Are Most Catholics Hell-bound?

[ZaidaBoBaida]

I think I already said I missed Mass for two weeks because of travel and sickness. I knew I was missing it, but I didn't know how much I was missing it until I started choking up during the Gloria.

 

[benedictaoo]

Okay...?

Look, as much as this may come as a shock to you, your salvation, it's between you and God. Not me, you and God. You do not need to provide me with an explanation. I can't tell you what's excusable and what isn't. (and no one else here can either...)

Just as we can not tell someone they are going to hell because we don't know, we can not say if they are going to be saved from hell either... cuz we do not know.

 

[WarriorAngel]

You always seem to forget we are to counsel - except when you do the counseling.

The laws of God are perfect- He knows us 'better' than we know ourselves. When ppl miss Mass - they have less graces to avoid the temptations - and it severs our relationship with God by even beginning that route.
We find His incredible sacrifice so common - we want to skip it. There's more fun elsewhere.

Like it or not - missing Mass is a mortal sin.
It shows God we have more interesting things to do - we snub Him - and as such we begin to let evil take hold because we refuse the graces He offers us.

These things have a point to them. They are not some legalistic mumbo jumbo because God is some stern Father figure.
He knows we go downhill when we dont continue to want to be near Him... and the lack of wanting to be near Him says a lot.


So - altho salvation is personal - we are One BODY - because we are told to assist one another in the precepts of God... to keep each other strong. To keep one another seeking Communion with God..

As it seems - this Law is subjective to opinions.
Nice!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim, STOP! What is your constant problem with making false distinctions? Why do you do this??

Jesus is the Eucharist. It is HIM! Body, blood, soul, and divinity and that is what makes the world turn. His presence is what saves because the Mass is Calvary out poured for mankind.

Why do you constantly down play it?

I'm not down playing it but trying to keep confusion for non Catholics in the way your present your statements.

When you state that our Salvation is the Eucharist, a non-Catholic is not going to understand the Eucharist is Jesus Body and Blood.

I would hope that you understand that not everyone that comes into this forum is Catholic who understands what the Holy Eucharist means.


Jim

 

[mark46]

I hope that God has the Mercy to isolate you (in Heaven) from the millions and billions of the friends of Jesus that you presume will be in hell. They will walk quietly as we pass your mansion.

Seriously! Equating apostasy with the missing of a Sunday mass or two out of laziness is just plain silly (at best).

If it's out of rebellion, yeah. Because that is apostasy. A rejection. A flat, outright rejection and knowing what you are rejecting with full knowledge and consent. Yeah, your butts going to hell because that is what hell is. A place for those who want nothing to do with God. Rejecting Mass when you know good and well what it is, is rejecting God. If you stay like this, hard of heart, until death, and you meet the Lord and still want nothing to do with Him, yeah YOU are happy to go to hell. God is not sending you, you send yourself, you go willingly. Cuz that is were you want to be.

These people are the reprobates of the world. The dammed. And it's of their own free will choice. Its not those who miss out of ignorance or out of mental illness, anxiety, ect. It's not those who are suffering from a deep hurt or those who are just broken hearted. Its those who are reprobates, the hard of heart- the ones God has handed over to their hardness.

 

[Ave Maria]

Hi, everyone,

I am a cradle Catholic, and I love the Catholic faith still. However, I am highly concerned with a very important area of theology, and I find any insight I've gained from research so far quite disconcerting. Okay, so here it goes:

One day, a priest told my congregation, "Missing Mass is a mortal sin." I began thinking how my fellow parishioners--and many other individuals who live in my heavily Catholic area--have missed Mass. Many simply miss occasionally for baseball games or shopping, yet I know they nonetheless retain a deep trust in Christ. Indeed, I am guilty of skipping Mass sometimes, too. Eaten up with fear, I went to Confession.

So, apparently, I am safe, having gone to Confession--but what about the many, MANY people within the Catholic faith who have shrugged off their responsibility to attend Mass? Is it true that if one goes to Mass every week in his life, only to shirk going to Sunday Mass in favor of attending a baseball game, and then dies the following Monday, he will go to hell according to Catholic doctrine? This seems astoundingly legalistic to me, and I just can't believe the Church could truly teach this, much less justify it.

This question tends to make Catholics mad. (Trust me, I've already asked some local priests, who either avoid the question or answer in annoyance or anger). With that in mind, I ask you to please not treat me like a heathen or an internet troll, but remember that I am simply one of your Catholic sisters (albeit, a confused one!) whose Catholic faith is a bit troubled.

Thank you,

MissTea

That is what would happen if that person met all three requirements for the sin to be mortal and did not go to Confession or make an Act of Perfect Contrition before they died. The three requirements for a sin to be mortal as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church are:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131


1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.


