Attitudes in Islam and Christianity

[glo1]

Hi guys

I would like to have a peaceful discussion about this, if at all possible ...

To explain what I mean I would like to make a rather simplistic and perhaps blunt statement, with which members here may or may not agree with at all!

This is just my starting point.
Please feel free to give me your views, and correct me if you think I am wrong. I won't mind!

But please don't get aggressive with each other and launch into a heated theological debate!
I'm sure we have plenty of those going elsewhere ...

Here goes:

It seems to me that Christianity requires its followers to ponder and interpret scripture, make decisions and personal choices; whereas Islam is much more directive and requires obedience without questioning.

I am sure there will be voices for and against this statement from both groups ... please feel free to contribute.
Any thoughts and comments on this?

Peace

glo

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It seems to me that Christianity requires its followers to ponder and interpret scripture, make decisions and personal choices; whereas Islam is much more directive and requires obedience without questioning.

Sounds like Catholicism and Islam have a lot in common then.
Islam follows Muhammad and revere the "mary" of the NT, and Catholics follow the pope and also revere the "mary" of the NT.

Luke 21:7 "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because the redemption of you draws near."

 

[baobobtree]

Islam follows Muhammad and revere the "mary" of the NT, and Catholics follow the pope and also revere the "mary" of the NT.

I've never noticed this before, but your right. Muslims also used to have someone called a Caliph who Sunnis followed like a Pope of sorts, and an Imam whom the Shias followed. Both lineages eventually died out though.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I've never noticed this before, but your right. Muslims also used to have someone called a Caliph who Sunnis followed like a Pope of sorts, and an Imam whom the Shias followed. Both lineages eventually died out though.

This should be "Catholicism/Orthodoxs" as most Christians [non-catholics] DO NOT revere her like Islam and Catholics do.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen...=a3146ea8-5c72-4be2-b9ce-f688c0cf6b49&k=37391

Islam and Christianity revere Mary above all other women, a human divinely appointed to bear Jesus in a virgin birth. But the Koran mentions Mary 34 times, and names an entire chapter after her -- more than she gets in the Bible, according to Cruden's Complete Concordance. She is the only woman mentioned by name in the Koran, and some scholars say Muslims actually revere her more than Christians do.

 

[Futuwwa]

It seems to me that Christianity requires its followers to ponder and interpret scripture, make decisions and personal choices; whereas Islam is much more directive and requires obedience without questioning.

Shouldn't that be "Protestantism" rather than "Christianity"?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Shouldn't that be "Protestantism" rather than "Christianity"?

I am neither catholic nor protestant so I suppose that just leaves "CHRIST-ian" for me.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5689751-islam-muslims-and-the-mary-of-the-bible.html

Matthew 17:5 While He is yet speaking, lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son, --the Beloved, in whom I did delight; hear Him.'

Reve 2:18 And to the messenger of the assembly in quateira, write thee! Now this is saying the Son of the God, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to white copper.

 

[Snowbunny]

gracias glo

i would tend to agree i think... in the movie Kingdom of Heaven, Queen Sybilla says "Mohamed said submit, Christ says choose" which i thought was very profound...

about Catholicism... i think i have been too vocal in representing what i practice... the Catholic Church is much bigger than just me, with many different rites, practices and even beliefs that are allowed. obviously if you consider the facts that i am latina and an opus dei supernumary, what i practice will look a lot different than other Catholics... something to consider

que Dios te bendiga

 

[Secundulus]

Shouldn't that be "Protestantism" rather than "Christianity"?

I have to agree here. If you can't subscribe to the creeds (filioque or not), then you are not really Christian, no matter what you think.

 

[Secundulus]

This should be "Catholicism/Orthodoxs" as most Christians [non-catholics] DO NOT revere her like Islam and Catholics do.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen...=a3146ea8-5c72-4be2-b9ce-f688c0cf6b49&k=37391

Islam and Christianity revere Mary above all other women, a human divinely appointed to bear Jesus in a virgin birth. But the Koran mentions Mary 34 times, and names an entire chapter after her -- more than she gets in the Bible, according to Cruden's Complete Concordance. She is the only woman mentioned by name in the Koran, and some scholars say Muslims actually revere her more than Christians do.

