As an atheist, will I go to Heaven?

[Tiberius]

I'm an atheist, and that isn't going to change.

But let's assume (as I'm sure most of you do) that I am wrong and Christianity is correct.

The question I put to you is, will I get into Heaven? After all, I'm a pretty good person. I help people who need it, I love my friends dearly, I don't commit crimes, I'm courteous and I try to make the world a better place in whatever limited way I can.

Now, matthew 16:27 says, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." This is a direct quote from Jesus.

So, as an atheist who tries to be a good person, will I get into heaven on the basis of this quote?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm an atheist, and that isn't going to change.

But let's assume (as I'm sure most of you do) that I am wrong and Christianity is correct.

The question I put to you is, will I get into Heaven? After all, I'm a pretty good person. I help people who need it, I love my friends dearly, I don't commit crimes, I'm courteous and I try to make the world a better place in whatever limited way I can.

Now, matthew 16:27 says, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." This is a direct quote from Jesus.

So, as an atheist who tries to be a good person, will I get into heaven on the basis of this quote?

Unfortunately, no. Single quotes are typically, though not always, contextualized by the full text of the book from which the quote is taken.

In other words, the Gospel of Matthew as whole insists that the real problem is that YOU are separated from God by your sins. No amount of goodness (or what you consider goodness by your own standards) will repair the breach between you and God.

The works that the quote about is speaking of are those that reflect a state faith or lack thereof. So, put your faith in the person of Jesus the Christ,and then you will have done the work that God requires.

 

[Benevolous]

I'm an atheist, and that isn't going to change.

But let's assume (as I'm sure most of you do) that I am wrong and Christianity is correct.

The question I put to you is, will I get into Heaven? After all, I'm a pretty good person. I help people who need it, I love my friends dearly, I don't commit crimes, I'm courteous and I try to make the world a better place in whatever limited way I can.

Now, matthew 16:27 says, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." This is a direct quote from Jesus.

So, as an atheist who tries to be a good person, will I get into heaven on the basis of this quote?

Imagine that a man rapes a woman and is arrested. He's brought before the judge. He tells the judge, "Your Honor, I raped that woman. In fact, I've raped several women. But what you may not know is that I regularly volunteer at the local homeless shelter. I mentor poor children. I walk little old ladies across the street. You can't send me to jail. Just look at all of the good things I do!"

What do you think the judge is going to say?

 

[nathanlandon1]

I'm an atheist, and that isn't going to change.

But let's assume (as I'm sure most of you do) that I am wrong and Christianity is correct.

The question I put to you is, will I get into Heaven? After all, I'm a pretty good person. I help people who need it, I love my friends dearly, I don't commit crimes, I'm courteous and I try to make the world a better place in whatever limited way I can.

Now, matthew 16:27 says, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." This is a direct quote from Jesus.

So, as an atheist who tries to be a good person, will I get into heaven on the basis of this quote?

We get rewards according to our works, but our salvation is based on faith and belief on Christ. The truth is no human is "good," and our little good deeds we do are like filthy rags to God.

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."Matt 10:18

"But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Isa 64:6


No one knows if you will go to heaven except God, not even you. Who is to say that sometime down the line you actually start to believe the claptrap you have heard from us crazy theists, and then your mind totally changes. You say your atheist views wont change now, but in reality you don't know your own future. If you desire to go to heaven, and you believe it to be a real place, then why not take the time to learn about how to get there? It seems you already read [some of] the bible.

Ask your self why you are dogged in your beliefs. I was (perhaps ignorantly) under the impression that atheists do not believe in an afterlife. What makes you believe there is one (if you do?) I have seen unyielding atheists make the transition to agnosticism and finally to theism. I, personally, do not know how it happens save to say that God had a hand in it. If you truly desire heaven, that is, to be with the King of the Universe and to fellowship with Him in paradise, then keep an open mind. God knows His own; many of us Christians started out as atheists and agnostics, whether knowingly or unknowingly.


EDIT: Also, if you are really, really ignorant of Christ (but I don't think you are, seeing as though you know enough about Him to quote Him,) God is merciful enough to reserve a "day" of teaching for those that truly did not know him - that is to say the 1000 year reign of teaching of Christ on earth. That "day" is reserved for people who had absolutely no way of knowing Him, or were completely ignorant of him for one reason or another.

He wants ALL of His creation to be with Him. The reason why he doesn't kill off satan, or the common atheist or the Christian sinner is because He is the God of Life, not death. Your cliche god would kill all dissenters and have a slave race of blind followers. God actually wants people to choose to follow Him. He isn't threatened by dissenters, but welcomes the challenge of persuading them in realizing His majesty, allowing them to choose to follow Him. To me, that shows how powerful He really is. Your common scared god would just kill off those that oppose.


