Anyone else have a unique eschatology?

[dwb001]

Just that.

I am looking to see if there are people with a unique eschatology AND are open to changing their minds.

I put a bit of a twist on the end but there you go. I can't be the only person with a unique (in my opinion) eschatology and still approach eschatology with an open mind.

My particular flavor of eschatology is pre-trib post-mill rapture. Who out there is also an odd duck?

 

[Petros2015]

My particular flavor of eschatology is pre-trib post-mill rapture. Who out there is also an odd duck?

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Personally, I've always wondered if John was looking at tanks when he saw this; the turret wouldn't have made sense to him, he would never have seen an explosion before "smoke that kills with the roar of a lion", but he might have been looking at it backwards and thought the cannon was a "tail" and smelt the brimstone (sulphur) of gunpowder.

 

[dwb001]

I've certainly seen some unique ones over time here. "New-Jerusalem death-star vs resurrected Evil Dead" was one of my favorites. It's hiding out in the moon, you know? That's why the moon glows with it's own light.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Personally, I've always wondered if John was looking at a tank when he saw this; the turret wouldn't have made sense to him, he would never have seen an explosion before "smoke that kills with the roar of a lion", but he might have been looking at it backwards and thought the cannon was a "tail".

So that is not a proper response to my question.

Let's not talk about others but keep the conversation about our own eschatologies.

 

[Petros2015]

So that is not a proper response to my question.

Let's not talk about others but keep the conversation about our own eschatologies.

My apologies, I will edit my earlier post.

The Roman and Eastern Catholic traditions tend to treat Revelations more as a spiritual event, or as something which has already been brought to pass (i.e. the fall of Jerusalem, 666 representing Nero - there is a strong argument for this), though I definitely see hallmarks of fulfillment in current or potential events (i.e. the tanks) for some of it's passages. "the sky rolling back like a scroll" or "something like a burning mountain cast into the sea" sound suspiciously like nuclear or asteroid strike events John would not have been familiar with, that I don't think have been seen yet, but certainly could be. I grew up on "the Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey, but also grew out of it, I suppose. I am not anticipating a rapture, but wouldn't say no if invited, or be too disheartened if not. "Thy will be done." I can certainly foresee a cataclysm or two with or without Christ's return.

 

[AYM]

I'm still studying eschatology and I find that the more I know, the more I know that I don't know.

But my personal rule of thumb is that if I'm reading something out of the text that no one else is saying, it's best to recheck what I'm reading or be absolutely sure of what I'm looking at.

For the record, I'm pretty much an amillenial historicist - though I believe historicism was the commonly held view until dispensational premillenialism took over in the 20th century. (And I did read books like Late Great Planet Earth as a kid and was dispensationalist as a kid).

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Just that.

I am looking to see if there are people with a unique eschatology AND are open to changing their minds.

I put a bit of a twist on the end but there you go. I can't be the only person with a unique (in my opinion) eschatology and still approach eschatology with an open mind.

My particular flavor of eschatology is pre-trib post-mill rapture. Who out there is also an odd duck?

I have an odd-ish approach to eschatology, but even so, I don't typically like to paint myself into a particular label; I just ecclectically nit-pick bits and pieces from all of the other labels.

As for changing my perspective, I'm not sure I can change my mind on something that I never settled upon in the first place. I am open to hearing what everyone else thinks though. That way, I can add them to my list of "people I've heard tell me a thing or two about the End Times."

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I'm still studying eschatology and I find that the more I know, the more I know that I don't know.

But my personal rule of thumb is that if I'm reading something out of the text that no one else is saying, it's best to recheck what I'm reading or be absolutely sure of what I'm looking at.

I agree. If someone has a view that no one else has, then that raises a red flag because God doesn't reveal truth to just one person.

For the record, I'm pretty much an amillenial historicist - though I believe historicism was the commonly held view until dispensational premillenialism took over in the 20th century. (And I did read books like Late Great Planet Earth as a kid and was dispensationalist as a kid).