Do you have a problem with the scriptures?

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=36673696#_ftn1
http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=36673696#_ftnref1The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Lk 1:27-28

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you have a problem with the scriptures?

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Lk 1:27-28

Nope!@!! I wonder how much the Jews would revere her IF they believed she was the mother of their Messiah/Savior/Redeemer. But I suppose we will never know.

Matthew 17:5 While He is yet speaking, lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son, --the Beloved, in whom I did delight; hear Him.'

Reve 2:18 And to the messenger of the assembly inquateira, write thee! Now this is saying the Son of the God, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to white copper.

 

[glo1]

Shouldn't that be "Protestantism" rather than "Christianity"?

I guess you are referring to Protestant churches having developed differing thoughts in deeper theological areas, and consequestly splintered off into different denominations; whereas the Catholic Church continues more to be guided as one unity under the instructions of the Pope?

Thereby, in your view Catholics are required to follow the decisions of Rome, similar to Muslims who follow the voice of Muhammed (or, if his teachings need to be applied to modern life situations, the interpretation of reputable scholars)?

On a very personal level:
Would you Muslims (and Catholics, for the sake of Janissary's post ... if I have understood it correctly ...) here in this forum say, that you submit to Muhammed's teachings and to Allah (or to the instructions of Rome for our Catholic friends) without questioning and without putting the teachings to the test?

And if you do so, how then do you deal with it when there are areas in which you personally disagree? (Assuming that there are such areas ...)

Peace

glo

 

[Secundulus]

On a very personal level:
Would you Muslims (and Catholics, for the sake of Janissary's post ... if I have understood it correctly ...) here in this forum say, that you submit to Muhammed's teachings and to Allah (or to the instructions of Rome for our Catholic friends) without questioning and without putting the teachings to the test?

And if you do so, how then do you deal with it when there are areas in which you personally disagree? (Assuming that there are such areas ...)

Peace

glo

To be Catholic does not mean the same thing as to be Roman Catholic, although some will disagree. The idea of the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome was a medieval innovation that has only served to split Catholicism. Before that the Bishop of Rome was considered first among equals (amongst the Bishops).

To be Catholic means that your Church is Apostolic and that it believes what the Church has always unanimously taught to be true. This is embodied in the decisions of the first seven ecumenical councils.

The Catholic Church thus includes the Roman, Orthodox, and Anglican branches. They all are Apostolic and believe what the Church has always believed. The do not however all subscribe to Papal supremacy because this is not what the Church has always believed.

I continue to pray that the Bishops of all three branches will someday put away past error and human pride and reunite under one Catholic banner.

None of this is to imply that Protestant Churches are not Christian. However, they are not Catholic.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

None of this is to imply that Protestant Churches are not Christian. However, they are not Catholic.

Thanks for clarifying that. That appears to be the most heated topic on the Theology board and would probably be best to discuss differences there. Peace.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5674527-pope-other-christians-not-true-churches.html
Pope: Other Christians not true churches

 

[Secundulus]

Thanks for clarifying that. That appears to be the most heated topic on the Theology board and would probably be best to discuss differences there. Peace.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5674527-pope-other-christians-not-true-churches.html
Pope: Other Christians not true churches

The Pope didn't say that other Church's are not Christian. Everyone wants to mischaracterize what he said.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Pope didn't say that other Church's are not Christian. Everyone wants to mischaracterize what he said.

Good for him as I do not follow the pope anyway. He has already embarrassed the rest of Christianity with some of his remarks in the past.
Anyway, those here that want to see the discussion can go to that thread as I do not really want to discuss the division in churchianity anymore. [The atheists already bring that up enough LOL]

 

[anatolian]

The order in islam is 1.Quran 2.Sunnah 3.Personal opinion.

 

[benmaarof]

Peace

glo

Actually the Quran encourages it's reader to think logically. It wants us to use our God given intellect to reflect on the logical nature of God and everything else.

Examples:-

Quran 5.17 In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against God, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to God be longeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For God hath power over all things."

Quran 003.059 The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

Quran 005.075 Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

Quran 039.029 God puts forth a Parable a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master: are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to God! but most of them have no knowledge.

