Baptism is a work.

[Bible Highlighter]

Baptism is a Work:

According to the Bible, I believe it implies that baptism is a work.
I say this because there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is faith and not a work (Or a work of faith).
In other words, there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is what unites you to Christ but it is not a work in order to not contradict Ephesians 2:8-9.

Thus, these Christian groups will say they believe in “faith + works“ but they are redefining “water baptism” in an unbiblical way by saying it is faith (when in reality it is a work or work of faith). While water baptism is a part of the faith, it would not be a work that is any less of a work from other works of faith.

First, we see circumcision is a type of baptism.
A believer would first be circumcised in the Old Testament to show they were a Jew.
In the New Covenant, we believers are baptized to let others know we identify with the burial of Christ and we are Christian.

Colossians 2:11-12 says,

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."​

​

So in this above passage we see the spiritual inward working God does upon our heart when we are born again spiritually by God and it is paralleled by the outward rituals of circumcision and baptism. Note: We do not have to be circumcised. That is OT. But the point here is that God’s Word compares these two rituals as describing what happens to our inward man when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and the gospel message.

Second, according to Galatians 2, and Romans 4, it implies that circumcision is a work.

Galatians 2:3-4

“But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:”​

​

As we can see above here, Paul is expressing his concern about those who are wrongfully trying to compel believers to be circumcised. We learn more about this in Acts 15 in that certain Jews were trying to get Gentile Christians to be circumcised in order to be saved (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24).

Then Paul starts eventually starts to talk about how we cannot be justified by the works of the Law in verses 15-16.

Galatians 2:15-16

“We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."​

​

So Galatians 2 teaches that circumcision is a part of the works of the Law (Which is a ceremony we do not have to keep).

​

Romans 5:2 says we have access to God’s grace through faith.
Taking this verse into account, Romans 4:3-5 would then be saying that we are saved initially by faith or a belief alone.

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."​

Romans 4:1-6 it mentions the word “works” 4 times. It talks about how we are not justified by works in this process of being initially saved.

The point is made in Romans 4:9-12 using circumcision involving Abraham. Abraham first believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness before he was circumcised. This circumcision is a work because Paul was just talking about how we are not justified by works in Romans 4:1-6.

So the point here is that if the Bible is teaching that circumcision is a work (and I believe I have demonstrated that above), then baptism is also a work because one can clearly see the connection between circumcision and baptism between the two different covenants.

Three, some try to get around this and say that baptism is a work of God and it is not a work you do. Well, it is a ritual that does involve some effort on your part.
You do have to…

#1. Find the right body of faithful believers (Which is difficult in these last days).​

#2. Ask if they will baptize you and set a date to do so.​

#3. Show up on the date and go down into the body of water.​

#4. Relax your body so that they can hold you so as to dunk.​

#5. Hold your breathe as they submerge you.​

#6. Change out your clothes because they are wet.​

​

Other believers who baptize you, have to…

​

#1. Agree to baptize you.​

#2. Try to gather other witnesses if possible.​

#3. Find a proper and legal place to baptize.​

#4. Show up at the date.​

#5. Go down into the water with you.​

#6. Help to hold you so as to submerge you in the water,​

#7. Declare that they are baptizing you in the name of Jesus (Which is the embodiment of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - Colossians 2:9).​

#8. Change clothes because they are wet.​

Think. It is work if a swimming instructor trains somebody how to swim and or hold their breath under water.
Some say it is a work, and yet they say God declares that this work is faith and then they say other things are works and not faith.
However, words mean things in this life and God is not the author of confusion and nor does His Word contradict itself.

