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<blockquote data-quote="hedrick" data-source="post: 59740757" data-attributes="member: 239032"><p>I don't disagree that lives should show evidence of our faith. But the overall impression of the OP bothers me. People generally become Christian because Christian lives attract them. I doubt anyone will survive as a Christian if they think the Christian life is unattractive, but they have to do it to get to heaven. There are certain types of pleasure you give up, and it does require self-discipline. But most things in life that are worth doing require some kind of self-discipline.</p><p></p><p>It seems that you're concerned because you life doesn't look like those around you. Do you find their lives attractive? Do you want that for yourself? From the posting it doesn't sound like it. </p><p></p><p>I have some concerns about the image of being a Christian that you seem to be assuming:</p><p></p><p>1. </p><p></p><p>Christians get mad, too. Now and then they yell at people. It's not ideal, and being a Christian does mean we treat other people right, but it doesn't stop us from being human. The main thing would be that you care about how your actions affect other people. There are things you can do, such as temporarily going somewhere else until you get control. But that won't always work. When you calm down you should talk to the person, make any apologies you need to, and try to patch things up. Getting angry at someone is certainly not going to lose your salvation.</p><p></p><p>Is it possible that you're taking too legalistic a view of what it means to be a Christian? Jesus' approach to changing lives is that they change from within. To get good fruit, you start with a good tree, and that comes from love of God and neighbor. It doesn't come from trying to avoid a list of sins, and being constantly afraid that if you fail you'll lose your salvation. I commend bling's posting.</p><p></p><p>2. I don't think you're going to succeed if you're just trying to avoid hell. If you don't start out by loving God and your neighbor, you're going to end up as a bad imitation of a Christian, operating from lists of Christian rules, instead of from love.</p><p></p><p>3. Christians can be wild and have fun. They just try to make sure that their fun is good fun. I applaud staying away from sex until you're married, but that still leaves plenty of room to have fun with the opposite sex. </p><p></p><p>4. If you're thanking God for his blessings, you're a Christian.</p><p></p><p>My overall impression is that you are in fact a Christian, and you've started hanging around with a group that is pushing purity rather than obedience. By purity I mean that our goal is to keep our record clean. By obedience I mean that we follow Jesus, and spend our time caring about other people. If you look at the places where Jesus talked about judgement, he speaks more about people helping others than avoiding lists of sins. In the parable of the sheep and goats, the problem with the goats wasn't that they sinned, but that they didn't feed people and visit them in prison. The fact that you're so interested in doing ministry is more important to me than the fact that now and then you get angry and yell at someone. Of course avoiding anger does help us love and serve people, so we shouldn't ignore that. But I'd say that Jesus' comments on anger were intended to help you develop as a more effective servant, not to be a burden. Are you getting the impression from them that if you sin you lose your salvation? Do they teach justification by faith? Do they mean it?</p><p></p><p>Like bling, I would encourage you to get involved helping other people. If your church doesn't think you're Christian enough, I'm sure there are non-church opportunities for service, or other church organizations that are happy to accept help from anyone who wants to help.</p><p></p><p>I understand that Christian undertake service projects as a witness for Christ. But Jesus seems to talk about serving people because we care about them, not just as a PR campaign for Christianity. I would think we would welcome anyone who wants to help.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hedrick, post: 59740757, member: 239032"] I don't disagree that lives should show evidence of our faith. But the overall impression of the OP bothers me. People generally become Christian because Christian lives attract them. I doubt anyone will survive as a Christian if they think the Christian life is unattractive, but they have to do it to get to heaven. There are certain types of pleasure you give up, and it does require self-discipline. But most things in life that are worth doing require some kind of self-discipline. It seems that you're concerned because you life doesn't look like those around you. Do you find their lives attractive? Do you want that for yourself? From the posting it doesn't sound like it. I have some concerns about the image of being a Christian that you seem to be assuming: 1. Christians get mad, too. Now and then they yell at people. It's not ideal, and being a Christian does mean we treat other people right, but it doesn't stop us from being human. The main thing would be that you care about how your actions affect other people. There are things you can do, such as temporarily going somewhere else until you get control. But that won't always work. When you calm down you should talk to the person, make any apologies you need to, and try to patch things up. Getting angry at someone is certainly not going to lose your salvation. Is it possible that you're taking too legalistic a view of what it means to be a Christian? Jesus' approach to changing lives is that they change from within. To get good fruit, you start with a good tree, and that comes from love of God and neighbor. It doesn't come from trying to avoid a list of sins, and being constantly afraid that if you fail you'll lose your salvation. I commend bling's posting. 2. I don't think you're going to succeed if you're just trying to avoid hell. If you don't start out by loving God and your neighbor, you're going to end up as a bad imitation of a Christian, operating from lists of Christian rules, instead of from love. 3. Christians can be wild and have fun. They just try to make sure that their fun is good fun. I applaud staying away from sex until you're married, but that still leaves plenty of room to have fun with the opposite sex. 4. If you're thanking God for his blessings, you're a Christian. My overall impression is that you are in fact a Christian, and you've started hanging around with a group that is pushing purity rather than obedience. By purity I mean that our goal is to keep our record clean. By obedience I mean that we follow Jesus, and spend our time caring about other people. If you look at the places where Jesus talked about judgement, he speaks more about people helping others than avoiding lists of sins. In the parable of the sheep and goats, the problem with the goats wasn't that they sinned, but that they didn't feed people and visit them in prison. The fact that you're so interested in doing ministry is more important to me than the fact that now and then you get angry and yell at someone. Of course avoiding anger does help us love and serve people, so we shouldn't ignore that. But I'd say that Jesus' comments on anger were intended to help you develop as a more effective servant, not to be a burden. Are you getting the impression from them that if you sin you lose your salvation? Do they teach justification by faith? Do they mean it? Like bling, I would encourage you to get involved helping other people. If your church doesn't think you're Christian enough, I'm sure there are non-church opportunities for service, or other church organizations that are happy to accept help from anyone who wants to help. I understand that Christian undertake service projects as a witness for Christ. But Jesus seems to talk about serving people because we care about them, not just as a PR campaign for Christianity. I would think we would welcome anyone who wants to help. [/QUOTE]
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