Audi Admits 2.1 Million Cars Have Volkswagen Emission Cheat Device

[Vylo]

http://europe.newsweek.com/audi-admits-2-1m-cars-have-volkswagen-emission-cheat-device-333738

The luxury car company Audi has admitted that 2.1 million of its cars worldwide were fitted with the same software that allowed Volkswagen (VW) to cheat U.S. emission tests, as the biggest scandal in the company's 78-year history continues.

Some 1.42 million Audi vehicles with EU5 engines are affected in Western Europe, with 577,000 in Germany and almost 13,000 in the United States, a spokesperson for the company, which is a subsidiary of VW, said on Monday.

I have to wonder if any American or Asian car companies have done similar things with their emissions.

 

[Maren]

http://europe.newsweek.com/audi-admits-2-1m-cars-have-volkswagen-emission-cheat-device-333738



I have to wonder if any American or Asian car companies have done similar things with their emissions.

As a general rule, I'm guessing not. We know BMW didn't, at least in the X5, since that was one of the models tested alongside the VWs; though VW (and Audi) apparently only cheated with their 2.0L diesel engine. The only other American company with a smaller diesel engine is Chevrolet -- though I'm guessing most companies diesel engines will come under scrutiny.

I suppose that someone could be cheating with gasoline engines but, since gasoline engines are not as "dirty", my guess is most manufacturers have not felt a need to cheat.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

It will be all cars with the same engine. You can add another million or so Skoda cars to the list, Seat will no doubt go down as well

 

[Maren]

I ran across this article that looks at the Chevrolet Cruise, which has a similar engine to the Vauxhall Zafira Tourer (Vauxhall is the GM car manufacturer in Great Britain, a sister company to Chevrolet). Basically Chevrolet borrowed the Zafira's 2.0L diesel engine and modified it to meet US EPA emissions requirements.

The article compares the differences in the engines to try and figure out what we can expect from Volkswagen's diesel engines after they have been modified to fully comply with the EPA requirements. What they found is that the VW cars with a 2.0L diesel engine and equipped with a urea system will likely lose 10 horsepower, 10 torque, and 10 miles per gallon from their EPA fuel efficiency rating -- the exact amount will vary based on the size and weight of the vehicle. They still question what might happen with the older Jetta and Golf cars that, prior to 2015, did not have a urea system built in -- these cars will likely lose far more HP, torque, and MPG, unless VW can find a way to retrofit a urea system .

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Hey, they have the American spirit. Forget government standards!

 

[NightHawkeye]

I ran across this article that looks at the Chevrolet Cruise, which has a similar engine to the Vauxhall Zafira Tourer (Vauxhall is the GM car manufacturer in Great Britain, a sister company to Chevrolet). Basically Chevrolet borrowed the Zafira's 2.0L diesel engine and modified it to meet US EPA emissions requirements.

The article compares the differences in the engines to try and figure out what we can expect from Volkswagen's diesel engines after they have been modified to fully comply with the EPA requirements. What they found is that the VW cars with a 2.0L diesel engine and equipped with a urea system will likely lose 10 horsepower, 10 torque, and 10 miles per gallon from their EPA fuel efficiency rating -- the exact amount will vary based on the size and weight of the vehicle. They still question what might happen with the older Jetta and Golf cars that, prior to 2015, did not have a urea system built in -- these cars will likely lose far more HP, torque, and MPG, unless VW can find a way to retrofit a urea system .

Sounds like VW diesel owners should, from this time forward, avoid VW service shops.

 

[Douger]

Oh those adorable Germans at it again with their high standards and efficiency.

 

[JustOneWay]

Simple government solution is to once again physically probe all tail pipes for accurate emissions.

 

[heatedmonk]

http://europe.newsweek.com/audi-admits-2-1m-cars-have-volkswagen-emission-cheat-device-333738



I have to wonder if any American or Asian car companies have done similar things with their emissions.