My position on water baptism:

Water baptism is a work of faith. Water baptism is an outward ritual that a Christian will do at some point in their life that signifies the inward change when they believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:-14, and they call upon the Lord Jesus (seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him) (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). Ideally, baptism happens after a person is initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works, although we do see cases in the Bible where initial faith and baptism can happen simultaneously. If possible, baptism I believe should be done after a person immediately accepts the gospel and sought forgiveness of their sins with the Lord Jesus Christ. Water baptism is not done to get initially saved and while it is required as a part of the faith, I do not believe water baptism is a salvation issue (See: 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 1:17). Water baptism is a symbol or likeness of Christ’s death (Romans 6:5). Only the spiritual baptism in being born again will help us to crucify the affections and lusts and to live as a new person in Christ (Being raised with Him - see Colossians 2:12).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, to complicate matters even more. Some Christian groups who claim to believe in faith + works believe in infant baptism. How can a baby have faith? They can’t. So it’s not faith + works if one believes “water baptism”is faith and not a work.

 

[bling]

You could not "work" on the Sabbath by God's definition of "work", but you could be circumcised because it is not a work. Worship is not a "work", just because you "worship" does not mean you are deserving of anything. allowing others to baptize you is an act of worship, so it is not a work.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You could not "work" on the Sabbath by God's definition of "work", but you could be circumcised because it is not a work. Worship is not a "work", just because you "worship" does not mean you are deserving of anything. allowing others to baptize you is an act of worship, so it is not a work.

Well, that’s making a giant leap of assumption between two different rituals in the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say these two rituals are connected? While priestly duties and doing things to worship God is not considered work on the Sabbath, where in the Bible does it say this is the case for baptism? You would need a Bible verse or passage that says that baptism is not a work or at least one that implies such a thing. I have presented my biblical case why baptism is a work and not exclusively something that is a belief alone or faith that is separate from other works of faith we are to do as Christians, like say: Preaching the gospel, helping the poor, loving the brethren, etcetera. In fact, James calls not having respect of persons among the brethren in loving them properly is a work (See: James 2). Also, Paul says there is a thing called the “work of faith” (See: 1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11). Ephesians 2:10 says we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works. So there is no such thing as a believer’s works being exempt and not a work like worshiping on the Sabbath. If so, you would have to prove your case with the Bible.

 

[Dan Perez]

Baptism is a Work:

According to the Bible, I believe it implies that baptism is a work.
I say this because there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is faith and not a work (Or a work of faith).
In other words, there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is what unites you to Christ but it is not a work in order to not contradict Ephesians 2:8-9.

Thus, these Christian groups will say they believe in “faith + works“ but they are redefining “water baptism” in an unbiblical way by saying it is faith (when in reality it is a work or work of faith). While water baptism is a part of the faith, it would not be a work that is any less of a work from other works of faith.

First, we see circumcision is a type of baptism.
A believer would first be circumcised in the Old Testament to show they were a Jew.
In the New Covenant, we believes are baptized to let others know we identify with the burial of Christ and we are Christian.

Colossians 2:11-12 says,

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."​

​

So in this above passage we see the spiritual inward working God does upon our heart when we are born again spiritually by God and it is paralleled by the outward rituals of circumcision and baptism. Note: We do not have to be circumcised. That is OT. But the point here is that God’s Word compares these two rituals as describing what happens to our inward man when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and the gospel message.

Second, according to Galatians 2, and Romans 4, it implies that circumcision is a work.

Galatians 2:3-4

“But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:”​

​

As we can see above here, Paul is expressing his concern about those who are wrongfully trying to compel believers to be circumcised. We learn more about this in Acts 15 in that certain Jews were trying to get Gentile Christians to be circumcised in order to be saved (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24).

Then Paul starts eventually starts to talk about how we cannot be justified by the works of the Law in verses 15-16.

Galatians 2:15-16

“We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."​

​

So Galatians 2 teaches that circumcision is a part of the works of the Law (Which is a ceremony we do not have to keep).

​

Romans 5:2 says we have access to God’s grace through faith.
Taking this verse into account, Romans 4:3-5 would then be saying that we are saved initially by faith or a belief alone.

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."​

Romans 4:1-6 it mentions the word “works” 4 times. It talks about how we are not justified by works in this process of being initially saved.