1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.


1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 8

 

[holyorders]

This is a big deal for me. I fall in and out of the Church all the time. Having doubts and problems I feel it right to miss Mass. Why would I offend the Lord by pretending to have faith.

But to have the sting of a Mortal Sin layered on me adds to those problems. To me the Sunday Obligation is becoming a means to push and keep me away from the Church. I just don't seem to understand much anymore I guess.

 

[Rhamiel]

staying away from church because you have doubts is like saying
"I am starting to feel sick, so I am going to stay outside in the cold"
or
"I am feeling frail, I am going to not eat for a while"
praising God with other believers will help you through your times of doubt

 

[benedictaoo]

Who are you talking to?

You always seem to forget we are to counsel - except when you do the counseling.

The laws of God are perfect- He knows us 'better' than we know ourselves. When ppl miss Mass - they have less graces to avoid the temptations - and it severs our relationship with God by even beginning that route.
We find His incredible sacrifice so common - we want to skip it. There's more fun elsewhere.

Like it or not - missing Mass is a mortal sin.
It shows God we have more interesting things to do - we snub Him - and as such we begin to let evil take hold because we refuse the graces He offers us.

These things have a point to them. They are not some legalistic mumbo jumbo because God is some stern Father figure.
He knows we go downhill when we dont continue to want to be near Him... and the lack of wanting to be near Him says a lot.


So - altho salvation is personal - we are One BODY - because we are told to assist one another in the precepts of God... to keep each other strong. To keep one another seeking Communion with God..

As it seems - this Law is subjective to opinions.
Nice!

 

[benedictaoo]

This is a big deal for me. I fall in and out of the Church all the time. Having doubts and problems I feel it right to miss Mass. Why would I offend the Lord by pretending to have faith.

But to have the sting of a Mortal Sin layered on me adds to those problems. To me the Sunday Obligation is becoming a means to push and keep me away from the Church. I just don't seem to understand much anymore I guess.

because faith is not a feeling but a choice. We have to still have acts of faith even if we don't feel like we have faith. Going to Mass when you just do not feel it, actually means you have a ton more faith then the one who has all these warm feelings for it.

Just go... you going is an act of faith. Mother Theresa doubted but she still prayed and did her thing. Doubting is a normal thing everyone will go through.

 

[benedictaoo]

I hope that God has the Mercy to isolate you (in Heaven) from the millions and billions of the friends of Jesus that you presume will be in hell. They will walk quietly as we pass your mansion.

Seriously! Equating apostasy with the missing of a Sunday mass or two out of laziness is just plain silly (at best).

You need to check yourself and get on page. Rejection, rebellion, what do you think that is?? Of course it's apostasy.

It's not missing cuz you are sick or out of ignorance. It's not going, knowing FULL WELL what Mass is and knowing FULL WELL that missing is a sin and knowing FULL WELL why it's a sin to miss.

Just about everyone in this thread doesn't have a clue as to why it's a sin to miss. Which will make you less culpable. For those who do know fully- and miss it anyway- they will choose hell, God does not send you there, you go willingly, you'll go because you want nothing to do with God, which is what people who KNOW, which is why they miss.

 

[benedictaoo]

I'm not down playing it but trying to keep confusion for non Catholics in the way your present your statements.

When you state that our Salvation is the Eucharist, a non-Catholic is not going to understand the Eucharist is Jesus Body and Blood.

I would hope that you understand that not everyone that comes into this forum is Catholic who understands what the Holy Eucharist means.


Jim

So freakin' what? This is a Catholic asking the question in a Catholic forum, where Catholics are making some pretty outrageous remarks on how you don't need Mass which is ridiculous thing for a CATHOLIC to say. Of course you need to go to Mass if you are a Catholic. To miss is a sin. Is it mortal- depends on the level of knowledge and why they are missing.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I hope that God has the Mercy to isolate you (in Heaven) from the millions and billions of the friends of Jesus that you presume will be in hell. They will walk quietly as we pass your mansion.

Seriously! Equating apostasy with the missing of a Sunday mass or two out of laziness is just plain silly (at best).

Its taking His sacrifice and making it unimportant - and His Lord's day as if like some other day - that causes mortal sin.

Laziness - sloth itself is one of the deadly sins.
So can anything good come from it?

It is and has always been a mortal sin. We sever our relationship with God and with good cause.
Would you like it if you expected those who love you to NOT attend the greatest feast ever [that which was the cause of salvation] to avoid coming and still be good friends?
He is not just anyone - and His salvific sacrifice is not some ordinary occasion either.

What about the parable of those invited to the feast and didnt show - then He sent out invites to others to come who came but wore nothing suitable [ie had gross sins] and they too were tossed out.

