Are you under THE law, Grace or both

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree. So is the law the gospel? Ministration of death doesn't sound like good news to me.

The Good News is life everlasting thru the faith that is of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things now have been finished, that the Writing may be fulfilled,saith "I thirst"
John 19:30 When then Jesus had received/got the vinegar, He said "it has been finished!".
And reclining the head He gives-up the spirit.

Reve 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fall toward the feet of Him as dead, and He places the right-*hand of Him on me saying "no be fearing! I am the first and the last
18 and the living-one!
And I became dead and behold! I am living into the ages to-the ages amen.
And I am having the keys of the death and of the hades."

 

[Blind As A Bat]

Grace. How can you follow a law that cannot be held at anytime?

 

[dbakerman76]

I think that it is by Grace alone we are saved. Although our acts should manifest the fact that we have received the Grace of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ddjones1230]

oh, woops...I just answered the poll question, I did not comment. I know for a fact that Jesus said He did not come to *change* the Law, but to fulfill it, so that tells me that it (the Law) stands for *something*, and is to be honored and revered....right?

anywho...so, I voted Both.

 

[ancientsoul]

both

for got to add

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matthew5:17

Whosoever commitheth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4

 

[Lysimachus]

Click to hear audio:

Law and Grace

(Especially you Frogster)

 

[Chaplain David]

Click to hear audio:

Law and Grace

(Especially you Frogster)

There is no attribution on the message my audio program played. Where is that sermon from, who's speaking? Thanks.

 

[Chaplain David]

The embedded link is from www.hearingthetruth.org
Someone named D.S. Harris' name shows on the site.
Never heard of them.

Interesting are these somewhat denigrating definitions of different types of people according to this site: http://www.hearingthetruth.org/importantterms.htm

Not a lot of love in some of those definitions.

 

[Lysimachus]

The embedded link is from www.hearingthetruth.org
Someone named D.S. Harris' name shows on the site.
Never heard of them.

Interesting are these somewhat denigrating definitions of different types of people according to this site: one doctrine johnny,cattle,showboating,htt terms

Not a lot of love in some of those definitions.

My apologies for not sourcing it. Yes, from Hearing The Truth Radio (Hearing The Truth). The radio people are Mike Warren and D.S. Farris.

And yes, I do not agree with some of their sharp thrusts and vocal slangs, but I thought their particular audio on Law and Grace was Biblically sound and stood for itself.

They can be a bit strong no doubt, which I do not condone. But I felt their arguments need to be heard.

 

[ancientsoul]

Isaiah 8:16 and 20-22

Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
And they shall pass throug it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shalll fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.
And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.

It's strange to me to ask if we must keep the law. If we have Christ in us, it isn't an option. If we choose to follow Jesus, it isn't an option. If we love the Lord, it isn't an option. Simply put, Jesus and the law go hand in hand, for in Him the law is fulfilled. One Way or another.

Isaiah 35:8

And a highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

Revelation 18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

John 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Returning to God's laws and commandments is the way out of all the confusion and what's coming. He is the same today, yesterday, and always.

 

[sheina]

They are complimentary systems that work together. Grace does not oppose the Law, nor the Law grace, but each has it's purpose.

The Law is how we know what sin is. It shows us our need for salvation, and what is required to cancel our debt of sin.

Grace is God, doing what is required for the cancellation of our debt of sin.

Faith is what is required to accept the salvation, the cancelling of this debt, and for accepting the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit then moulds us, and moves us to obey the Law, the way God intended it to be kept.



I think you could put it that way, yes...



Yes.

James 2:12

Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,



It's the definition of what a believer should be like, and what the Spirit would move any believer to follow.


Yes, and a source of blessing as well.

Thank you for your response. Are you aware that every one of your responses agrees with the SDA doctrine on law and grace?

 

[Lysimachus]

Thank you for your response. Are you aware that every one of your responses agrees with the SDA doctrine on law and grace?

I have a question for you. If the SDA's happen to get it right on the doctrine of law and grace, would this be reason to reject it, simply because you disagree with SDAs on other things?

Sheina, let us take truth for what it is, regardless of what denomination may uphold it.

When it comes to God's true church, which comprises all those faithful commandment keeping people of God, all denominational barriers will come crashing down.

It is all about doing what is right, and living according to God's divine will. Regardless of what denominational background someone has.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

<snip>
Returning to God's laws and commandments is the way out of all the confusion and what's coming.
He is the same today, yesterday, and always.

Young) Hebrews 1:12 and as a mantle Thou shall roll them together, and they shall be changed,
and Thou art the same, and Thy years shall not fail.'
[Psalm 102:25-27/Reve 6:14]

Young) Revelation 6:14 and heaven departed as a scroll rolled up, and every mountain and island--out of their places they were moved;

 

[sheina]

I have a question for you. If the SDA's happen to get it right on the doctrine of law and grace, would this be reason to reject it, simply because you disagree with SDAs on other things?

How can you be so sure the SDAs got it right on the doctrine of law and grace? By what standard are you basing your statement?

Sheina, let us take truth for what it is, regardless of what denomination may uphold it.

The Truth is not found within any denomination...NO denomination can claim to have a hold on the Truth.

Jesus is the Truth: John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Word of God is the Truth: John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

When it comes to God's true church, which comprises all those faithful commandment keeping people of God, all denominational barriers will come crashing down.

Are you saying that God's true church is comprised of only those "law keeping" people, and nobody else?

The true church is a divinely given and designed institution, a body properly organized according to the New Testament pattern, composed of "faithful brethren in Christ" (born again Jews and Gentiles) (Colossians 1:2)...NOT Christendom or some ecumenical body.

