Assurance of Salvation according to John...

[Guojing]

Ok so you are asking does 1st John support that a person has assurance of eternal life by simply believing God's promise that all who trust in The Messiah have received Eternal Life. Does the verse below not state this, the believer knows, because they have believed.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

If I hate my brother or do not love him, what would 1 John say about that?

 

[Guojing]

Not correct - the indwelling presence of His Love is a gift that motivates fruitfulness - it is not of self works.

If I hate my brother or do not love him, what would 1 John say about that?

 

[d taylor]

If I hate my brother or do not love him, what would 1 John say about that?

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No Murderer Has Eternal Life Abiding in Him (1 John 3:15) – Grace Evangelical Society

Owning Our Theology – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[eleos1954]

The following is what John says about this important topic.
John speaking from the Father in heaven, not initiated by John nor man nor man's thinking nor man's plan.

From John 3:

6 No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.



10 anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.



14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.

15 Everyone who hates his brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


17 But whoever has worldly goods and sees his brother or sister in need, and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God remain in him?



1 John 5:

12 The one who has the Son has the life;

the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God,

so that you may know that you have eternal life.

//and who does not have the life//

we should examine our lives .... and we should be trending away from sin ..... not towards it.

 

[RoBo1988]

Not according to John, however remember that Paul excommunicated a young believer for unrepeentant sexual sin in order that he might be saved.

Yes. The church in the days of Paul, were quite different from today's church. People actually considered whether to join or not. Acts 5:13 The commitment was real.

 

[d taylor]

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Too bad, many look to their lives, fruit, love, obedience, labor, etc.. for assurance of their salvation.
When Jesus is constantly saying look to Me for your assurance because

Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Maybe some have actually never trusted in The Messiah for Eternal Life salvation, but have only trusted in themselves and their obedience's.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If I hate my brother or do not love him, what would 1 John say about that?

That I was never saved... This may sound harsh but the Truth hurts for our own good.

It is all about the gift of indwelling Love that constrains us from such sins.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes. The church in the days of Paul, were quite different from today's church. People actually considered whether to join or not. Acts 5:13 The commitment was real.

You raise a very important issue.

Many churches in our age lack both community and the fear of Him...

 

[Carl Emerson]

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Too bad, many look to their lives, fruit, love, obedience, labor, etc.. for assurance of their salvation.
When Jesus is constantly saying look to Me for your assurance because

Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Maybe some have actually never trusted in The Messiah for Eternal Life salvation, but have only trusted in themselves and their obedience's.

Yes this is a serious problem - such lives are often driven by unhealthy fear rather than His Love.

They are often the ones arguing hard for losing salvation - this is deeply sad.

 

[Soyeong]

A matter that troubles many is - how can I know I am saved.

The following is what John says about this important topic.

From 1 John 3:

6 No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.

Known repeating sins are serious and such matters should be disclosed to elders for prayer support and ministry.

10 anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.

Love for the family of God is a sure sign that He is at work within you and you are saved.

14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.

15 Everyone who hates his brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.

This is a serious verse - hatred of other christians is a sure sign one is unsaved.

17 But whoever has worldly goods and sees his brother or sister in need, and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God remain in him?

Another very serious verse - Refusing to share what one has with the poorer believers is evidence of not having God's abiding Love.

1 John 5:

God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

The evidence of having Jesus is a life expressing His Love.

Now the context of these verses is a fellowship living in community - a mode that many churches are not in.

You will notice John does not refer to Baptism as evaationidence of salvation - it is all about whether or not the Love of Jesus is expressed through your life.

Comments appreciated - be encouraged.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so the sign that someone is being saved from living in transgression of God's law is intrinsically that they are living in obedience to it. For example, someone honoring their parents is intrinsically a sign that they are being saved from not honoring their parents and someone loving the family of God is a sign that they are being saved from not loving the family of God. In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus but do not obey His commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen or known him, in John 14:6-7, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to see and know the Father, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, so again obedience to God's law is a sign of eternal life.

 

[Soyeong]

If what you say is true, John is definitely not preaching that salvation is by grace thru faith only, apart from works of any kind (Romans 4:5)

In Psalms 119:29-30, David want to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the only way of salvation by grace through faith alone. In Romans 4:5, it does not deny that our righteousness involves works of any kind, but rather it only denies that our righteousness involves works done to earn it as a wage. We express our character traits through our works, so to describe someone as courageous is to say that they choose to do works that express courage and it would be inaccurate to describe someone as being courageous apart from choosing to do works of any kind. Likewise, to describe God as righteous is to say that He chooses to do works that express righteousness and it would be inaccurate to describe God as righteous if He chose to not do works that express righteousness, so it would also be inaccurate to describe someone as righteous apart from choosing to do works of any kind.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so the sign that someone is being saved from living in transgression of God's law is intrinsically that they are living in obedience to it. For example, someone honoring their parents is intrinsically a sign that they are being saved from not honoring their parents and someone loving the family of God is a sign that they are being saved from not loving the family of God. In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus but do not obey His commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen or known him, in John 14:6-7, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to see and know the Father, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, so again obedience to God's law is a sign of eternal life.