A day with the lord is as 1000 years with man.

 

[nathanlandon1]

So being an atheist is the same as being a rapist in the eyes of your god?

A liar deserves the same fate as a rapist, or a murderer, or an adulterer, or a false witness, or a thief, or as a cheater, or as any transgressor is what he is saying I believe. In other words, you cannot claim that you are "good" just because you are charitable, yet you transgress against the holy ordinances of God. Therefore, because almost every human has sinned (save Christ,) no one can claim that s/he is "good" just because s/he does "good" things. If you lie, according to the word of God you deserve death. If you rape, you deserve death. All sin deserves death. Only by grace of God and faith in Christ can you gain salvation.


I highly doubt he was comparing atheists to rapist. C'mon!

 

[Jpark]

The best answer to this question is:

it's entirely up to God to decide.

Rom. 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

But we also have to consider 1 Samuel 16:7.

1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

A clean heart (which is the product of genuine repentance) leads to saving faith but a unclean heart (which is the result of not repenting) leads to stubborn unbelief.

So typically, a atheist won't be permitted by God to go to heaven, since he does not obey Him or know Him.

But is it possible for a atheist to go to heaven? Yes, if you believe God can have mercy on whomever He wishes.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

According to the doctrine of forgiveness, all the rapist need do is say "sorry," and really mean it.

No, the rapist has to "repent". Saying "sorry" with heart is just one little part of that.

 

[Benevolous]

According to the doctrine of forgiveness, all the rapist need do is say "sorry," and really mean it.

Not sure what the "doctrine of forgiveness" is, but if a judge chose not to sentence a rapist because he said he was sorry, then he would be an unjust judge.

No, the rapist has to "repent". Saying "sorry" with heart is just one little part of that.

Even if the rapist repents, the judge isn't going to let him go. The judge is going to say, "Of course you should repent, but the law must still be upheld!"

Its not that I reject god, I reject your notion of god.

Evidently, you rejected the rules here, too, since they say you're not supposed to be arguing in this thread.

And no its not really a choice, I attempted to be a christian when I was younger, never could buy into it so I assumed there was something wrong with me.

How does one "attempt" to be a Christian? Either you're born again or you aren't.

Anyways making someone suffer forever for a finite crime is what I consider to be immoral.

Who says it's a finite crime? Who says that God is bound to your standard of morality?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I'm an atheist, and that isn't going to change.

But let's assume (as I'm sure most of you do) that I am wrong and Christianity is correct.

The question I put to you is, will I get into Heaven? After all, I'm a pretty good person. I help people who need it, I love my friends dearly, I don't commit crimes, I'm courteous and I try to make the world a better place in whatever limited way I can.

Now, matthew 16:27 says, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." This is a direct quote from Jesus.

So, as an atheist who tries to be a good person, will I get into heaven on the basis of this quote?

As God is Heaven's only gatekeeper, all I can say is wait and see......

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Not sure what the "doctrine of forgiveness" is, but if a judge chose not to sentence a rapist because he said he was sorry, then he would be an unjust judge.



Even if the rapist repents, the judge isn't going to let him go. The judge is going to say, "Of course you should repent, but the law must still be upheld!"



Evidently, you rejected the rules here, too, since they say you're not supposed to be arguing in this thread.



How does one "attempt" to be a Christian? Either you're born again or you aren't.



Who says it's a finite crime? Who says that God is bound to your standard of morality?

So Loveless isn't just a fictional tv character......

 

[Benevolous]

Doctrine simply means 'teachings'.

I know what doctrine means, thank you. I'm asking you what the "doctrine of forgiveness".

Christianity teaches that all one has to do "to be saved" is ask for forgiveness, and regardless of actions in this world, heaven awaits.

Not sure where you got that idea, but that isn't at all what Christianity teaches. I can't think of one verse that tells us that we're saved by asking for forgiveness.

To follow your argument (which seems to me an exercise in casuistry), indeed, allowing a rapist to go, or forgiving anothers sins so as to 'inherit eteranl life,' is, as you say, unjust.

So if it's unjust for the judge to let a rapist go unpunished, why is it any less unjust for God to let sinners go unpunished?

 

[Benevolous]

So Loveless isn't just a fictional tv character......

You lost me there.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Doctrine simply means 'teachings'. Christianity teaches that all one has to do "to be saved" is ask for forgiveness, and regardless of actions in this world, heaven awaits. To follow your argument (which seems to me an exercise in casuistry), indeed, allowing a rapist to go, or forgiving anothers sins so as to 'inherit eteranl life,' is, as you say, unjust.