The point is made in Romans 4:9-12 using circumcision involving Abraham. Abraham first believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness before he was circumcised. This circumcision is a work because Paul was just talking about how we are not justified by works in Romans 4:1-6.

So the point here is that if the Bible is teaching that circumcision is a work (and I believe I have demonstrated that above), then baptism is also a work because one can clearly see the connection between circumcision and baptism between the two different covenants.

Three, some try to get around this and say that baptism is a work of God and it is not a work you do. Well, it is a ritual that does involve some effort on your part.
You do have to…

#1. Find the right body of faithful believers (Which is difficult in these last days).​

#2. Ask if they will baptize you and set a date to do so.​

#3. Show up on the date and go down into the body of water.​

#4. Relax your body so that they can hold you so as to dunk.​

#5. Hold your breathe as they submerge you.​

#6. Change out your clothes because they are wet.​

​

Other believers who baptize you, have to…

​

#1. Agree to baptize you.​

#2. Try to gather other witnesses if possible.​

#3. Find a proper and legal place to baptize.​

#4. Show up at the date.​

#5. Go down into the water with you.​

#6. Help to hold you so as to submerge you in the water,​

#7. Declare that they are baptizing you in the name of Jesus (Which is the embodiment of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - Colossians 2:9).​

#8. Change clothes because they are wet.​

Think. It is work if a swimming instructor trains somebody how to swim and or hold their breath under water.
Some say it is a work, and yet they say God declares that this work is faith and then they say other things are works and not faith.
However, words mean things in this life and God is not the author of confusion and nor does His Word contradict itself.

My position on water baptism:

Water baptism is an outward ritual that a Christian will do at some point in their life that signifies the inward change when they believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:-14, and they call upon the Lord Jesus (seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him) (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). Ideally, baptism happens after a person is initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works, although we do see cases in the Bible where initial faith and baptism can happen simultaneously. If possible, baptism I believe should be done after a person immediately accepts the gospel and sought forgiveness of their sins with the Lord Jesus Christ. Water baptism is not done to get initially saved and while it is required as a part of the faith, I do not believe water baptism is a salvation issue (See: 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 1:17). Water baptism is a symbol or likeness of Christ’s death (Romans 6:5). Only the spiritual baptism in being born again will help us to crucify the affections and lusts and to live as a new person in Christ (Being raised with Him - see Colossians 2:12).

One of the biggest DIVISIONS in the bible are When the OLD COVENANT ended ?

When will the NEW COVENANT means and when it is put into operation ?

The third subject IS what the meaning of DISPENSATIONALISM as Paul preached it . Eph 3:2

AND the one that causes more controversy is the word BAPTISM // BAPTIZO .

Just check what the word WORK // ERGON means , you will be surprised

When taking about BAPTISM , you will find the following Greek words , BAPTIZO , and also translated by the word , WASHED , and in EPH 4:5 the word BAPTISM is really is the Greek word BAPTISMA , then BAPTISMO , and the Greek word BAPTISTES

Then we see from John 1:31 that WATER BAPTISM was only given to Israel .

If the Greek word BAPTISM means WATER , in 1 Cor 10:2 and all were BAPTIZED unto unto Moses in the CLOUD and in the SEA .

So how were thousands of Jews BAPTIZED into Moses ?

What is the meaning of the CLOUD ?

What is the meaning of the SEA ?

dan p

 

[Bible Highlighter]

One of the biggest DIVISIONS in the bible are When the OLD COVENANT ended ?

When will the NEW COVENANT means and when it is put into operation ?

The third subject IS what the meaning of DISPENSATIONALISM as Paul preached it . Eph 3:2

AND the one that causes more controversy is the word BAPTISM // BAPTIZO .

Just check what the word WORK // ERGON means , you will be surprised

When taking about BAPTISM , you will find the following Greek words , BAPTIZO , and also translated by the word , WASHED , and in EPH 4:5 the word BAPTISM is really is the Greek word BAPTISMA , then BAPTISMO , and the Greek word BAPTISTES

Then we see from John 1:31 that WATER BAPTISM was only given to Israel .

