversion to universal health care, let alone Christian Americans' attitude to it. I read a political magazine monthly which veers towards the Right (The Spectator), as well as The Economist when I can. I'm actually fed up with the Left in the UK on almost ALL other areas (immigration, 'inclusion', other social benefits...) but not health care. Though you could say some social benefits are 'robbing from the rich', to say health care is is going much too far. It's a basic need - yes, it'll be abused by people, like all blessings will be, but that doesn't mean it isn't right. I'll look at this in a simple way: Do the rich really need to get that little bit richer while the less fortunate have their lives ruined by diseases and accidents that are no fault of their own? You can say - how far do we take this? But I can ask the same question. I may well be misunderstanding you here, but wouldn't your kind of philosophy - taken to its logical conclusion - mean most benefits would have to be stripped or tied into greedy corporations?

This what I keep pointing out to people. Why is it conservatives in other countries don't have a problem with it? Sadly most of the capitalist world has seen the light with not tying healthcare benefits to jobs as we have been saddled with for the last 50 years in this country.

Now look at the mess we're in. More and more employers are either dropping health benefits or getting worse benefits packages because of the increasing costs. I know my Aunt and Uncle pay up the nose for health benefits for their 15 workers with their small business. Something like $600, and that's not counting the $200 their workers have to pay every month for it as well. Health insurance is extremely expensive and the problem is not only going to get much worse if we do nothing, it will devastate us economically if we don't get a handle on it soon.

 

[BenAdam]

This what I keep pointing out to people. Why is it conservatives in other countries don't have a problem with it? Sadly most of the capitalist world has seen the light with not tying healthcare benefits to jobs as we have been saddled with for the last 50 years in this country.

Now look at the mess we're in. More and more employers are either dropping health benefits or getting worse benefits packages because of the increasing costs. I know my Aunt and Uncle pay up the nose for health benefits for their 15 workers with their small business. Something like $600, and that's not counting the $200 their workers have to pay every month for it as well. Health insurance is extremely expensive and the problem is not only going to get much worse if we do nothing, it will devastate us economically if we don't get a handle on it soon.

One reason health care is so expensive is because of insurance. Save the money you would have put into a employer provided health plan by using a MSA and get catastrophic coverage. There are health providers popping up that are willing to give lower prices for cash payers.

 

[Alpine]

One reason health care is so expensive is because of insurance. Save the money you would have put into a employer provided health plan by using a MSA and get catastrophic coverage. There are health providers popping up that are willing to give lower prices for cash payers.

Because a lot of people - myself included A) have pre-existing conditions that require a lot of health costs per year and B) don't have much cash lying around to see doctors with as seeing the doctor is a very costly thing to do.

Therefore people who dont have insurance tend to never see the doctor and only go to emergency rooms.

 

[BenAdam]

Because a lot of people - myself included A) have pre-existing conditions that require a lot of health costs per year and B) don't have much cash lying around to see doctors with as seeing the doctor is a very costly thing to do.

Therefore people who dont have insurance tend to never see the doctor and only go to emergency rooms.

So because someone is ill or has a medical issue it is ethical to force someone else to give money to ensure their health care is taken care of?

I know people have problems yet when we force via government coercsion (sp?) others to care for them, we in fact make the situation worse. I never want someone else to take care of my health issues unless they happen to be a direct cause of them.

I say these things as someone with serious issues myself.

 

[rahmiyn]

As a Christian, I very much believe in a system of giving to those less deserving so that suffering is lessened.

But, thinking strictly politics, I can see where the world would disagree. Dog eat dog is more the motto, and the world is less excited about helping the weak become stronger.

Having said this, I believe the insurance industry in America must be reformed in some way. Too many very hard working people simply cannot afford health insurance, and such should be seen as completely unAmerican. But, I'm not sure some of the proposed tax increases are necessarily the best answer. Somehow, we have to address the over-inflated healthcare costs, and the exploitative legal system, and reign them in before we can better provide quality healthcare to many more Americans.

What is not acceptable to me is to keep things the way they are. And, at least Obama is gutsy enough to rattle the cage. Surely, anyone can see if we leave things as they are, the whole health industry could suffer and many more will fall into the ranks of the hard working who are robbed of healthcare availability.

 

[BenAdam]

As a Christian, I very much believe in a system of giving to those less deserving so that suffering is lessened.

But, thinking strictly politics, I can see where the world would disagree. Dog eat dog is more the motto, and the world is less excited about helping the weak become stronger.

Having said this, I believe the insurance industry in America must be reformed in some way. Too many very hard working people simply cannot afford health insurance, and such should be seen as completely unAmerican. But, I'm not sure some of the proposed tax increases are necessarily the best answer. Somehow, we have to address the over-inflated healthcare costs, and the exploitative legal system, and reign them in before we can better provide quality healthcare to many more Americans.

What is not acceptable to me is to keep things the way they are. And, at least Obama is gutsy enough to rattle the cage. Surely, anyone can see if we leave things as they are, the whole health industry could suffer and many more will fall into the ranks of the hard working who are robbed of healthcare availability.