I'm mostly an amillennial idealist, but that doesn't mean I see everything from an idealist standpoint. I see some prophecies as being fulfilled in 70 AD, for example, and some others being fulfilled in history like you, with some having an ongoing fulfillment and some yet to be fulfilled. In terms of the book of Revelation, I take mostly an idealist view of it, but can see preterist, historical and futurist aspects in there as well.

 

[AYM]

I agree. If someone has a view that no one else has, then that raises a red flag because God doesn't reveal truth to just one person.


I'm mostly an amillennial idealist, but that doesn't mean I see everything from an idealist standpoint. I see some prophecies as being fulfilled in 70 AD, for example, and some others being fulfilled in history like you, with some having an ongoing fulfillment and some yet to be fulfilled. In terms of the book of Revelation, I take mostly an idealist view of it, but can see preterist, historical and futurist aspects in there as well.

I learned something new today! I didn't know there was a specific position called "Idealism" and had to look it up. I'd agree with you that there are many idealistic aspects to prophecy/eschatology as well, especially Revelation.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Just that.

I am looking to see if there are people with a unique eschatology AND are open to changing their minds.

I put a bit of a twist on the end but there you go. I can't be the only person with a unique (in my opinion) eschatology and still approach eschatology with an open mind.

My particular flavor of eschatology is pre-trib post-mill rapture. Who out there is also an odd duck?

No pre, mid or post tribulation.
No millennium
No rapture
No second temple
No (the) anti Christ
Yes the second comming
Yes, a last day
Yes, a ressurection
Yes judgment day
Yes a new heaven and earth " The New Jerusalem "

I think that's it for my take on eschatology.

Blessings

 

[AYM]

I have an odd-ish approach to eschatology, but even so, I don't typically like to paint myself into a particular label; I just ecclectically nit-pick bits and pieces from all of the other labels.

As for changing my perspective, I'm not sure I can change my mind on something that I never settled upon in the first place. I am open to hearing what everyone else thinks though. That way, I can add them to my list of "people I've heard tell me a thing or two about the End Times."

That's how I was until I learned that my positions were pretty close to "amillenial historicism". And now that I know idealism is a thing, I can't say that I'm a pure historicist.

You make a good point. Labels are good on a coarse level, but when we get granular, things can get confusing ...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That's how I was until I learned that my positions were pretty close to "amillenial historicism". And now that I know idealism is a thing, I can't say that I'm a pure historicist.

You make a good point. Labels are good on a coarse level, but when we get granular, things can get confusing ...

Yep, that's what I found after studying it all for a couple of decades. Now, I just kind of go with, "Lord, you know!"

Still, my view of 666 is one that keeps me being the odd-man-out and remaining in a sort of transmogrified form of Pre-millenialism. But I don't bash anyone else for their own eschatological views. We all have it hard on this count and I could all too easily be wrong.

 

[AYM]

Yep, that's what I found after studying it all for a couple of decades. Now, I just kind of go with, "Lord, you know!"

Still, my view of 666 is one that keeps me being the odd-man-out and remaining in a sort of transmogrified form of Pre-millenialism. But I don't bash anyone else for their own eschatological views. We all have it hard on this count and I could all too easily be wrong.

What is your view of 666?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I learned something new today! I didn't know there was a specific position called "Idealism" and had to look it up. I'd agree with you that there are many idealistic aspects to prophecy/eschatology as well, especially Revelation.

Yeah, I wasn't really familiar with that term and some of the other terms we use in relation to end times until I joined a different forum many years ago.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What is your view of 666?

For starters, I have a hard time seeing it as a mere reference to a "Revived Nero." I just can't digest that one like everyone else seems to do.

But who knows? Maybe I'm wrong to think it's an allusion to King Solomon and an echo of the book of Ecclesiates.

 

[YorkieGal]

I didn't even know what the word 'eschatology' meant until now

 

[AYM]

For starters, I have a hard time seeing it as a mere reference to a "Revived Nero." I just can't digest that one like everyone else seems to do.