Respecting what God has previously said is a bi-product of salvation.

In the New Covenant - Law is not the focus, but Love is.

Obedience is a product of salvation not a cause.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Friends I think that assurance of salvation is one of the most hotly contested issues on CF.

It seems that the enemy of our souls knows that lack of assurance leads to lack of confidence which weakens the Army of God on earth.

 

[Soyeong]

Respecting what God has previously said is a bi-product of salvation.

In the New Covenant - Law is not the focus, but Love is.

Obedience is a product of salvation not a cause.

In Titus 2:11-14, it notably does not say that doing what is godly, righteous, and good, and renouncing what is ungodly is a byproduct or the cause of our salvation, but rather it describes the content of our salvation as being trained by grace to do those things. Again, honoring our parents is not the byproduct or the cause of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents, but rather intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so God's law is the focus of the New Covenant, which is not different than love being the focus of the New Covenant because everything in God's law was commanded for the purpose of teaching us how to love.

 

[Guojing]

That I was never saved... This may sound harsh but the Truth hurts for our own good.

It is all about the gift of indwelling Love that constrains us from such sins.

So isn't "loving our brothers" a work that we do?

 

[Guojing]

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No Murderer Has Eternal Life Abiding in Him (1 John 3:15) – Grace Evangelical Society

Owning Our Theology – Grace Evangelical Society

Hodges comments:

But the Christian who acts so uncompassionately is not having a vital experience of God’s love. John’s rhetorical question, how does the love of God abide in him? means simply that God’s love does not abide in him. The calloused action of refusing help to his needy brother, even though he possesses the means, this world’s goods, is clear evidence that here is one in whom neither Christ, eternal life, nor the love of God are “abiding.” As Brown puts it, “The person described…is blocking the movement of divine love, which would lead him to treat his brother as Christ treated us, so divine love does not junction in such a person” [Raymond Brown, The Epistles of John, p. 450, italics added]. The uncompassionate Christian is not walking as his Master walked (cf. 2:6) and thus is not living the abiding life (Hodges, 1-3 John, pp. 161-62).

So by sharing that link, you agree that loving our brother is a work that we do?

 

[RoBo1988]

You raise a very important issue.

Many churches in our age lack both community and the fear of Him...

Accountability is gone from many churches in general. We all fall short, but it is His grace that enables us to live in holiness. If we are a part of His kingdom we will strive for obedience. Mark 3:35

 

[Guojing]

In Romans 4:5, it does not deny that our righteousness involves works of any kind, but rather it only denies that our righteousness involves works done to earn it as a wage.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Can you understand a statement as it literally says, instead of doing mental gymnastics like what you are doing above?

 

[Soyeong]

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Can you understand a statement as it literally says, instead of doing mental gymnastics like what you are doing above?

Romans 4:1-5 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

The works spoken about are described in verse 2 as giving us something to boast about and in verse 4 as earning our righteousness as a wage, so I am not disregarding what it literally says or doing any sort of mental gymnastics. Works can be done for any number of reasons other than for the purpose of trying to earn our righteousness as a wage, which do not give us something to boast about, so these verses speaking against incorrect reasons for doing works should not be mistaken as speaking against correct reasons for doing works. In Romans 2:13, Paul also said that only doers of the law will be declared righteous, so there must be correct reasons that being declared righteous requires us to choose to be doers of the law, such as faith insofar as Romans 3:31 says that our faith upholds God's law.

 

[Carl Emerson]

In Titus 2:11-14, it notably does not say that doing what is godly, righteous, and good, and renouncing what is ungodly is a byproduct or the cause of our salvation, but rather it describes the content of our salvation as being trained by grace to do those things. Again, honoring our parents is not the byproduct or the cause of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents, but rather intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so God's law is the focus of the New Covenant, which is not different than love being the focus of the New Covenant because everything in God's law was commanded for the purpose of teaching us how to love.

Fundamentally the very person of Jesus and the author of the Law takes up residence within us and inspires us to righteousness in accord with His character.

Walking in the Spirit then is learning to see what the Father is doing, just like Jesus did, and following Him.

This is a celebration of His Love and purpose.

Our focus is on Him daily and His will for us.

This leads to an exciting life that many miss...