If the Greek word BAPTISM means WATER , in 1 Cor 10:2 and all were BAPTIZED unto unto Moses in the CLOUD and in the SEA .

So how were thousands of Jews BAPTIZED into Moses ?

What is the meaning of the CLOUD ?

What is the meaning of the SEA ?

dan p

How is this relevant to what I said in the thread with baptism being a work?
You have to connect the dots with Scripture so as to defend your position that baptism is a work or not a work.

 

[Dan Perez]

How is this relevant to what I said in the thread with baptism being a work?
You have to connect the dots with Scripture so as to defend your position that baptism is a work or not a work.

Should be easy , by giving a verse that explains BAPTISM being a WORK ??

John 1:31 BAPTISM was given to ONLY Israel . PERIOD !and NOT to the BODY OF CHRIST !!

dan p

 

[Oneofhope]

Baptism is a Work:

According to the Bible, I believe it implies that baptism is a work.
I say this because there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is faith and not a work (Or a work of faith).
In other words, there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is what unites you to Christ but it is not a work in order to not contradict Ephesians 2:8-9.

Thus, these Christian groups will say they believe in “faith + works“ but they are redefining “water baptism” in an unbiblical way by saying it is faith (when in reality it is a work or work of faith). While water baptism is a part of the faith, it would not be a work that is any less of a work from other works of faith.

First, we see circumcision is a type of baptism.
A believer would first be circumcised in the Old Testament to show they were a Jew.
In the New Covenant, we believers are baptized to let others know we identify with the burial of Christ and we are Christian.

Colossians 2:11-12 says,

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."​

​

So in this above passage we see the spiritual inward working God does upon our heart when we are born again spiritually by God and it is paralleled by the outward rituals of circumcision and baptism. Note: We do not have to be circumcised. That is OT. But the point here is that God’s Word compares these two rituals as describing what happens to our inward man when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and the gospel message.

Second, according to Galatians 2, and Romans 4, it implies that circumcision is a work.

Galatians 2:3-4

“But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:”​

​

As we can see above here, Paul is expressing his concern about those who are wrongfully trying to compel believers to be circumcised. We learn more about this in Acts 15 in that certain Jews were trying to get Gentile Christians to be circumcised in order to be saved (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24).

Then Paul starts eventually starts to talk about how we cannot be justified by the works of the Law in verses 15-16.

Galatians 2:15-16

“We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."​

​

So Galatians 2 teaches that circumcision is a part of the works of the Law (Which is a ceremony we do not have to keep).

​

Romans 5:2 says we have access to God’s grace through faith.
Taking this verse into account, Romans 4:3-5 would then be saying that we are saved initially by faith or a belief alone.

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."​

Romans 4:1-6 it mentions the word “works” 4 times. It talks about how we are not justified by works in this process of being initially saved.

The point is made in Romans 4:9-12 using circumcision involving Abraham. Abraham first believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness before he was circumcised. This circumcision is a work because Paul was just talking about how we are not justified by works in Romans 4:1-6.

So the point here is that if the Bible is teaching that circumcision is a work (and I believe I have demonstrated that above), then baptism is also a work because one can clearly see the connection between circumcision and baptism between the two different covenants.

Three, some try to get around this and say that baptism is a work of God and it is not a work you do. Well, it is a ritual that does involve some effort on your part.
You do have to…

#1. Find the right body of faithful believers (Which is difficult in these last days).​

#2. Ask if they will baptize you and set a date to do so.​

#3. Show up on the date and go down into the body of water.​

#4. Relax your body so that they can hold you so as to dunk.​

#5. Hold your breathe as they submerge you.​

#6. Change out your clothes because they are wet.​

​

Other believers who baptize you, have to…

​

#1. Agree to baptize you.​

#2. Try to gather other witnesses if possible.​

#3. Find a proper and legal place to baptize.​

#4. Show up at the date.​

#5. Go down into the water with you.​

#6. Help to hold you so as to submerge you in the water,​

#7. Declare that they are baptizing you in the name of Jesus (Which is the embodiment of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - Colossians 2:9).​

#8. Change clothes because they are wet.​

Think. It is work if a swimming instructor trains somebody how to swim and or hold their breath under water.
Some say it is a work, and yet they say God declares that this work is faith and then they say other things are works and not faith.
However, words mean things in this life and God is not the author of confusion and nor does His Word contradict itself.

