Are gentiles required to practice circumcision?

[BelieveTheWord]

One law shall be to him who is born at home, and to the stranger who lives as a foreigner among you. Exodus 12:49

You shall have one kind of law, for the foreigner as well as the native-born: for I am Yahweh your God. Leviticus 24:22

One law and one ordinance shall be for you, and for the stranger who lives as a foreigner with you. Numbers 15:16

Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 5:19

Regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you; as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. II Peter 2:15-16

Be learned, stable, and obedient.

 

[Dave-W]

One law shall be to him who is born at home, and to the stranger who lives as a foreigner among you. Exodus 12:49

You shall have one kind of law, for the foreigner as well as the native-born: for I am Yahweh your God. Leviticus 24:22

One law and one ordinance shall be for you, and for the stranger who lives as a foreigner with you. Numbers 15:16

Not applicable to non-Jewish believers who have no connection to the Jewish community. "...lives among you."

 

[visionary]

Not applicable to non-Jewish believers who have no connection to the Jewish community. "...lives among you."

Then we get into God's law, God's community ... vs.. Jewish law, Jewish community.

 

[Dave-W]

Then we get into God's law

God's Law:

Acts 15.22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas—Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, 23 and they sent this letter by them,


“The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.

24 “Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 “Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”

 

[Hoshiyya]

Laws of Bney Noach do not require circumcision.
If you however want to convert halakically, you must in theory be circumcised.
Chances are in many modern settings you would be asked but not checked though, so they'd just have to trust your word.

 

[Dave-W]

Laws of Bney Noach do not require circumcision.
If you however want to convert halakically, you must in theory be circumcised.
Chances are in many modern settings you would be asked but not checked though, so they'd just have to trust your word.

If you undergo a formal conversion, and you were medically circ'd, they just draw a drop of blood and that is it.

 

[Hoshiyya]

If you undergo a formal conversion, and you were medically circ'd, they just draw a drop of blood and that is it.

Correct.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Laws of Bney Noach do not require circumcision.
If you however want to convert halakically, you must in theory be circumcised.
Chances are in many modern settings you would be asked but not checked though, so they'd just have to trust your word.

In an Orthodox Jewish conversion, they don’t just “trust your word” about circumcision.

 

[Hoshiyya]

You have been to every Jewish community in the world, and verified this ?
Some are more strict, some less. It's not homogenous.

In any case, what's the problem ?
Circumcision is a good thing, many people do it without having to be told by God.
If you don't want to do it, don't do it.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

You have been to every Jewish community in the world, and verified this ?
Some are more strict, some less. It's not homogenous.

In any case, what's the problem ?
Circumcision is a good thing, many people do it without having to be told by God.
If you don't want to do it, don't do it.

Have you?

If you are converting TO Orthodox Judaism, it is a safe bet that the person is NOT Jewish and the former follower of another religion. Some people try to convert to Orthodox Judaism for unethical reasons. If the Rabbis discover there are other motives involved, the conversion process ends. There are no “less” strict conversion standards in Orthodox Judaism. Perhaps in Conservative or Reform congregations there are less strict conversions. That is why the Orthodox do not recognize the conversion performed by Conservative or Reform Rabbis. I have been on the Bet Din for several Orthodox conversions. They last at least three years, and yes, we check, with witnesses.

And I agree, If you don't want to do it, don't do it.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I think it is safe to say neither of us have been to every Jewish community in the world, and I think it is safe to say not all Jewish communities are identical. Can't believe that has to be spelled out.

" There are no “less” strict conversion standards in Orthodox Judaism. "

I am talking about reality, and in reality, not all standards are equally enforced. Some laws exist only in theory, like the law of Yevamot. Hence they don't actually affect us. Reality is the thing I deal with, not theory. And like you said, there's conservative and reform and other forms of Yahadut as well.

 

[annier]

All the children who were born in the wilderness were circumcised by Joshua as commanded by G-d before they kept the Passover in the promised land. I would think this included the strangers who were among them or their children.