Quran
6:74Lo! Abraham said to his father Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error."
6:75So also did We show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth, that he might (with understanding) have certitude.
6:76When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set."
6:77When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."
6:78When he saw the sun rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to God.
6:79"For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to God."

Quran 29.17 "For ye do worship idols besides God, and ye invent falsehood. The things that ye worship besides God have no power to give you sustenance: then seek ye sustenance from God, serve Him, and be grateful to Him: to Him will be your return.

006.101 To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.

Quran 013.016 Say: "Who is the Lord and Sustainer of the heavens and the earth?" Say: "(It is) God." Say: "Do ye then take (for worship) protectors other than Him, such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?" Say: "Are the blind equal with those who see? Or the depths of darkness equal with light?" Or do they assign to God partners who have created anything) as He has created, so that the creation seemed to them similar? Say: "God is the Creator of all things: He is the One, the Supreme and Irresistible."


In Islam, there's no blind faith. In the Quran, you can find the reasons why we should believe what we should believe by giving logical reasons for them. All we need to do is to use a ittle bit of logic and reason.

Blind faith is just so medieval.

 

[seed757]

It seems to me that Christianity requires its followers to ponder and interpret scripture, make decisions and personal choices; whereas Islam is much more directive and requires obedience without questioning.

Gee, and this whole time I thought it was the exact opposite.

"Will they not, then, ponder over this Qur'an? Or are there locks upon their hearts?" (47:24)

"Verily, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the succession of night and day, there are indeed messages for all who are endowed with insight [and] who remember God when they stand, and when they sit, and when they lie down to sleep, and [thus] reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth: 'O our Sustainer! Thou hast not created [aught of] this without meaning and purpose. Limitless art Thou in Thy glory! Keep us safe, then, from suffering through fire!" (3:190-191)

"...Tell [them], then, this story, so that they might take thought." (7:176)

"...Thus clearly do We spell out these messages unto people who think!" (10:24)

"...in this, behold, there is a message indeed for people who think!" (16:11)

"...so that thou might make clear unto mankind all that has ever been thus bestowed upon them, and that they might take thought." (16:44)

"...In all this, behold, there is a message indeed for people who think!" (16:69)

"...In [all] this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think!" (39:42)

"...And He has made subservient to you, [as a gift] from Himself, all that is in the heavens and on earth: in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think!" (45:13)

"...And [all] such parables We propound unto men, so that they might [learn to] think." (59:21)

Let alone all of the injunctions laid out by Muhammad(pbuh) on the believer to seek knowledge for him/her self in the Hadiths.

Which is contrasted with:

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." Eccles. 1:18

"I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded." Rom. 16:17-18

"For it is written, 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart.' Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe." 1 Cor. 1:19-21

"Let no one deceive himself. If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, 'He catches the wise in their craftiness', and again, 'The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.'" 1 Cor. 3:18-20

"If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed." 2 Thess. 3:14

"But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels over the law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him..." Titus 3:9-10

So per the above Bible verses, one could easily surmise that Christianity doesn't put a high premium on discourse and knowledge seeking.

All in all, it is still only my observation and opinion.

 

[Secundulus]

Yes, Quran 7:176 is a great example of the value Islam puts on free thought. <sarcasm>

[7:176] Had we willed, we could have elevated him therewith, but he insisted on sticking to the ground, and pursued his own opinions. Thus, he is like the dog; whether you pet him or scold him, he pants. Such is the example of people who reject our proofs. Narrate these narrations, that they may reflect.

http://www.universalunity.net/sura7.htm

 

[seed757]

Yes, Quran 7:176 is a great example of the value Islam puts on free thought. <sarcasm>

[7:176] Had we willed, we could have elevated him therewith, but he insisted on sticking to the ground, and pursued his own opinions. Thus, he is like the dog; whether you pet him or scold him, he pants. Such is the example of people who reject our proofs. Narrate these narrations, that they may reflect.

http://www.universalunity.net/sura7.htm

You do see(reflect upon) the fact that said person is given complete free will to either accept or reject guidance, and the result of not accepting? Guess not.

Oh the irony.