My position on water baptism:

Water baptism is a work of faith. Water baptism is an outward ritual that a Christian will do at some point in their life that signifies the inward change when they believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:-14, and they call upon the Lord Jesus (seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him) (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). Ideally, baptism happens after a person is initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works, although we do see cases in the Bible where initial faith and baptism can happen simultaneously. If possible, baptism I believe should be done after a person immediately accepts the gospel and sought forgiveness of their sins with the Lord Jesus Christ. Water baptism is not done to get initially saved and while it is required as a part of the faith, I do not believe water baptism is a salvation issue (See: 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 1:17). Water baptism is a symbol or likeness of Christ’s death (Romans 6:5). Only the spiritual baptism in being born again will help us to crucify the affections and lusts and to live as a new person in Christ (Being raised with Him - see Colossians 2:12).

You mentioned Abraham in your opening post. However, you didn't explain why Abraham, who is our "Father of Faith," could hold such a title if water baptism hadn't yet been instituted. While Abraham held true Faith, so did Job, Moses, Caleb, Joshua, Samuel, and David to mention a few.

What do you think is the basis for these people being Pure, Righteous, Holy, and Blameless? Water baptism was yet to be instituted into the Christian Faith, so how could these people hold a status of Purity? We should keep in mind that there is one God, one Faith, and one Baptism. Therefore, the Faith that Abraham had is the same Faith we are to have today. He is our model of Faith, though Christ hadn't lived, died, and resurrected from the dead.

What do you think of what has been offered above?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You mentioned Abraham in your opening post. However, you didn't explain why Abraham, who is our "Father of Faith," could hold such a title if water baptism hadn't yet been instituted. While Abraham held true Faith, so did Job, Moses, Caleb, Joshua, Samuel, and David to mention a few.

What do you think is the basis for these people being Pure, Righteous, Holy, and Blameless? Water baptism was yet to be instituted into the Christian Faith, so how could these people hold a status of Purity? We should keep in mind that there is one God, one Faith, and one Baptism. Therefore, the Faith that Abraham had is the same Faith we are to have today. He is our model of Faith, though Christ hadn't lived, died, and resurrected from the dead.

What do you think of what has been offered above?

Things are far different involving Abraham’s faith and the faith we have today. Example: Circumcision was necessary back in Abraham’s time.

”And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.“ (Genesis 17:14).

So a soul will be cut off from God’s people if they are not circumcised during Abraham’s time. This is the exact opposite today under the New Covenant.

Acts 15:1
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.“

Acts 15:24
"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

Galatians 5:2
”Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

Side Note:

Yes, I am aware of Romans 4:12 that says,

"And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”

But this is not an exact replica of Abraham’s faith. We are not told to seek out the promised land, and nor are we given the same exact instructions as he was given like sacrificing his son, etcetera. We walk in the same steps of our father Abraham being not circumcised in the sense that we believe first and it is accounted to us as righteousness and then we do works of faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Should be easy , by giving a verse that explains BAPTISM being a WORK ??

John 1:31 BAPTISM was given to ONLY Israel . PERIOD !and NOT to the BODY OF CHRIST !!

dan p

There is a distinction between John’s water baptism of repentance and the water baptism in the name of Jesus (See: Acts 19:1-7). The Ethiopian eunuch was clearly baptized in water, etcetera. The disciples did not make any mistake on understanding Jesus’ instruction to baptize (Which was done in the name of Jesus).

 

[Oneofhope]

Things are far different involving Abraham’s faith and the faith we have today. Example: Circumcision was necessary back in Abraham’s time.