It is all about doing what is right, and living according to God's divine will. Regardless of what denominational background someone has.

It is all about loving God and neighbor, following Jesus Christ and walking in the Spirit. All that denominations do is to "identify" people with the doctrines and beliefs of a particular denomination. For me, the Bible is the sole and final authority for Christian living. That's the reason why I "identify" myself as an Independent Fundamental Baptist.

 

[Frogster]

Click to hear audio:

Law and Grace

(Especially you Frogster)

Thanks for thinking of me.

No time for videos though.

Why did Paul juxtapose the blessing of Abe, to the curse of law? The gospel is not of law, is it?


9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.


10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

 

[Frogster]

My apologies for not sourcing it. Yes, from Hearing The Truth Radio (Hearing The Truth). The radio people are Mike Warren and D.S. Farris.

And yes, I do not agree with some of their sharp thrusts and vocal slangs, but I thought their particular audio on Law and Grace was Biblically sound and stood for itself.

They can be a bit strong no doubt, which I do not condone. But I felt their arguments need to be heard.

Why do you figure the jews at antioch were living as gentiles?

They ate gentile food, no sabby..etc.

please advise.

 

[Frogster]

I have a question for you. If the SDA's happen to get it right on the doctrine of law and grace, would this be reason to reject it, simply because you disagree with SDAs on other things?

Sheina, let us take truth for what it is, regardless of what denomination may uphold it.

When it comes to God's true church, which comprises all those faithful commandment keeping people of God, all denominational barriers will come crashing down.

It is all about doing what is right, and living according to God's divine will. Regardless of what denominational background someone has.

ummmm hate to break it to ya, but the opposite happened in Antioch, when Peter reverted to law, a church split almost happened. They were not in line with the truth of the gospel. Sorry my brother, tis scripture.

11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

The law was the enmity, that had to go..

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[Frogster]

I have a question for you. If the SDA's happen to get it right on the doctrine of law and grace, would this be reason to reject it, simply because you disagree with SDAs on other things?

Sheina, let us take truth for what it is, regardless of what denomination may uphold it.

When it comes to God's true church, which comprises all those faithful commandment keeping people of God, all denominational barriers will come crashing down.

It is all about doing what is right, and living according to God's divine will. Regardless of what denominational background someone has.

The law caused division...

Got law, got division...



Acts 10:28 KJV And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

common
New Testament Greek Definition:
2839 koinos {koy-nos'}
probably from 4862; TDNT - 3:789,447; adj
AV - common 7, unclean 3, defiled 1, unholy 1; 12
1) common
2) common i.e. ordinary, belonging to generality
2a) by the Jews, unhallowed, profane, Levitically unclean


unclean
New Testament Greek Definition:
169 akathartos {ak-ath'-ar-tos}
from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 2508
(meaning cleansed); TDNT - 3:427,381; adj
AV - unclean 28, foul 2; 30
1) not cleansed, unclean
1a) in a ceremonial sense: that which must be abstained from
according to the levitical law 1b) in a moral sense: unclean in thought and life

 

[visionary]

The law caused division...

Got law, got division...



Acts 10:28 KJV And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

common
New Testament Greek Definition:
2839 koinos {koy-nos'}
probably from 4862; TDNT - 3:789,447; adj
AV - common 7, unclean 3, defiled 1, unholy 1; 12
1) common
2) common i.e. ordinary, belonging to generality
2a) by the Jews, unhallowed, profane, Levitically unclean


unclean
New Testament Greek Definition:
169 akathartos {ak-ath'-ar-tos}
from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 2508
(meaning cleansed); TDNT - 3:427,381; adj
AV - unclean 28, foul 2; 30
1) not cleansed, unclean
1a) in a ceremonial sense: that which must be abstained from
according to the levitical law 1b) in a moral sense: unclean in thought and life

And that particular "law" is a oral traditional law...

 

[Lysimachus]

How can you be so sure the SDAs got it right on the doctrine of law and grace? By what standard are you basing your statement?

The Truth is not found within any denomination...NO denomination can claim to have a hold on the Truth.

Jesus is the Truth: John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Word of God is the Truth: John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


Are you saying that God's true church is comprised of only those "law keeping" people, and nobody else?

The true church is a divinely given and designed institution, a body properly organized according to the New Testament pattern, composed of "faithful brethren in Christ" (born again Jews and Gentiles) (Colossians 1:2)...NOT Christendom or some ecumenical body.

It is all about loving God and neighbor, following Jesus Christ and walking in the Spirit. All that denominations do is to "identify" people with the doctrines and beliefs of a particular denomination. For me, the Bible is the sole and final authority for Christian living. That's the reason why I "identify" myself as an Independent Fundamental Baptist.

Shaina, you appear to not discern what I was getting at. How clear do I have to get before you guys finally get what I'm really trying to say?

I NEVER said that any truth is found within any denomination!!! Did you forget that you originally gave warning "are you aware that what you are teaching lines up with the SDA doctrine of law and grace?"....as if you were saying that this is why it should be disqualified.

My point is...if a denomination happens to line up with scripture, then so be it. Accept the doctrine whether you like the denomination or not. But you appeared to be having issues with what NaLavena was saying, simply because it sounded like "SDA".

My point: If you were really concerned about finding truth, you wouldn't be bringing up the denomination.

Truth is truth, regardless of what denomination adheres to it.

Please don't make me repeat. Try to get my point.

I also never said that God's people are "law" keeping people. But the Bible does say that God's people are obedient.

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14)

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13)