But who knows? Maybe I'm wrong to think it's an allusion to King Solomon and an echo of the book of Ecclesiates.

That's.... definitely unique.

 

[keras]

My particular flavor of eschatology is pre-trib post-mill rapture

This is an oxymoron.
You cannot have a rapture pre tribulation, after the Millennium.

Will the world just continue on, more or less as we are now? Or will there be a 'reset of Civilization' similar to what happened in Noah's time?
I believe the latter, God did destroy the antediluvian peoples and He says He will do it again; this time with fire. 2 Peter 3:1-7, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, the event which will come as a thief and dramatically change the world, Revelation 6:12-17


It seems that Noah's society was quite similar to our own today. Just getting on with life as normal. But the similarity that both societies have that our Creator God cannot allow to continue, is how the majority of the people have no regard for and ignore their Maker.
Humans are like self drive cars that have gone off every which way!

A non Christian may ask; Why are we here? They fail to read God's Word that states His intention: To have a people who believe in the Creator God and have chosen of their free will, to keep His Commandments. They will be the ones who will go with God into Eternity, the rest of mankind will not. Revelation 20:11-15 and Revelation 21:1-7


Malachi 3:16-18 Those who feared the Lord talked together and the Lord paid heed and listened. A record was Written before Him of those who feared His and respected His Name. [the Book of Life]
They will be Mine, says the Lord of Hosts, My own precious possession on the Day that I appoint, for I shall spare them as a man spares the son who serves him.
Once more it will be known who are righteous and who are wicked, between the servants of God and those who do not serve Him.

 

[Jamdoc]

Probably. I had people come down on me hard for claiming Revelation 19 isn't Jesus coming down from heaven (he's already covered with blood from slaying His enemies as in Isaiah 63, and Jesus comes back on the clouds, not on a flying horse). One of the rationales? I'm the only one who makes such a claim and literally everyone believes Revelation 19 OBVIOUSLY depicts Jesus riding down from heaven on a flying white horse., and they come up with all kinds of explanations for the robes dipped in blood.
I've heard that it's "symbolic of the blood He shed for us", but scripture doesn't say that.
I've heard it's "the blood of the tribulation saints transported to His robes" but scripture doesn't say that.

Scripture says:
Isaiah 63

1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

so the day of vengeance and year of redemption comes, and Jesus (who else is mighty to save?), is seen by the prophet in glorious apparel stained in blood. He asks why Jesus is covered in blood, and Jesus answers it is the blood of His enemies that He killed in His anger, His wrath, His fury.

5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

Jesus is on Earth killing His enemies... and nobody is with Him. He is alone. No eschatology system can place this chapter, they will just brush it off as something in the past, and not really know what.

6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.

This is proof that it is Jesus the chapter is talking about, not the prophet, or any king. But Jesus. There is only ONE name by which we must be saved. ONE Savior.

Thus Jesus as He appears in Revelation 19, has already been on Earth alone, while the Saints were with God the Father in heaven, Revelation 19 is when they join Him on Earth, for His final victory.

But try to place Isaiah 63, if you disagree with me. Tell me where it is that Jesus is on the Earth alone, treading His wrath, if Revelation 19 is the second coming.

 

[Mr E]

It's cyclical and seasonal.... what has come before will come again. History repeats itself. His story repeats itself.

What exists now is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done;
there is nothing truly new on earth.
Is there anything about which someone can say, “Look at this! It is new”?
It was already done long ago, before our time.
No one remembers the former events,
nor will anyone remember the events that are yet to happen;
they will not be remembered by the future generations.

 

[keras]

But try to place Isaiah 63, if you disagree with me. Tell me where it is that Jesus is on the Earth alone, treading His wrath

Isaiah 63:1-6, is a description of the Sixth Seal devastation and depopulation of the Middle East. As Ezekiel 30:1-5m Zephaniah 1:14-18 and many other Prophesies tell us. The blood splashing His garments is allegorical, as Jesus does not actually touch earth on His Terrible Day of fiery wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4, Amos 1 & 2:1-5