So you are saying that there is more than one Faith?

And, are you sure that physical circumcision was a requirement for all who claimed to be Jews? Or, was physical circumcision a "sign" of Spiritual Circumcision, much like water baptism is a sign of Spiritual Circumcision for the modern Christian?

Please, please read the below passage.

Romans 4:9-11 NKJV - "Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also . . ."

True Baptism is a Work of Spiritual Circumcision performed by God, who is the Spirit, who is Christ. All three claim responsibility for Spiritual Circumcision.

Deut 30:6
Rom 2:29
Col 2:11

Spiritual Baptism is the Work of God, not that of humans. One God - One Faith - One Baptism

Romans 4:12 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."
Galatians 3:14 NLT - "Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith."

I encourage you, and all others, to study this topic . . . of Spiritual Circumcision, which begins in Genesis chapter 17 with Abraham. It took me about two years for my Spiritual Eyes to finally mature so that I could "see" this teaching which has been kept hidden since the beginning, as Paul puts it.

Curing a person of Spiritual blindness is one of the primary purposes of Jesus according to His own words in John 9:39-41 and this concept is also what got Stephen killed as he told the Jewish leaders in Acts 7 that they had uncircumcised hearts and ears. Who was there for that first teaching of Spiritual Circumcision in the New Testament? Saul, later renamed Paul . . . and he is the one who unpacks Spiritual Circumcision for us in his writings. Go figure, eh?

Enjoy this study! It will change your entire perspective on the entire Bible. You won't believe it.

 

[Guojing]

I recall someone in this forum once said to me, "Since you cannot baptize yourself and need another to do that for you, it is therefore not a work but rather your faith".

 

[Oneofhope]

Romans 8:20-21 NLT - "Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay."

Water is part of "all creation." If all of creation is cursed (by the Lord), how can something cursed provide Purity, Righteousness, and Holiness?

 

[Strong in Him]

Baptism is a Work:

According to the Bible, I believe it implies that baptism is a work.

Baptism is a response to the work that God has done in us.
It is a sign of the new life that he has given us, and is a Christian witness.

 

[Soyeong]

Baptism is a Work:

According to the Bible, I believe it implies that baptism is a work.
I say this because there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is faith and not a work (Or a work of faith).
In other words, there are certain Christian groups who claim that water baptism is what unites you to Christ but it is not a work in order to not contradict Ephesians 2:8-9.

Thus, these Christian groups will say they believe in “faith + works“ but they are redefining “water baptism” in an unbiblical way by saying it is faith (when in reality it is a work or work of faith). While water baptism is a part of the faith, it would not be a work that is any less of a work from other works of faith.

First, we see circumcision is a type of baptism.
A believer would first be circumcised in the Old Testament to show they were a Jew.
In the New Covenant, we believers are baptized to let others know we identify with the burial of Christ and we are Christian.

Colossians 2:11-12 says,

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."​

​

So in this above passage we see the spiritual inward working God does upon our heart when we are born again spiritually by God and it is paralleled by the outward rituals of circumcision and baptism. Note: We do not have to be circumcised. That is OT. But the point here is that God’s Word compares these two rituals as describing what happens to our inward man when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and the gospel message.

Second, according to Galatians 2, and Romans 4, it implies that circumcision is a work.

Galatians 2:3-4

“But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:”​

​

As we can see above here, Paul is expressing his concern about those who are wrongfully trying to compel believers to be circumcised. We learn more about this in Acts 15 in that certain Jews were trying to get Gentile Christians to be circumcised in order to be saved (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24).

Then Paul starts eventually starts to talk about how we cannot be justified by the works of the Law in verses 15-16.

Galatians 2:15-16

“We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."​

​

So Galatians 2 teaches that circumcision is a part of the works of the Law (Which is a ceremony we do not have to keep).

​

Romans 5:2 says we have access to God’s grace through faith.
Taking this verse into account, Romans 4:3-5 would then be saying that we are saved initially by faith or a belief alone.

