Baptism and Fundamentalists

[DeaconDean]

From "The Fundamentals" we read:

The lexicographers, the grammarians and evangelical theologians are all pronounced against the interpretation put upon the words of Jesus when He said: “Except a man (anyone) be born of water kai spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” The lexicographers tell us that the Greek conjunction kai may have an epexegetical meaning and may be (as it frequently is) used to amplify what has gone before; that it may have the sense of “even,” or “namely.” And thus they justify the reading: “Except a man be born of water, even (or namely) spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” The grammarians tell us the same thing, and innumerable instances of such usage can be cited from both classic and New Testament Greek. The theologians are explicit in their denial that regeneration can be effected by baptism. They hold to a purely spiritual experience, either before baptism, or after it, and deny that the spiritual birth is effected by the water, no matter how applied. And yet some who take this position in discussions of the “new birth” fall away to the ritualistic idea when they come to treat of baptism, its significance and place in the Christian system. (It would be easy to justify all these statements by reference to authors and books, but space forbids the quotations here. So patent are they that we can hardly doubt the acceptance of the assertion by the intelligent reader, without citations in proof).

Fundamentals -3.11- Regeneration, Conversion, Reformation, George W. Lasher, D. D., L.L. D.

The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth, Book III, Chapter 10

And we also read:

Faith is a vital principle. "If it hath not works, is dead, being alone" (James 2:17,18). Two things are required of the believer, immediately upon his profession of faith in Jesus as Saviour and Lord, namely, verbal confession and water baptism. "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Romans 10:10. See also Psalm 107:2; Matthew 10:32,33; Romans 10:9; 1 John 4:15, etc.) "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). The believer is not saved because he is baptized; but, baptized because he is saved. We are saved through faith alone, but not the faith that is alone, because "Faith without works is dead, being alone." Water baptism is a divinely ordained ordinance whereby the believer witnesses to the world that he died with Christ, and is risen together with Him," an habitation of God through the Spirit. (See Matthew 28:19,20; Acts 2:38,41; 8:12,13,16,36,38; 9:18; 10:47,48; 16:15,33; 19:5; 22:15,16; Romans 6:3,4; Colossians 2:12; 1 Peter 3:21; 1 John 2:3; 3:22).​

The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth, Book III, Theology, Chapter 12, The Doctrines that Must be Emphasized in Successful Evangelism, By Evangelist L.W. Munhall, M.A., D.D​

There are groups that post here that believe one has to be baptized, (Of Baptism they teach that it is necessary to salvation, it is only through baptism that God's grace is offered.) And it is also "necessay and effectual to salvation".​

Now there is no mistaking it, they teach that absolutely has to be baptized in order to be saved, "it is necessary to salvation" and "is necessary and effectual to salvation". And without it, "we cannot be saved".​

Question: Is baptism as a necessay requirement for salvation a Fundamentalist belief?​

God Bless​

Till all are one.​

 

[pilgrim1999]

No. But I doubt that's going to surprise many who think otherwise.

Thanks for posting these excerpts from The Fundamentals.

 

[Albion]

The poll has three answers that are more or less identical plus one that describes the position held by Baptists? Shall we just declare the intended winner to have won and be done with it?

 

[DeaconDean]

The poll has three answers that are more or less identical plus one that describes the position held by Baptists? Shall we just declare the intended winner to have won and be done with it?

Are all Fundamentalists Baptists?

According to you, yes.

I cited references according to what was established as cornerstone beliefs held by Fundamentalists.

As a Baptist, I do not know where "The Fundamentals" is listed as a reference item for Baptist beliefs.

To the very best of my knowledge, the Baptists always use scripture as our standard.

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God, and are the only sufficient, certain and authoritative rule of all saving knowledge, faith and obedience.

Abstract of Principles, James P. Boyce, Section I, The Scriptures

It also says:

Baptism is an ordinance of the Lord Jesus, obligatory upon every believer, wherein he is immersed in water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as a sign of his fellowship with the death and resurrection of Christ, of remission of sins, and of his giving himself up to God, to live and walk in newness of life. It is prerequisite to church fellowship, and to participation in the Lord's Supper.

Ibid, Section XV, Baptism

Strange though, I don't see anywhere where Boyce says:

The believer is not saved because he is baptized; but, baptized because he is saved.

I'm wanting to know if Fundamentalists believe that baptism:

1. It is necessary to salvation, it is only through baptism that God's grace is offered.
2. Baptism is necessary and effectual to salvation.
3. Because without it, "we cannot be saved".
4. We are baptized because we are saved, not in order to be saved.

If you have a problem with it, please unsubscribe or bow out gracefully.

Thank you, Come again.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Faith.Man]

I voted. I'll join the discussion later.

 

[Albion]

Are all Fundamentalists Baptists?

According to you, yes.

Actually, that is the exact opposite of what I was pointing to.

You've created a poll that is virtually guaranteed to produce a smashing victory for the Baptist view of baptism, even though and as you have noted here, in no way is it the case that all fundamentalists are Baptists.

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

I agree with Albion. As a Presbyterian I am unable to post because no options even comes remotly close to the Presbyterian understanding of Baptism.

 

[FredVB]

I agree with Albion. As a Presbyterian I am unable to post because no options even comes remotly close to the Presbyterian understanding of Baptism.

The wording for choiced in the poll do not leave enough for voting. The saved should be baptized, but it is not everyone of them that does that, and thrte are those being baptized not yet saved. But baptism is a work, we would not be sabed by any of our works.

