Are non-RC Christians considered excommunicated by the RCC?

[Jig]

I was reading a list of what 'automatically excommunicates' a person or group from the Catholic Church.

1. Apostasy,
2. Heresy,
3. Schism,
4. Desecration of the Eucharist,
5. Physical force against the Pope,
6. Attempted sacramental absolution of a partner in adultery,
7. Ordination of a bishop without a Papal mandate (e.g. all bishops in the government-run Chinese Patriotic Church),
8. For non-electors present in the conclave, revelation of the details of the conclave,
9. Simoniacal provision of the Papal office,
10. Violation of the sacramental seal of confession by a priest or bishop, and
11. Procurement of a completed abortion.

Number three says schism. This would include Eastern Orthodox Christians as well as Baptist, Lutherans, and so on. (Everyone that doesn't practice the exact same thing the RCC believes.)

Number two says heresy, which to the RCC would include stating the Euharist as not actual flesh. This would make up a large number of Christians.

And the list goes on, including if you even attempt to hurt the Pope.

So my question is...are non-Catholics really considered excommunicated from the Catholic Church? And since the RCC believes thay are the one true and only Church, does this mean they believe people outside of it are not a part of Christ's true Church regardless if they believe in Jesus? (since they are excommunticated from it.)

I'm not looking for debate, just an answer.

 

[FriarTuck]

You should take this up in OBOB if you don't want a debate. I can already see the first seventy pages of this thread forming in my head.

Peace and Love

 

[Gwenyfur]

lol...yup I hate to do it, but I do agree...OBOB is the spot

 

[Dragons87]

Ha...I'm going to bring the debate in....

How can they excommunicate me if I wasn't "communicating" in the first place?

Do I care if the Roman Church excommunicates me? Not really. God's acceptance isn't bound by the Roman Church's excommunications. I'd care more if China decides to rip my nationality off me.

 

[Metanoia02]

I was reading a list of what 'automatically excommunicates' a person or group from the Catholic Church.

1. Apostasy,
2. Heresy,
3. Schism,
4. Desecration of the Eucharist,
5. Physical force against the Pope,
6. Attempted sacramental absolution of a partner in adultery,
7. Ordination of a bishop without a Papal mandate (e.g. all bishops in the government-run Chinese Patriotic Church),
8. For non-electors present in the conclave, revelation of the details of the conclave,
9. Simoniacal provision of the Papal office,
10. Violation of the sacramental seal of confession by a priest or bishop, and
11. Procurement of a completed abortion.

Number three says schism. This would include Eastern Orthodox Christians as well as Baptist, Lutherans, and so on. (Everyone that doesn't practice the exact same thing the RCC believes.)

Number two says heresy, which to the RCC would include stating the Euharist as not actual flesh. This would make up a large number of Christians.

And the list goes on, including if you even attempt to hurt the Pope.

So my question is...are non-Catholics really considered excommunicated from the Catholic Church? And since the RCC believes thay are the one true and only Church, does this mean they believe people outside of it are not a part of Christ's true Church regardless if they believe in Jesus? (since they are excommunticated from it.)

I'm not looking for debate, just an answer.

You have to be Catholic in order to be excommunicated.

 

[Caliban]

You have to be Catholic in order to be excommunicated.

Actually you are incorrect:


Since excommunication is the forfeiture of the spiritual privileges of ecclesiastical society, all those, but those only, can be excommunicated who, by any right whatsoever, belong to this society. Consequently excommunication can be inflicted only on baptized and living persons. Although the Church recites against the devil exorcisms in which the word anathema occurs, he cannot be excommunicated, for he in no way belongs to the Church. Among living persons, those who have not been baptized have never been members of the Christian society and therefore cannot be deprived of spiritual benefits to which they have never had a right; in this way, infidels, pagans, Mohammedans, and Jews, though outside of the Church, are not excommunicated. As the baptized cease, at death, to belong to the Church Militant, the dead cannot be excommunicated. Of course, strictly speaking, after the demise of a Christian person, it may be officially declared that such person incurred excommunication during his lifetime. Quite in the same sense he may be absolved after his death; indeed, the Roman Ritual contains the rite for absolving an excommunicated person already dead (***. III, cap. iv: Ritus absolvendi excommunicatum jam mortuum). However, these sentences or absolutions concern only the effects of excommunication, notably ecclesiastical burial. With the foregoing exceptions, all who have been baptized are liable to excommunication, even those who have never belonged to the true Church, since by their baptism they are really her subjects, though of course rebellious ones. Moreover, the Church excommunicates not only those who abandon the true faith to embrace schism or heresy, but likewise the members of heretical and schismatic communities who have been born therein. As to the latter, however, it is not question of personal excommunication; the censure overtakes them in their corporate capacity, as members of a community in revolt against the true Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[eoe]

Number three says schism. This would include Eastern Orthodox Christians as well as Baptist, Lutherans, and so on.