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."​

Romans 4:1-6 it mentions the word “works” 4 times. It talks about how we are not justified by works in this process of being initially saved.

The point is made in Romans 4:9-12 using circumcision involving Abraham. Abraham first believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness before he was circumcised. This circumcision is a work because Paul was just talking about how we are not justified by works in Romans 4:1-6.

So the point here is that if the Bible is teaching that circumcision is a work (and I believe I have demonstrated that above), then baptism is also a work because one can clearly see the connection between circumcision and baptism between the two different covenants.

Three, some try to get around this and say that baptism is a work of God and it is not a work you do. Well, it is a ritual that does involve some effort on your part.
You do have to…

#1. Find the right body of faithful believers (Which is difficult in these last days).​

#2. Ask if they will baptize you and set a date to do so.​

#3. Show up on the date and go down into the body of water.​

#4. Relax your body so that they can hold you so as to dunk.​

#5. Hold your breathe as they submerge you.​

#6. Change out your clothes because they are wet.​

​

Other believers who baptize you, have to…

​

#1. Agree to baptize you.​

#2. Try to gather other witnesses if possible.​

#3. Find a proper and legal place to baptize.​

#4. Show up at the date.​

#5. Go down into the water with you.​

#6. Help to hold you so as to submerge you in the water,​

#7. Declare that they are baptizing you in the name of Jesus (Which is the embodiment of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost - Colossians 2:9).​

#8. Change clothes because they are wet.​

Think. It is work if a swimming instructor trains somebody how to swim and or hold their breath under water.
Some say it is a work, and yet they say God declares that this work is faith and then they say other things are works and not faith.
However, words mean things in this life and God is not the author of confusion and nor does His Word contradict itself.

My position on water baptism:

Water baptism is a work of faith. Water baptism is an outward ritual that a Christian will do at some point in their life that signifies the inward change when they believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:-14, and they call upon the Lord Jesus (seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him) (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). Ideally, baptism happens after a person is initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works, although we do see cases in the Bible where initial faith and baptism can happen simultaneously. If possible, baptism I believe should be done after a person immediately accepts the gospel and sought forgiveness of their sins with the Lord Jesus Christ. Water baptism is not done to get initially saved and while it is required as a part of the faith, I do not believe water baptism is a salvation issue (See: 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 1:17). Water baptism is a symbol or likeness of Christ’s death (Romans 6:5). Only the spiritual baptism in being born again will help us to crucify the affections and lusts and to live as a new person in Christ (Being raised with Him - see Colossians 2:12).

When someone has done a work, such as baptism, then the significance is not that it is something that they are required to have done first in order to result in becoming saved as though it were earned as a wage, but rather the significance is that it express trust and it is by that faith that we are saved. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while it denies that our salvation is earned as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works by grace through faith is nevertheless intrinsically part of our salvation from not doing good works. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to become saved as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong by obeying what He has instructed, and this is what it means to have faith. So it is not faith + works where we need to add our works in addition to our faith as if our faith were insufficient for salvation, but that works are the way to have faith.

The NT does not speak against becoming circumcised for the purpose for which God commanded, but only speaks against becoming circumcised for the purposes for which God did not command it. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect purpose, which should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded. So it is circumcision for an incorrect purpose that is part of works of the law, not circumcision for the purposes for which God commanded it. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12.

 

[Soyeong]

Things are far different involving Abraham’s faith and the faith we have today. Example: Circumcision was necessary back in Abraham’s time.

”And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.“ (Genesis 17:14).

So a soul will be cut off from God’s people if they are not circumcised during Abraham’s time. This is the exact opposite today under the New Covenant.

Acts 15:1
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.“

Acts 15:24
"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

Galatians 5:2
”Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

Side Note:

Yes, I am aware of Romans 4:12 that says,

"And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”

But this is not an exact replica of Abraham’s faith. We are not told to seek out the promised land, and nor are we given the same exact instructions as he was given like sacrificing his son, etcetera. We walk in the same steps of our father Abraham being not circumcised in the sense that we believe first and it is accounted to us as righteousness and then we do works of faith.