 

[Nova Scotian Boy]

Im sorry Fred V B i do not understand what your trying to day.

 

[Albion]

The wording for choiced in the poll do not leave enough for voting. The saved should be baptized, but it is not everyone of them that does that, and thrte are those being baptized not yet saved. But baptism is a work, we would not be sabed by any of our works.

No, Fred, it's not a work merely because we show up to be baptised. In theology, a "work" is (allegedly) a good deed--an act of charity or mercy, etc.--that is supposed to earn God's favor. Of course, I agree with you that such is an incorrect POV, but being baptised is no more a "work" than breathing in and out when listening to the sermon. That requires some motion, too, but there's no concept of it earning our salvation.

I of course agree with you that the poll didn't provide a choice for a number of very common views that are held by Christians, which is why most people feel they can't answer anything.

 

[DeaconDean]

I agree with Albion. As a Presbyterian I am unable to post because no options even comes remotly close to the Presbyterian understanding of Baptism.

You mean to tell me that Presbyterians don't believe in baptize the saved?

I do not believe that because my Grandfather was a ruling elder in Glenwood ASRP in Charlotte N.C.

And this thread isn't about the mode of baptism as it is why one is baptized.

Several denominations teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, and even go so far as to write into thier confessions that without it, you cannot be saved.

So basically, your telling me Presbyterians do not baptize because one is saved.

Nice information.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Thy WORD is TRUTH]

^ I had to climb over a wall and go past do not enter signs for mine lol.

 

[Albion]

You mean to tell me that Presbyterians don't believe in baptize the saved?

They do baptise infants, so I think that answers this question.

And this thread isn't about the mode of baptism as it is why one is baptized.

I have the idea that we all understand that.

Several denominations teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, and even go so far as to write into thier confessions that without it, you cannot be saved.

So basically, your telling me Presbyterians do not baptize because one is saved.

Perhaps you are just not familiar with or taking into consideration all the variations on this matter that exist.

 

[DeaconDean]

Actually, that is the exact opposite of what I was pointing to.

You've created a poll that is virtually guaranteed to produce a smashing victory for the Baptist view of baptism, even though and as you have noted here, in no way is it the case that all fundamentalists are Baptists.

You do know that there are other denominations that view one is baptized because they are saved not baptized to be saved don't you?

The Church of God baptizes the same as Baptists and there is no way they can be confused with Baptists.

Shall I go back and quote out "The Fundamentals" just what the proper method of baptism is according to Fundamentalsits beliefs?

And if you are going to detract from this thread, I really would prefer you not excuse yourself from it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Albion]

You do know that there are other denominations that view one is baptized because they are saved not baptized to be saved don't you?

Of course. What is your point?

The Church of God baptizes the same as Baptists and there is no way they can be confused with Baptists.

That's true of course. When I spoke of Baptists answering the last choince on the poll, I was summarizing; certainly there are a few other churches that hold the same POV. You named one of them. However, that leaves little choice for the majority of Christians to answer. But it's your poll, go ahead if you are upset that anyone should offer constructive criticism. Then tell us what you learned after everyone who answers chooses the same selection.

Shall I go back and quote out "The Fundamentals" just what the proper method of baptism is according to Fundamentalsits beliefs?

If you wish.

And if you are going to detract from this thread, I really would prefer you not excuse yourself from it.

OK.

 

[DeaconDean]

listen folks, I spelled out the position of Fundamentalists in the opening post:

The believer is not saved because he is baptized; but, baptized because he is saved.

The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth, Book III, Theology, Chapter 12, The Doctrines that Must be Emphasized in Successful Evangelism, By Evangelist L.W. Munhall, M.A., D.D​

And the question is:

Question: Is baptism as a necessay requirement for salvation a Fundamentalist belief?​

Stick to the question.

If you don't like the poll, you do not have to vote.

Anything other than what is asked will be regarded as "Off Topic" and treated as such.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Albion]

listen folks, I spelled out the position of Fundamentalists in the opening post:

The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth, Book III, Theology, Chapter 12, The Doctrines that Must be Emphasized in Successful Evangelism, By Evangelist L.W. Munhall, M.A., D.D​

That's the opinion of a few fundamentalists you agree with. It's certainly not the standard of this forum.​

If you don't like the poll, you do not have to vote.

As I said at the beginning, if you want a poll that doesn't tell you anything because it's so poorly constructed, go right ahead. Why you'd become hostile just because a few people suggested that it might be improved frankly surprises me.

 

[ptomwebster]

listen folks, I spelled out the position of Fundamentalists in the opening post:

The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth, Book III, Theology, Chapter 12, The Doctrines that Must be Emphasized in Successful Evangelism, By Evangelist L.W. Munhall, M.A., D.D​

...

God Bless

Till all are one.

I am a fundamentalist but I do not agree with all points in your definition of "fundamentalism," so you might have "spelled out the position" of some Fundamentalists' in the opening post, but not all Fundamentalists.

 

[VCViking]

Can someone complaining about the poll enlighten the rest as to what they believe in reference to baptism and salvation?

Also, the question was "Is baptism as a necessay requirement for salvation a Fundamentalist belief?"

 

[Albion]

Can someone complaining about the poll enlighten the rest as to what they believe in reference to baptism and salvation?

Also, the question was "Is baptism as a necessay requirement for salvation a Fundamentalist belief?"

Right. That was the question, and the poll give us three nearly identical choices for anyone wanting to say "Yes, it is necessary" and one only that says it is not.

Doesn't that explain the problem right there?