True. The promises made to them in covenant with their Father Abraham was put into effect. Passover and the feast of unleavened bread are for a memorial of the fulfillment of the covenant promises made 430 years earlier being fulfilled.

So it seems to me that it is a requirement to enter into G-ds sanctuary or promised land, heaven.

Gods sanctuary and Levitical priesthood was by a latter covenant 430 years after the covenant of circumcision. However the first covenant is not disannulled of course by the covenant which came later.

But the Levitical temple, was for a worldly sanctuary as Temporal. So too the carnal commands of Genealogy being disannulled, so too the carnal command in Christ Jesus.

As spoken here
Ge 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Israel (Jew's) keeping the covenant of circumcision will always remain a nation before God (back again today because of keeping the circumcision). Their faith may be weak apart from the Gospel of Christ, but the promise of the covenant of circumcision remains as long as this earth and this world remain. They may stumble, but not fall.
IMO

 

[BelieveTheWord]

Not applicable to non-Jewish believers who have no connection to the Jewish community. "...lives among you."

Jews = 1/12

How can you claim to follow the Messiah and not be connected to Israel? Got a Buddist messiah?

 

[cyberlizard]

Does Torah require circumcision on the 8th day for gentiles?

No.

 

[mercy1061]

No.

Abram was a gentile?

 

[visionary]

Not applicable to non-Jewish believers who have no connection to the Jewish community. "...lives among you."

If you believe that it is living within the [King of the Jews] Yeshua' believing community, God's kingdom.. it does apply.

 

[yonah_mishael]

IN order for anyone to participate in the Passover [Yeshua's offering] circumcision is required.

You cannot seriously think that a person needs to be circumcised in order to be a Christian.

Just as the passover lamb was spiritualized to mean Jesus' blood being spiritually applied, so circumcision was spiritualized to refer to the circumcision of the heart.

If you meant that anyone who was not circumcised in heart, then he cannot participate in the Passover of Jesus, then you might have something. What you've just written, though, is against everything in the New Testament.

 

[aniello]

You cannot seriously think that a person needs to be circumcised in order to be a Christian.

Just as the passover lamb was spiritualized to mean Jesus' blood being spiritually applied, so circumcision was spiritualized to refer to the circumcision of the heart.

If you meant that anyone who was not circumcised in heart, then he cannot participate in the Passover of Jesus, then you might have something. What you've just written, though, is against everything in the New Testament.

I strongly agree, and I know you have a solid foundation for your comment on this issue.

It would be refreshing if this forum ever got around to discussing the "weightier matters of the 'law'", rather than trifling rabbit trails to nowhere.

 

[mercy1061]

You cannot seriously think that a person needs to be circumcised in order to be a Christian.

Do you know where the term "christian" came from? Yeshua's disciples were called "christian" by their enemies. All of the apostles whom followed Yeshua were circumcised. After all, we agree a gentile can not sojourn with a jew unless he is circumcised.

Just as the passover lamb was spiritualized to mean Jesus' blood being spiritually applied, so circumcision was spiritualized to refer to the circumcision of the heart.

The passover lamb was never spiritualized, some of us still eat bread/lambs and drink wine like Abraham with High Priest Melchizedek. I eat real lamb all of the time, it does not have to be a special occasion.

If you meant that anyone who was not circumcised in heart, then he cannot participate in the Passover of Jesus, then you might have something. What you've just written, though, is against everything in the New Testament.

Torah requires both, circumcision in the flesh and heart. Circumcision in heart was spoken about in the old testament.

 

[mercy1061]

I strongly agree, and I know you have a solid foundation for your comment on this issue.

It would be refreshing if this forum ever got around to discussing the "weightier matters of the 'law'", rather than trifling rabbit trails to nowhere.

He has no Torah proof to support his position. We all agree that Abram was a gentile when he circumcised himself as well as all of the male servants in his household. Yeshua and all of his disciples were circumcised, they were called "christian" by their enemies, Pharisee Saul circumcised Timothy. I honor Torah kingdom law.