Abraham is the father of our faith, so our faith should be the same as his faith. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him. Either Paul only spoke against requiring circumcision for incorrect purposes or according to Galatians 5:2, Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised right after the Jerusalem Council (Acts 16:3) and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God, so they should not be interpreted as ruling against obeying what God has commanded, but only against requiring circumcision for an incorrect purpose.

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was justified (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed by being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his justification as a wage as the result of his obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was justified by his works insofar as they were expressing his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The matter of works depends a great deal on who is the active agent--the doer--of the work.

No one would, for example, deny that God's works have the power to save. Because, indeed, saving is God's work.

Baptism, therefore, most assuredly is a work; but who is the doer of the work? Is it the passive recipient of baptism? Well, no. The recipient of baptism is not doing, but receiving; the work is being done to/upon them.

When a person is brought into a hospital and the doctor examines them, or the surgeon performs an operation on them, it is the doctor or the surgeon who is the doer; the patient is a passive recipient of the work being done.

Is it, therefore, the minister of the Sacrament who is the doer of the work? When the pastor/priest acts to speak the words and physically applies water to the baptized, does that make baptism their work? And is this the work of baptism that can be said that is salvific--the articulation of words, of specific bodily actions, the application of water? Or is the saving work conveyed in these, but still distinct from them? Namely, the biblical language of new birth (John 3:5, Titus 3:5), of being united to Christ in His passion, His death, His resurrection (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:11-13, Galatians 3:27), of being washed with with the word (Ephesians 5:26)?

Further, we read that the preaching of the Gospel works and creates faith (Romans 10:17), is that the work of the preacher? Is it not God who does this work, through the means of preaching?

Yes, Baptism is a work--but it is not our work, it is not an act of human righteousness. It is the work and power of God. That God's work is conveyed, accomplished, through means does not make it any less His work.

For Christ did not nail Himself to the cross, but was put there by sinful men--yet the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ is the work and means of God's power exercised to defeat, disarm, and destroy sin, death, hell, and the devil. We do not say "Pontius Pilate saved us from our sins", or "The Roman soldiers saved us from our sins" Heaven forbid such blasphemy. But nevertheless, God the Son was arrested, tried, mocked, beaten, forced to carry His cross, and was fixed to that cross by the words spoken, and bodily actions of sinful and wicked men--nevertheless God, who in all ways is working for our salvation, is the Worker. For the cross looks like foolishness, but it is God's Wisdom and Power to confound the wise and the powerful.

It is the work of God that saves us. For saving us is His work. And it is His work, through means, that we can identify as God's power in action: Word and Sacrament. For the word is preached and is believed, not by human effort and will--but by the power and work of God. The sinner is brought to the water, and in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is baptized, and here the sinner is made holy by being clothed with Christ and washed clean of all sin and unrighteousness by the grace of God, and the precious blood of the Lamb of God covers every stain of sin and presents him/her as holy and blameless before God. Through bread and wine is received the body and blood of Christ our God and Savior.

I am not saved because I got baptized, or because I believed the right things about Jesus, or because I go up to the altar to receive the elements. I am saved because God works His saving power and grace through these means that I, powerless and helpless in my sin, should hear, receive, and be converted and by the grace of God restored to God in Christ, alive by the Holy Spirit, and now walking afresh with new life should be God's child--by grace I have been saved, through faith, and this is not of myself, it is the gift of God, not by anything I have done.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Oneofhope]

If we want to understand water baptism, it would be advised to study and know the entire Bible, not just the New Testament. Understanding how and why certain people were considered Pure, Righteous and Holy prior to the Life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus is critical.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Baptism is a response to the work that God has done in us.
..... and is a Christian witness.

Chapter and verse please.

 

[fhansen]

Believers follow Christ's commands. Works of the law, no. Works compelled by grace, absolutely-and necessarily.