[Which was the parable of the Jews who were invited and then the Gentiles who did come but didnt have any regard for their sins and partook of the feast with disregard]...that is to mean - in mortal sin.



Yah, He is very much - that concerned.

 

[WarriorAngel]

This is a big deal for me. I fall in and out of the Church all the time. Having doubts and problems I feel it right to miss Mass. Why would I offend the Lord by pretending to have faith.

But to have the sting of a Mortal Sin layered on me adds to those problems. To me the Sunday Obligation is becoming a means to push and keep me away from the Church. I just don't seem to understand much anymore I guess.

So you seem to be essentially saying you have the ability by yourself to receive grace?

Its a gift from God - and it comes thru continuing on in doing His will even if when times are 'dry'. We all go up and down - but what keeps us strong in spite of the downs is going to Mass.

And this is the wisdom of attending Mass in the 1st place.
The infusion of graces come from the font of the sacraments - and to miss it leads to danger of the soul - which is why whether we want to or not - we drag out bodies there and give attention to the readings - because God speaks to us thru the Mass and fills us up and refreshes us when we give the smallest of effort.

Even the faith as small as a mustard seed brings big results.
Ok, so you arent feeling it ATM - give it a while and you know it comes back. Not everyday do we feel on top of things - trials come and go but you know it does return. Cutting yourself off from the sacraments that infuse grace isnt the answer - it is actually a disaster and it takes that much longer to have grace return to us.
Usually something sparks or eats at us to return.
God calling us back - beckoning us to receive the sacraments to infuse grace into us.

If you are human - you wont feel strong in faith 100% of the time. Accept that and keep going because God knows us better than we know ourselves and His laws were set up 'for' us in spite of ourselves.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

So freakin' what? This is a Catholic asking the question in a Catholic forum, where Catholics are making some pretty outrageous remarks on how you don't need Mass which is ridiculous thing for a CATHOLIC to say. Of course you need to go to Mass if you are a Catholic. To miss is a sin. Is it mortal- depends on the level of knowledge and why they are missing.

So freakin what ?

We're to teach the "Good News, of Jesus Christ," not provide discouragement and fear.

Yes, a Catholic asked the question, but it's a public forum with non-Catholics and even Catholics who are ignorant about the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, come seeking answers.


Lets not drive them to the proverbial door.


Jim

 

[WarriorAngel]

Where did the idea we arent to teach fear come from?

The word used in the Bible for fear is the very same of that of fear of an enemy [absolute dread in fact] - not the 'awe' so modernly translated these days.

Yes, we do teach to fear - as the OT instructed we ought to fear the Lord as well as the NT.
Was Jesus a fear monger because He taught ppl do go to hell?
Did He teach fear speaking about the fires of hell and the worm never dies?
Or that it was set up for demons and we can go there too?

Jesus wanted ppl to fear as well as to love Him.


As a side note - not that it matters - but according to clergy - who saw other clergy in hell or were judged to hell [but found reprieve] - it was not teaching fear and hell enough which leads souls to HELL - which caused clergy to go to hell.

Take or leave it - but only satan would want ppl to ignore the real serious issue of going to hell. After all - its only him who benefits. Receiving lukewarm ppl as well as clergy [his top bonus] because no one gives sermons on the reality of hell...and how ppl go there.

Stop telling ppl its all warm and fuzzy - yes God is merciful - why do we ignore He is justice too.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Faith based on the human emotion of fear is not faith.

It's the most immature level of belief a person can have.

This is not the meaning of "Fear of the Lord," used in scripture, which is actually having a sense of awe and reverence."


The message of the Gospel is that we have salvation in Jesus Christ, not that we must believe out of fear of going to hell.

Jesus is the Good News and it is the Good News we preach, not despair, anguish and fright.

Jim

 

[benedictaoo]

So freakin what ?

We're to teach the "Good News, of Jesus Christ," not provide discouragement and fear.

Yes, a Catholic asked the question, but it's a public forum with non-Catholics and even Catholics who are ignorant about the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, come seeking answers.


Lets not drive them to the proverbial door.


Jim

I'm not denying the Real Presence for the sake of a Prots sensibilities being offended. You can do it, water down and deny our Lord but I won't. You can't be ashamed of the fullness of our faith Jim but not me. You got to let your light shine and not hide it under a bush.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm not denying the Real Presence for the sake of a Prots sensibilities being offended. You can do it, water down and deny our Lord but I won't. You can't be ashamed of the fullness of our faith Jim but not me. You got to let your light shine and not hide it under a bush.

I'm not ashamed of my faith, but desire to present it in correct terms which non-Catholics can understand.

Humility is the require virtue here.


Jim

 

[benedictaoo]

denying Jesus's Real Presence in the Eucharist is not correctly presenting it.