I would stand to bet that there will be an inquiry on all manufacturers after this has come out.
Really, how sorry is that? A cheat device.

All those consumers thinking they could trust the emissions promise for clean diesel when they signed on the bottom line of that loan contract or lease and promised to pay for what they were being lied to about. A "green car", actually wasn't.
I wonder if they can break their contracts based on the misrepresentation of facts on that particular vehicle?
Wouldn't that be news? Hundreds of people return their cars and break their lease or loan contracts because they were not getting what they were told they were paying for.

Now to really send a message those responsible for this, the top ones , should be put in prison. That would send a message and forewarn other car manufacturers should they think to deceive the government and the consumer.

 

[NightHawkeye]

I would stand to bet that there will be an inquiry on all manufacturers after this has come out.
Really, how sorry is that? A cheat device.

All those consumers thinking they could trust the emissions promise for clean diesel when they signed on the bottom line of that loan contract or lease and promised to pay for what they were being lied to about. A "green car", actually wasn't.
I wonder if they can break their contracts based on the misrepresentation of facts on that particular vehicle?
Wouldn't that be news? Hundreds of people return their cars and break their lease or loan contracts because they were not getting what they were told they were paying for.

A great idea in theory. Unfortunately, the reality is that those complaining would soon be lumped into a class action suit and rewarded with at most a few pennies on each dollar spent for the vehicle ... so as not to overburden the company. VW is too big to fail, don't ya know.

Now to really send a message those responsible for this, the top ones , should be put in prison. That would send a message and forewarn other car manufacturers should they think to deceive the government and the consumer.

That only happened with Enron ... and in the movies.

 

[heatedmonk]

A great idea in theory. Unfortunately, the reality is that those complaining would soon be lumped into a class action suit and rewarded with at most a few pennies on each dollar spent for the vehicle ... so as not to overburden the company. VW is too big to fail, don't ya know.

And that's why they and other big car companies do this. They know they're too big to go down or answer for their crimes. Making an example and breaking that same old same old, would shock the industry wouldn't it?

That only happened with Enron ... and in the movies.

Ain't it the sad sad truth.

 

[JustOneWay]

Why do some conservatives care about this story? They don't really care about pollution anyways....

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Emissions testing is pretty much a joke in many states. Where I live in Ohio, the requirements literally vary from county to county.

For example, the county I live in requires an e-check every other year on vehicles older than 4 years old. However, 2 of the 4 adjacent counties don't.

As to why some conservatives care about the story, it provides the same kind of satisfaction that the democrats got from the Ted Haggard scandal. Many conservatives probably have grown tired of hearing a few folks on the left drone on about how "we should have more government oversight like they do in Germany...then we wouldn't have corporate corruption".

This story gives them the opportunity to look at those few on the left and say "...you were saying????"

 

[Douger]

Simple government solution is to once again physically probe all tail pipes for accurate emissions.

Keep the government out of my tail pipe!

 

[JustOneWay]

I understand. Big business cheats on pollution, and somehow this is the fault of the left....and Ted Haggart.


LOL

Thanks for answering that some conservatives don't really care about the pollution as much as a way to point a finger. That is what I thought.....

 

[JustOneWay]

Keep the government out of my tail pipe!

It is a small probe and leaves no residue....

 

[Maren]

Simple government solution is to once again physically probe all tail pipes for accurate emissions.

Of course, the issue with that is that these cars apparently do pass most emissions tests with the probe in the tailpipe, which hook the car up to a dyno. In fact, one video I saw admitted that most cars have software to detect if they are on a dyno -- that they need to adjust the traction and stability controls, since only the front wheels are turning. The way VW was caught was the Clean Diesel group, seeking to show just how clean modern diesel car engines run, were doing real life driving on highways with the emissions probe -- since the car didn't realize it was being tested (not being on a dyno) it did not turn on the emissions control.