So the christian way is to force people to care for each other?

 

[rahmiyn]

Actually, Jesus takes it even further. He says if someone "sues" you for your coat, give him the shirt off your back as well. That's a fairly difficult teaching I would say, much harder to accept than his commands to feed the poor and give comfort to the suffering.

 

[BenAdam]

Actually, Jesus takes it even further. He says if someone "sues" you for your coat, give him the shirt off your back as well. That's a fairly difficult teaching I would say, much harder to accept than his commands to feed the poor and give comfort to the suffering.

You are dodging the question.

Is it the Christian way to force someone to give to someone else? Jesus' example deals with our response to someone doing wrong to us, not to our doing wrong to others.

 

[rahmiyn]

You are dodging the question.

Is it the Christian way to force someone to give to someone else? Jesus' example deals with our response to someone doing wrong to us, not to our doing wrong to others.

I was responding in a similar fashion. I am a Christian, and my response was how I feel compelled to "handle" Obama's imposed reform.

I don't think Obama or anyone has tried to label his reform as Christian. But, as Christians, we have to ask ourselves, how should we respond?

That's the vantage point from which I can only come.

 

[rahmiyn]

Maybe a better way to answer this would have been to say, that I don't think it's a Christian act to sue someone, but Jesus was telling us how to respond to someone who sues us.

I don't think anyone would look at what he said and interpret from it that it's somehow okay or a Christian act to sue someone. I also do not look at our government actions as Christian or not Christian. I can only look at how I respond to them as being Christian or non Christian.

 

[brinny]

Maybe a better way to answer this would have been to say, that I don't think it's a Christian act to sue someone, but Jesus was telling us how to respond to someone who sues us.

I don't think anyone would look at what he said and interpret from it that it's somehow okay or a Christian act to sue someone. I also do not look at our government actions as Christian or not Christian. I can only look at how I respond to them as being Christian or non Christian.

We are also bound by what God Almighty tells us in His Word...and that is to fight for righteousness, do justice, and not stand by while evil gets stronger. God vomits this from His mouth....the government does not have a conscience. God has given us one. We are compelled by Him to do as He does.

It is written.

 

[rahmiyn]

We are also bound by what God Almighty tells us in His Word...and that is to fight for righteousness, do justice, and not stand by while evil gets stronger. God vomits this from His mouth....the government does not have a conscience. God has given us one. We are compelled by Him to do as He does.

It is written.

Where? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but things Jesus said come to mind, like what he says about praying for ones enemies, or turn the other cheek.

With regards to healthcare reform, I do see the greater injustice in so many hard-working Americans not having access to healthcare. I want to see more have this access, because this could relieve a lot of pain and suffering.

Remember when the disciples asked Jesus about paying taxes? He told them to pay them. He is basically saying all money belongs to those who mint it. Render unto Caesar literally means give back to Caesar all that is Caesar's. I'm sure the disciples felt the money was theirs. They had earned it. And the taxes being levied upon society in Jesus' day was quite heavy. More importantly, the taxes in those days were not going to better society. They were going to feed the excessive lifestyles of the rich.

It means a great deal to me that Jesus would answer that question the way he did, and when I apply what he said to today, I feel our Christianity is seen more in our response to such things rather than our efforts to change them (which is something we do not find in the whole of the New Testament.)

 

[Tenebrae]

You are dodging the question.

Is it the Christian way to force someone to give to someone else? Jesus' example deals with our response to someone doing wrong to us, not to our doing wrong to others.

Which is more ethical to spend taxes on healthcare and helping those who need it

Or spending taxes on wars in other countries.

The thing is about universal healthcare, yes you could see it as forcing you to help others, however its also avaliable to you. I think when American citizens are choosing to die in another country far away from their families, because to return to America would leave them bankrupt with no support and their families a legacy of debt

I know of several americans who were in this position

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Where? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but things Jesus said come to mind, like what he says about praying for ones enemies, or turn the other cheek.

With regards to healthcare reform, I do see the greater injustice in so many hard-working Americans not having access to healthcare. I want to see more have this access, because this could relieve a lot of pain and suffering.

Remember when the disciples asked Jesus about paying taxes? He told them to pay them. He is basically saying all money belongs to those who mint it. Render unto Caesar literally means give back to Caesar all that is Caesar's. I'm sure the disciples felt the money was theirs. They had earned it. And the taxes being levied upon society in Jesus' day was quite heavy. More importantly, the taxes in those days were not going to better society. They were going to feed the excessive lifestyles of the rich.

It means a great deal to me that Jesus would answer that question the way he did, and when I apply what he said to today, I feel our Christianity is seen more in our response to such things rather than our efforts to change them (which is something we do not find in the whole of the New Testament.)

All that means can be summed up in give custom where custom is due, fear where fear is due, and honor where honor is due. No one minds paying honor where honor is due. Customs can be changed and there is no fear where the is the Lord.