Any Pre-Wrath-ers?

Quantum Paradise

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Just wondering if there are any on here who hold to the pre-wrath rapture model, and what pieces of evidence you think best signify this being accurate? I am coming from a mid-post tribulation position, and am hoping to get some insight on this topic to hopefully expand my knowledge a bit. Care to share anyone?
 

miamited

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Just wondering if there are any on here who hold to the pre-wrath rapture model, and what pieces of evidence you think best signify this being accurate? I am coming from a mid-post tribulation position, and am hoping to get some insight on this topic to hopefully expand my knowledge a bit. Care to share anyone?

Hi QP,

Yes, I hold to the pre-wrath understanding of the timing of the rapture. I find the most convincing argument in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ itself.

Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39like a son of man, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42"Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-43the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped. Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-44the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, "Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-45for its grapes are ripe." So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-46winepress of the wrath of God. And http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-47the winepress was trodden http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-48outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-49a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/revelation/14.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-c

Here, the Lord seems to lay out a chronology for us. First comes Jesus and he harvests from the earth all that are his. Then, seemingly immediately following, comes the second angel and he harvests all those left behind by Jesus and throws them into the winepress of God's wrath.

The tribulation is just exactly what the name defines. A time of trouble for the believer. It is a time when believers will be tested and tried by the wicked of the world and we will be here, those who are alive in that day, to endure through it. God, however, cuts short those days and sends His Son to call all who are his to safety as God unleashes His pent up wrath against those who remain upon the earth.

Immediately after this Jesus will return with his and establish the millennial reign. Only those who were raptured will be alive during this reign as the Scriptures clearly tell us that the wicked will remain in their graves at this time. After Jesus' millennial reign, the rest of the dead are resurrected and we come to God's final judgment. This is when we will find out whether anyone's name is written in the Lamb's Book of life. For those whose names are so contained, we will then enter the eternal existence spoken of in the last chapters of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. We will live in a protected city where God will be our God and we will be His people forever and ever and ever more.

That's how I understand the timing of the rapture and what immediately precedes it and what follows.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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miamited

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we could beat a dead horse.........

That'll make it run faster :D

Hi BOTV,

Well, that sentiment could be made of just about every thread on these boards. Nearly every subject has been discussed before and many at great length, but that doesn't mean someone new won't have the same question or that another might have new questions to come to mind. Seeing as how the OP only has 19 posts, I believe they would qualify as the first.

I agree that many of these threads have been hashed and rehashed and my practice for some of them is just not to get in on the discussion. However, we, as born again believers, are encouraged to speak the truth in love and so I try to follow that.

It is not true that if you beat a dead horse it will run faster. Therefore, you must surely have been mocking the OP. I'm not sure that qualifies as speaking the truth in love. But I will certainly allow that there are times that I feel exactly the same way about many of the discussions on these boards.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Quantum Paradise

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Hi QP,

Yes, I hold to the pre-wrath understanding of the timing of the rapture. I find the most convincing argument in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ itself.

...

Here, the Lord seems to lay out a chronology for us. First comes Jesus and he harvests from the earth all that are his. Then, seemingly immediately following, comes the second angel and he harvests all those left behind by Jesus and throws them into the winepress of God's wrath.

The tribulation is just exactly what the name defines. A time of trouble for the believer. It is a time when believers will be tested and tried by the wicked of the world and we will be here, those who are alive in that day, to endure through it. God, however, cuts short those days and sends His Son to call all who are his to safety as God unleashes His pent up wrath against those who remain upon the earth.

Immediately after this Jesus will return with his and establish the millennial reign. Only those who were raptured will be alive during this reign as the Scriptures clearly tell us that the wicked will remain in their graves at this time. After Jesus' millennial reign, the rest of the dead are resurrected and we come to God's final judgment. This is when we will find out whether anyone's name is written in the Lamb's Book of life. For those whose names are so contained, we will then enter the eternal existence spoken of in the last chapters of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. We will live in a protected city where God will be our God and we will be His people forever and ever and ever more.

That's how I understand the timing of the rapture and what immediately precedes it and what follows.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hi miamited,

This is actually quite simple and exceedingly clear, I would say that I'd agree with this absolutely.

Thanks for taking the time
 
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notreligus

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I am not a traditionalist in the sense of being a supporter of a pre-trib, premillennial position, but I am a futurist. I believe that a time of lawlessness (I don't see Paul's mention of this in the epistle to the Thessalonians as metaphorical or symbolical) unlike any other in history is in the future. I don't believe that God's personal wrath is for the believer. Christ said it would be like the time of Noah during which most will be concerned with things of the flesh and have no concern for the things of God, and God will protect His people, no matter how many, as He did then.
 
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zeke37

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it seems like all rapture views are thought of as pre wrath, by their respective groups
but we all seem to define the wrath of God differently.

pre tribbers think the wrath of God is the trib, so they think they are gone for iit.
mid tribbers think the wrath begins half way through the latter day trib...
so they think they are here for the AC's arrival, but not here during his entire reign.
post tribbers understand that the trib is not the wrath of God, and that His wrath follows the trib
it is poured on those that fail the trib test.

so, basically, our disagreements on the timing of the rapture, seem to stem from this point;
some think the wrath of God is the trib, but it is NOT

im a post tribber....
the trib happens, and after the trib, THEN the wrath of God is poured out

in Rev, it is VERY easy to see that the wrath of God is NOT the trib time,
but rather the time that follows the trib

the Wrath of God begins at His Coming, at the last day.....not years earlier.
 
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Quantum Paradise

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it seems like all rapture views are thought of as pre wrath, by their respective groups
but we all seem to define the wrath of God differently.

pre tribbers think the wrath of God is the trib, so they think they are gone for iit.
mid tribbers think the wrath begins half way through the latter day trib...
so they think they are here for the AC's arrival, but not here during his entire reign.
post tribbers understand that the trib is not the wrath of God, and that His wrath follows the trib
it is poured on those that fail the trib test.

so, basically, our disagreements on the timing of the rapture, seem to stem from this point;
some think the wrath of God is the trib, but it is NOT

im a post tribber....
the trib happens, and after the trib, THEN the wrath of God is poured out

in Rev, it is VERY easy to see that the wrath of God is NOT the trib time,
but rather the time that follows the trib

the Wrath of God begins at His Coming, at the last day.....not years earlier.

Zeke,

Would you say that the bowl judgments are really just part of the trib, or do these count as the wrath of God? Aren't these described as the "bowls of wrath"?
 
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zeke37

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imo they are poured at His Coming, after the trib/last day of it

noting the phrase "wrath of God" or a facsimile,
is a good way to start to build a timeline in Rev


the following all occur or culminate on the last day

-in Rev19, He is leaving heaven still having the wrath of God with Him
-in Rev6's 6th seal, we read of the heavenly signs, and folks hide from His Coming and His wrath,
noting that it is now wrath day
-in Rev11's 7th trump, it's the time of the dead, wrath, reward, punishment
-in Rev14, the harvest is divided and the wrath is readied
-in Rev16, the wrath is actually poured out
 
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