Atheists......'splain them to me. Please. (2)

[Mandy_S]

And you believe history books but presumably won't believe the Koran. Would you accept that as an argument from a muslim?

That isn't a good argument in the fact that Muslims have alot of common ground with Christianity..That there is one God—the Creator of all things...The fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a prophet of God and Moses was a prophet of God.

 

[Mandy_S]

evolution doesn't deal with the origin of life, thats abiogenesis. Evolution started with the first singe celled organisms.

So then tell me how everything started.

 

[razeontherock]

That's Cosmology. Convenient isn't it? Built-in dodge, that lets unbelievers declare us ignorant no less! (LOL) Mortals either understand everything, or we don't. The evidence is in for the latter.

 

[hikersong]

Nope. I'm not interested in going around in circles so I hope you'll detect a pattern here. My standards, criteria, judgment etc means nothing.

I'm not going round in circles. I've responded with simple comments to points you've made. If you don't want to talk then just say so.

This appears to strengthen what I've said, rather than your position. If it doesn't, that only means I've done a poor job of communicating.

Well, I certainly haven't got a clue how what I said supports your comments. How about if you make a comment like that you then try backing it up with some reasons. That might help the communication.

I do wish you the best with your wife

.

The anecdote I gave is over 20 years old. We're still going strong. She's still an evangelical christian and I'm not. But thanks for the best wishes.

No retractions but again, if you're looking for definitions or standards declared by me, you're asking the wrong ... One.

So what's the point you being here then. Is it just some weird game. Come on. I know you believe Christ has the answers. Simply repeating that mantra is a waste of everybody's time. Especially when you do it as a way of evading responsibility for your own comments. Seriously. If you wanna talk, fine. But expect people to respond to YOUR comments.

 

[rainycity]

So then tell me how everything started.

Everything, as in the whole universe? The universe in its current state most likely began with the big bang. The universe in a dormant, potential state rapidly expanded. It wasn't literally a big bang or explosion, since there was no space for anything to explode into. Space, time and matter were in the dormant, potential state which expanded into the universe we exist in now.

That's Cosmology. Convenient isn't it? Built-in dodge, that lets unbelievers declare us ignorant no less! (LOL) Mortals either understand everything, or we don't. The evidence is in for the latter.

We don't understand everything. So what?

 

[Mandy_S]

Everything, as in the whole universe? The universe in its current state most likely began with the big bang. The universe in a dormant, potential state rapidly expanded. It wasn't literally a big bang or explosion, since there was no space for anything to explode into. Space, time and matter were in the dormant, potential state which expanded into the universe we exist in now.



We don't understand everything. So what?

That still doesn't tell me where the very beginning started. How did space and matter come about...It was dormant? Where and how was it there to be dormant?

 

[razeontherock]

Come on. I know you believe Christ has the answers. Simply repeating that mantra is a waste of everybody's time. Especially when you do it as a way of evading responsibility for your own comments. Seriously. If you wanna talk, fine. But expect people to respond to YOUR comments.

I never said "Christ has the answers." Quite useless to someone with no access!
I have said answers are to be found all over, which bring people to Christ. With no help from me, or the Gospel. And since you're familiar with the Bible, I would expect you to recognize my first statement about my standards being meaningless and non-existent; i.e., Biblical standards are what I am held to.

Is that foreign?

 

[razeontherock]

We don't understand everything. So what?

So dormant space makes sense, E=mc squared makes sense, but that means a LOT of energy is responsible for our Universe. Just the part(s) we do know about.

The word "God" means that. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else. Science has no explanation for the existence of this energy. Einstein said if you took the sum of all the physical laws of the Universe, you'd have God. More recently scientists have concluded that if there is a God, He must be far bigger than we've ever considered.

 

[rainycity]

That still doesn't tell me where the very beginning started. How did space and matter come about...

Nobody knows yet, but one possibility is that they are eternal.

It was dormant? Where and how was it there to be dormant?

It existed in a singularity, and this could have been caused by a black hole sucking in space-time and matter. So in other words before it existed in its dormant, potential state it existed the way it does now, and the current state of the universe will end by the same process. This could be an eternal cycle.