Not true. Jesus did not teach simple fluffy flappers as a transport to Heaven. Salvation cannot be asked for nor earned. It is human Grace as a gift from God.

Over the years many Western Christian sects have lured unsuspecting people in to the "Just ask for forgiveness" hook only to spring on them more strings attached than jelly doughnuts celebrating Michael Moore Has the Flu Day.

 

[Sir Wilshire]

Anyways making someone suffer forever for a finite crime is what I consider to be immoral.

Who says the finite crimes have infinite punishments? It's very possible that finite crimes have finite punishments in hell. It just goes on forever because sinners don't stop sinning. Now, is it that surprising that sinners keep sinning?

Doctrine simply means 'teachings'. Christianity teaches that all one has to do "to be saved" is ask for forgiveness, and regardless of actions in this world, heaven awaits. To follow your argument (which seems to me an exercise in casuistry), indeed, allowing a rapist to go, or forgiving anothers sins so as to 'inherit eteranl life,' is, as you say, unjust.

Except that someone who truly repented will change their behavior. And will be guaranteed to have changed behavior in the eternal state.

 

[Benevolous]

Who says the finite crimes have infinite punishments? It's very possible that finite crimes have finite punishments in hell. It just goes on forever because sinners don't stop sinning. Now, is it that surprising that sinners keep sinning?

That's a really interesting theory.

 

[Sir Wilshire]

That's a really interesting theory.

You may find this interesting too. It's an argument for why hell is forever. Here's the most relevant excerpt.

"It clarifies and simplifies the argument that sin is an "infinite offense" against God requiring an infinite payment. Under the honor and shame paradigm, sin is particularly an honor offense against God, in effect an insult to His honor and place by means of disregard of His authority and rules.

The paradigm demands that such insults to honor be repaid with shame. In this instance it remains that the value of the response must be equitable -- hence Jesus, in his divine identity, remains the only adequate payment for this honor offense; his blood alone is adequate to take away sin. However, because it is a matter of quality and not quantity, and is an "either-or" rather than a mathematical-value proposition, it is no longer necessary to argue that a sin is an "infinite offense" or to even deal in terms of quantity.

Indeed, the matter of quality rests on that while all of God's honor is ascribed (due Him by nature), no ascribed honor of our own can match His (being born into a good family), and we are otherwise only capable of having what they call "acquired" honor. (For more see now my revision of our defense of the atonement and penal substitution.)"
-Source

 

[Benevolous]

John 3:16 would be one verse. The "Roman Road" would be a series of verses. Jesus granting the thief on the cross eternal life. So called "deathbed conversion," etc. To deny that this is not a central part of the majority of over 33,000 Christian denominations is ludicrous.

As "ludicrous" as claiming that there are over 33,000 Christian denominations when that number has been debunked so often?

John 3:16 doesn't say anything about this fantastical "forgiveness doctrine" you mentioned. Jesus' granting the thief eternal life wasn't because he asked for forgiveness.

As far as death bed conversions, if all they've done is ask for forgiveness, then they weren't "converted".

As for punisment, fine. I can't think of one crime that deserves eternal burning.

Doesn't matter. You're not the judge.

 

[razeontherock]

I'll field her point though: "Belief isn't a choice, if you can alter your perceptions of reality at will depending on what you want reality to be your typically seen as crazy or delusional"

Clarification certainly is in order here! Faith (in the Biblical sense) is NOT belief, or make believe. We're NOT talking about "altering your perceptions of reality." The Aztecs did that via hallucinogens, and it's markedly evident they did in fact contact demons.

Biblical Faith IS a choice, but we're certainly not going to be able to delineate what that is in any nice neat 1, 2, 3 format in a thread here (LOL) Gotta learn to crawl before you can run ...

 

[razeontherock]

I'm an atheist, and that isn't going to change.

But let's assume (as I'm sure most of you do) that I am wrong and Christianity is correct.

The question I put to you is, will I get into Heaven? After all, I'm a pretty good person. I help people who need it, I love my friends dearly, I don't commit crimes, I'm courteous and I try to make the world a better place in whatever limited way I can.

Now, matthew 16:27 says, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." This is a direct quote from Jesus.

So, as an atheist who tries to be a good person, will I get into heaven on the basis of this quote?

If nobody else mentioned it, you can look up Kurt Cameron on youtube and see him in a lot of vids dealing at this level. I don't recommend that approach to Evangelism and sometimes they get Pwned, but he does get the basic facts right.

 

[razeontherock]

Not true. Jesus did not teach simple fluffy flappers as a transport to Heaven.

I used to have in my tagline, "God is not a benign marshmallow of sentimentality," written by our own Brinny.