It sounds like VW could just adapt the software to have their emissions controls -- those that turn on when the car is on a dyno -- turned on all the time. That may be the fix for the cars that already have a urea (Adblue) system already installed. The problem is that the cars will lose performance (one estimate is 10 horsepower and torque) and fuel economy (possibly 10 mpg, on the Jetta taking it from 36 combined mpg down to 26) -- and owners will want to be compensated that they no longer have the car that was advertised.

The bigger issue will be on the cars without a urea system. On those cars, the performance hits look as if they could be incredibly large. The performance doesn't particularly matter on a dyno during emissions testing, it doesn't make a difference if it takes 20 seconds to get to 60, whereas that could be very dangerous to someone trying to enter a freeway. I'm not claiming that performance is that bad, though it could perhaps be, just that the performance will likely be unacceptable to current owners -- particularly given the specs VW made when selling the car. The question seems to be what they will do with these cars; that perhaps buyback would not be significantly more expensive than trying to fix the emissions without killing performance and paying a settlement to the owners. It will be interesting to see how VW decides to handle this and what the US government may end up demanding.

Since it was somewhat brought up, I think the other interesting question is how the government may attempt to enforce VW owners to actually get the emissions recall work done. Many VW owners appear not to care how much their car is polluting if fixing it means a loss in performance and fuel economy.

 

[JustOneWay]

Of course, the issue with that is that these cars apparently do pass most emissions tests with the probe in the tailpipe, which hook the car up to a dyno. In fact, one video I saw admitted that most cars have software to detect if they are on a dyno -- that they need to adjust the traction and stability controls, since only the front wheels are turning. The way VW was caught was the Clean Diesel group, seeking to show just how clean modern diesel car engines run, were doing real life driving on highways with the emissions probe -- since the car didn't realize it was being tested (not being on a dyno) it did not turn on the emissions control.

It sounds like VW could just adapt the software to have their emissions controls -- those that turn on when the car is on a dyno -- turned on all the time. That may be the fix for the cars that already have a urea (Adblue) system already installed. The problem is that the cars will lose performance (one estimate is 10 horsepower and torque) and fuel economy (possibly 10 mpg, on the Jetta taking it from 36 combined mpg down to 26) -- and owners will want to be compensated that they no longer have the car that was advertised.

The bigger issue will be on the cars without a urea system. On those cars, the performance hits look as if they could be incredibly large. The performance doesn't particularly matter on a dyno during emissions testing, it doesn't make a difference if it takes 20 seconds to get to 60, whereas that could be very dangerous to someone trying to enter a freeway. I'm not claiming that performance is that bad, though it could perhaps be, just that the performance will likely be unacceptable to current owners -- particularly given the specs VW made when selling the car. The question seems to be what they will do with these cars; that perhaps buyback would not be significantly more expensive than trying to fix the emissions without killing performance and paying a settlement to the owners. It will be interesting to see how VW decides to handle this and what the US government may end up demanding.

Since it was somewhat brought up, I think the other interesting question is how the government may attempt to enforce VW owners to actually get the emissions recall work done. Many VW owners appear not to care how much their car is polluting if fixing it means a loss in performance and fuel economy.

Interesting....

They were quite clever Thanks for the information.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I understand. Big business cheats on pollution, and somehow this is the fault of the left....and Ted Haggart.

LOL

Thanks for answering that some conservatives don't really care about the pollution as much as a way to point a finger. That is what I thought.....

You're putting words in my mouth...I never said it was the fault of the left or Ted Haggard. Clearly VW is the party at fault...

I was simply saying that the right (just as much as the left) enjoys a good "HA! told you so" moment.

It's no different than the satisfaction that a person on the left gets when they got to post the story about the Tea Party chapter leader who signed up for welfare benefits when he lost his job (after months of droning on about how welfare is evil)...

You asked why this case sparked interest among some conservatives...so I told you.

 

[JustOneWay]

I gave my response. I blame Ted Haggart.