 

[hikersong]

I never said "Christ has the answers." Quite useless to someone with no access!...

...Is that foreign?

Raze, it could be that I'm tired, but you've still not answered my original question, and I don't see any sign that you really want to. I'm going to call it a day.

 

[Mandy_S]

Nobody knows yet, but one possibility is that they are eternal.



It existed in a singularity, and this could have been caused by a black hole sucking in space-time and matter. So in other words before it existed in its dormant, potential state it existed the way it does now, and the current state of the universe will end by the same process. This could be an eternal cycle.

Again, where did the black hole come from...Where did space time and matter come from to begin with for that black hole to suck it into.

 

[Wicked Willow]

Again, where did the black hole come from...Where did space time and matter come from to begin with for that black hole to suck it into.

You know, even "we don't know yet" is a better answer than "magic invisible man did it". Why? Because the second "explanation" doesn't require us to actually find out, and it cannot be tested any which way. You might just as well attribute the universe to a cosmic egg being hatched by an interdimensional duck or some such nonsense.

 

[The4thrider]

Again, where did the black hole come from...Where did space time and matter come from to begin with for that black hole to suck it into.

As much as I want to get into this, Its a circular fight. We are not going to be able to provide the answer you want. and because of that our position looks weak. Im looking for this same answer, I'm going to keep reading up on the subject

 

[Mandy_S]

You know, even "we don't know yet" is a better answer than "magic invisible man did it". Why? Because the second "explanation" doesn't require us to actually find out, and it cannot be tested any which way. You might just as well attribute the universe to a cosmic egg being hatched by an interdimensional duck or some such nonsense.

My point is, why do you dismiss the fact that there is a creator, when there are huge holes in your theory? Actually, at one time it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant but the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space.

 

[Isambard]

My point is, why do you dismiss the fact that there is a creator, when there are huge holes in your theory? Actually, at one time it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant but the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space.

I thought the Bible said the Earth stood upon four great pillars. Or was that the sky? I forget.

 

[Yab Yum]

You know, even "we don't know yet" is a better answer than "magic invisible man did it". Why? Because the second "explanation" doesn't require us to actually find out, and it cannot be tested any which way. You might just as well attribute the universe to a cosmic egg being hatched by an interdimensional duck or some such nonsense.

You're sounding like a dreary old scientist instead of a whimsical pagan. Next you'll be telling me you don't believe in the tooth fairy.

 

[Eudaimonist]

And I totally agree, it is an unbearable thought of people burning in hell for eternity...That is why it is so important to let as many as possible know that they do not have to endure such a thing.

I did say that I was done with this line of discussion, but there is something still nagging at my thoughts, and I wonder if you can clarify which side you take. I don't want to misunderstand you.

I don't recall if you said that non-Christians who had never heard the Gospel would suffer eternally or not. Which is it? Do they somehow get a free pass into Heaven or not?

If they don't, that means that millions of people who were born, raised, and who died as non-Christians, and who had never heard the Gospel, would suffer eternally. They would suffer eternally without any possibility at all of escaping their doom, and one they were essentially fated to since birth.

If they do get a free pass, then the worst possible thing would be to share the Gospel with them, because they suddenly have the possibility of ending up in eternal damnation if they don't become Christian. It would be the obligation of Christians everywhere to keep silent about the Gospel, in order to maximize the number of souls who make it into heaven.

Which side do you take in this?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Mandy_S]

I thought the Bible said the Earth stood upon four great pillars. Or was that the sky? I forget.

"He hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7)

 

[The4thrider]

"He hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7)

aka: Gravity.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Again, where did the black hole come from...Where did space time and matter come from to begin with for that black hole to suck it into.

Where did God come from?

No one knows yet what happened prior to the start of the Big Bang, assuming that the concept of "prior to the start of the Big Bang" even makes sense, since some argue that it may have been the start of Time itself.

IMV, the initial form of physical existence, whenever that may have taken place, was also the start of change. Time is the way in which we conceptualize change, so the start of change is the start of Time. Whatever existed initially did not come from anywhere. It simply was.

Of course, that's assuming that there isn't an infinite past, but I find that notion difficult to believe.


eudaimonia,

Mark