Archbishop compares Bush to Ugandan dictator

[Ave Maria]

The Archbishop of York has compared George W Bush to the Ugandan dictator Idi Amin, and said that the President is perversely applying rules which apply in a war situation, to Guantanamo Bay.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060223sentamu.shtml

 

[cavymom]

"Whatever they may say about democracy, to hold someone for up to four years without charge clearly indicates a society that is heading towards George Orwell’s Animal Farm" the archbishop said.

This is what is written on the US Department of State USINFO website regarding how they define democracy. It seems that they need a review:


DEFINING DEMOCRACY

In an authoritarian society, virtually all such organizations would be controlled, licensed, watched, or otherwise accountable to the government. In a democracy, the powers of the government are, by law, clearly defined and sharply limited. As a result, private organizations are free of government control; on the contrary, many of them lobby the government and seek to hold it accountable for its actions. Other groups, concerned with the arts, the practice of religious faith, scholarly research, or other interests, may choose to have little or no contact with the government at all.
In this busy private realm of democratic society, citizens can explore the possibilities of freedom and the responsibilities of self-government--unpressured by the potentially heavy hand of the state.
THE PILLARS OF DEMOCRACY

• Sovereignty of the people.
• Government based upon consent of the governed.
• Majority rule.
• Minority rights.
• Guarantee of basic human rights.
• Free and fair elections.
• Equality before the law.
• Due process of law.
• Constitutional limits on government.
• Social, economic, and political pluralism.
• Values of tolerance, pragmatism, cooperation, and compromise.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/whatsdem/whatdm2.htm



He's not the only one comparing Bush to "the big pig":
http://www.bartcop.com/082702farm.htm
Not about "animal Farm/Gearge Bush" but funny, and strange:
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/pigs_constitutional_rights.htm

 

[Ave Maria]

Well, we definitely don't have minority rights yet. Yes, we do have a good deal of racial equality but certain other minorities still have very little if any protection at all.

 

[Combatchuc11]

Well, we definitely don't have minority rights yet. Yes, we do have a good deal of racial equality but certain other minorities still have very little if any protection at all.

What minorities would those be?

 

[Ave Maria]

What minorities would those be?

Homosexuals do not have equal rights to heterosexuals in my opinion.

 

[Ave Maria]

Symptoms of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncomm on for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free __expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Now that sounds eerily familiar!

 

[Combatchuc11]

Homosexuals do not have equal rights to heterosexuals in my opinion.

I don't think that necesarrily falls into a minority that even needs it's rights protected.... Unless you're speaking off the right to act as one wishes and receive whatever you feel you should receive. Homosexuals are oppressed because he U.S. doesn' let them marry? Maybe pedophiles are oppressed because we don't let hem marry who they love. We also don't honor marriage between a brother and a sister. You say that's different, and it might be now a days, however, 30 years ago, it was in in the came category, and who knows, 50 years from now, maybe it will be again, both as groups of people with legislative protection.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

Now that sounds eerily familiar!

Yes, but not the U.S. You may be able to stretch three of that list to be descriptive of the U.S. today.

BTW, this Archbishop is an ignorant man. I don't like Bush, but Idi Amin? Give me a break!

 

[Anderlecht]

Symptoms of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncomm on for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free __expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Symptom #8 is interesting. I'd say that, that also applies for naturalism and atheism. Those are religions too imho.

 

[Combatchuc11]

Lol, both the lists on democracy AND fascism were grossly inaccurate. The fascism one was the dumbest, however. Is the U.S. a little fascist? Of course it is! Every country in the world is a little fascist. Fascism is all about putting the country above the individual. To be completely non-fascist would probably simply degrade into anarchy. If you want a strong nation (military wise), you have to accept and sometimes promote fascist concepts. Fascism isn't unjust by nature, it's only unjust when unjust people are in charge of it. Are there things in this country I disagree with? Of course, that's what the democratic part does. Democracy means everybody gets a say and sometimes the majority will have an opinion different from yours. That's still democracy so don't confuse fascism with not getting your way. If everyone is so unhappy with our current political condition, then become more active in your local politics. Democracy fails if you let it.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

Symptom #8 is interesting. I'd say that, that also applies for naturalism and atheism. Those are religions too imho.

You are also correct, the USSR being Exhibit 1.

 

[ebia]

BTW, this Archbishop is an ignorant man. I don't like Bush, but Idi Amin? Give me a break!

You may disagree with ++York's views, but he is certainly not ignorant.

 

[Athene]

Now that sounds eerily familiar!

That list was scary.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

You may disagree with ++York's views, but he is certainly not ignorant.

If he says Bush is like Idi Amin, he is certainly ignorant of Idi Amin. Amin was openly having tens of thousands of his own citizens murdered. He was a cannibal as well. I don't think a lot of Bush, but he does nothing that even approaches that.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

That list was scary.

The list is scary, but it is not a definition of fascism. It was a list compiled by people who wanted to try to show that the Bush Administration was headed toward fascisim.

Merriam-Webster's says:

fas·cism 'fa-"shi-z&m : noun Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality -- J. W. Aldridge>

 

[ebia]

If he says Bush is like Idi Amin, he is certainly ignorant of Idi Amin.

He grew up in Uganda and fled the country because of Amin, so it seems highly unlikely that he is as ignorant of Idi Amin as you suppose.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

He grew up in Uganda and fled the country because of Amin, so it seems highly unlikely that he is as ignorant of Idi Amin as you suppose.

Well, then, he is a false accuser. If he has knowledge of Amin and claims Bush is like him, then he can only be exaggerating because he hates Bush. Not good credentials for an alleged bishop.

 

[Anderlecht]

That list was scary.

Scary as in "The Blair Witch-hunt Project"?

 

[ebia]

Well, then, he is a false accuser. If he has knowledge of Amin and claims Bush is like him, then he can only be exaggerating because he hates Bush. Not good credentials for an alleged bishop.

Or perhaps he is making a point that some people don't want to hear.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

Or perhaps he is making a point that some people don't want to hear.

By comparing Bush to a cannibal and a man who orchestrated death squads against his own people? That's not "a point." That's slander.