The RC will definately disagree with me but from the Eastern View the Roman church is the one in Schism.

Did 4 Apostolic Sees conspire against and bail on Rome or did Rome attempt to usurp power and bail on the other 4?

In the Eastern view it was Rome that left the Church.

In the Western (Rome) view it was the East that left.

Anyhoo... The answer is this:

You have not been excommunicated. You have excommunicated yourself. You have not put yourself into a position to be in communion. It s not that the RCC has taken an action against you - you have declined to unite yourself with it, thus, you are not in communion.

Same thing with any of the closed communion churches I imagine.

 

[kimber1]

from what i've been taught, one would have to 100% know AND believe ALL that the Church teaches and then knowingly reject it. and how do any of us know whether someone 100% understood anything? so actually only God knows the ex RC's heart so only he could say

 

[Tonks]

You have not been excommunicated. You have excommunicated yourself. You have not put yourself into a position to be in communion. It s not that the RCC has taken an action against you - you have declined to unite yourself with it, thus, you are not in communion.

Same thing with any of the closed communion churches I imagine.

This, plus Metonia's response should pretty much answer the question.

 

[albertmc]

Probably, but then you must understand that excommunication is not the same as not being a Christian - that is apostasy. All apostates are excommunicated but not all those excommunicated are apostate. It means you are "out of communion" - that is, you may not receive communion in the Catholic Church. However, you are still considered a Christian if you hold to the Nicene Creed and all baptisms done in the name of the Triune God are considered valid.

Thus, I am excommunicated, but I see no problem with this. Communion is a sign of unity and if we don't hold the same doctrines then we do not have that unity.

 

[GraceInHim]

You have to be Catholic in order to be excommunicated.

correct.. since I never left (persay, said I am outta here) have not returned to it.. I am still Catholic by the Church.. I can walk in today and be received as a member.. I actually help out with charity for one and never am I frowned upon..

 

[Tonks]

correct.. since I never left (persay, said I am outta here) have not returned to it.. I am still Catholic by the Church.. I can walk in today and be received as a member.. I actually help out with charity for one and never am I frowned upon..

I thought you were in fellowship somewhere else now, though?

 

[Dragons87]

What does excommunication mean anyway?

 

[Metanoia02]

What does excommunication mean anyway?

99.9% of the excommunications are not fromal actions of the Church. They are done voluntarily by the individual. The most common way is through divorce. For example, by remarrying while your first spouse is still alive and in the eyes of the Church you are still married, you have excommunicated yourself.

 

[Dragons87]

99.9% of the excommunications are not fromal actions of the Church. They are done voluntarily by the individual. The most common way is through divorce. For example, by remarrying while your first spouse is still alive and in the eyes of the Church you are still married, you have excommunicated yourself.

Okay...but what does it mean? Does it mean you lose your salvation? That Catholics aren't allowed to speak to you ever again or they'll fall too?

 

[QuantaCura]

When you were Baptised, you became Catholic--then, once you committed the various sins carrying the penalty of excommunication (inluding the sins against faith like heresy, and by definition Protestants are at least material heretics but they may or may not be formal heretics), you were excommunicated. That's why you can't receive Communion in a Catholic Mass--you are not in Communion with the Catholic Church.

Dear mods, I know it is against the rules to call people heretics and whatnot, but for the purpose of this discussion the concept of heresy is integral. I hope no one is offended. Delete if it is against the rules.

 

[Metanoia02]

Okay...but what does it mean? Does it mean you lose your salvation? That Catholics aren't allowed to speak to you ever again or they'll fall too?

It does not mean you lose your salvation. It means by your actions you have separated from the Church. You no longer have access to the Sacraments. St Paul pointed this out in one of his letters. If they are unwilling to repent they are to be put out and as he says turned over to the evil one.

 

[Dragons87]

So non-Catholics, even if they have been baptised into the Church of Christ, aren't allowed to partake in a Catholic Communion?

 

[QuantaCura]

So non-Catholics, even if they have been baptised into the Church of Christ, aren't allowed to partake in a Catholic Communion?

No. Communion is a sign of unity for one, and approaching the Blessed Sacrament means you are in Communion with everyone else present and that you proclaim the same faith,etc.--and Protestants do not do this (same reason why we do not recieve at your services). Likewise, it is for your own good. Most Protestants do not discern the Body and Blood of the Lord and therefore would be eating condemnation on themselves, according to St. Paul.

 

[GraceInHim]

I thought you were in fellowship somewhere else now, though?

no, still at home I worship.. been looking into one though