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Any other book

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by peace4ever, Jun 12, 2009.

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  1. peace4ever

    peace4ever Newbie

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    Let's engage in fantasy for a moment like Darwinists do and pretend that the bible wasn't written by God but by a fallible human author, particularly a fiction novelist since the secular world claims that the bible is fiction.

    Would you argue and fight about words in a fiction book and try to change the words in it? :eek: How much time would you spend trying to change the ending of "Little red Riding Hood" to make the "Big Bad Wolf" into a good guy?^_^

    If a fiction author said that the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemned you to hell, would you get furious and slander the author?:D

    Of course not...unless you had some kind of mental disorder. Yet that's what the secular world tries to do with the bible that they claim is fiction. :eek: So either the secular world is so deluded that they can't tell fact from fantasy, or they know deep inside that the bible is the infallible Word of God, or both.

    That's called suppression. Suppression is when someone consciously tries to deny something he knows to be true in his sub-conscience. An example of that is an alcoholic who is drunk most of his life and denies that he as a drinking problem.

    I've asked this same question before to atheists and their response was;

    "We're not afraid of the bible, we're afraid of Christians who believe the bible.'

    My response to them is; Are you afraid of "Trekkies" (Star Trek fans)?:eek: Are you afraid of the fans of Harry Potter books?^_^ And better yet, do you curse the "Big Bad Wolf", Darth Vader or any other fiction character you consider a villain? If they tried to convince you that those books are true, would you argue with them? Or would you dismiss them as lunatics?

    So sorry, but trying to change the words of a book you claim is fiction betrays your real knowledge that you know the bible was written by God and is thus, true.;)

    So God is right, as always, in Romans 1:18, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godless men who have suppressed the truth by their wickedness." That it is. ;)

    So instead of trying to prove God wrong or think you know better than God does, you would fare much better if you listened to Him because only He can determine your ultimate fate. ;)
     
  2. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    First you provide Scripture that the Bible was either

    a Dictated by

    or

    b Written by God.

    Mine only says 'inspired by', and any visit to a Christian bookshop will show that being inspired by God is no guarantee against mediocrity, pretention and downright drivel.

    Not that the Bible is any of those things, but just illustrating the problem with 'inspired by God' as a guarantee of infallibility, or anything else, for that matter.

    So, you prove from Scripture rather than personal opinion the Bible's authorship as divine, and the text's incorruptible and infallible status, and then we can engage in discussion.

    And incidentally you may care to note that nobody says the Bible is fiction, just that it is not literal history, for the simple reason that it does not anywhere claim to be literal history. In the same way as it does not claim to have been dictated by God, or to be infallible, or to be the final arbiter in all decisions.

    It isn't rocket science. :)

    In fact, the Bible does not say so. The Bible says that the Word of God is Christ himself. Which makes your above statement both unBiblical and idolatrous, in raising that which is in creation to the status of the Creator.

    Nice going. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2009
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  3. peace4ever

    peace4ever Newbie

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    I just did. :eek: The fact that you even take its words seriously enough to come here and discuss them proves that deep inside you know it's written by God...unless you argue and fight about the words in "The Iliad and the Odyssey" that was written by a human author. ^_^

    So sorry friend, but look inside at your own contradictions because until you do, you won't be able to tell the difference between fact and fantasy. ;)
     
  4. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    I take lots of books seriously, P4e. And I read them as well.

    Care to address the issues I raised now, as our faith is not determined by what someone 'knows deep inside', but by what is actually written?

    :wave:
     
  5. CTyer

    CTyer Servant of the Lord

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    Excellent post and makes absolute sense. They spend 24-7-365 trying to dispute it because they do know in their consciences that it's true or like you said, if you think it's a load of fiction, why bother? I was laughing all the way through it. Thanks for the laugh!

    Calvin Tyer
     
  6. CTyer

    CTyer Servant of the Lord

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    Actually that's only half right. The Word of God is indeed confirmed by what someone knows "deep within them".

    Calvin Tyer
     
  7. peace4ever

    peace4ever Newbie

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    And how often do you try to change the words in the fiction books you read?:eek: If it's often, then why is that? :scratch:
     
  8. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    Small 'w' for Bible. :) Big W for Christ.

    The word cannot be confirmed if it is not first written.

    If it isn't written, then it is just a warm fuzzy, without Biblical justification, is it not?
     
  9. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    I neither change the fiction nor non fiction books I read. What would be the point of that, exactly? Sometimes I agree with the non fiction, sometimes I don't. But I never bother to get the tippex out. ^_^

    However, neither do I attempt to add to the words of Scripture, and read what is not there. I have pointed out several statements that you have made which are not Scriptural, and yet you seem to think this is not important.

    So what exactly is your point, if you are happy to add to Scripture yourself, despite the warnings against constructing a man made gospel?
     
  10. peace4ever

    peace4ever Newbie

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    Good. Then I trust you won't change God's words in Genesis to; "God created the earth 4.5 billion years ago by an explosion", like many people try to do, nor add to Genesis 2:7 to make it read; "For the Lord God formed the man out of the wombs of apes" like many do. If you're one who reads scripture as written , then my OP is not addressed to you. It's addressed to the many people who claim that the bible is fiction, yet tries to change its words.:wave:
     
  11. CTyer

    CTyer Servant of the Lord

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    Says you. Christ IS the WORD OF GOD made manifest in the flesh. (see John 1:1-3, 14) I choose to capitalize the W in word, when I reference God's Word as opposed to words of men, to make the proper distinction. It is my choice and last I checked I still have the freedom of expression and I don't owe you an explanation for my methods, but yet I offered you one. If you don't like it then simply ignore it.

    Calvin Tyer
     
  12. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    You can do what you like, CT.

    In the Bible, however, the word of God refers to the written scriptures, and the Word of God is a title reserved for Christ alone.

    This is not my opinion, it is what the Bible says. :wave:

    Meanwhile, I have not had an answer to one single substantive point. How interesting.
     
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  13. andross77

    andross77 Senior Member

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    Very well stated. If people didn't deep down think there was truth to Scripture they would not care what it said. As another example could go, if i believed that the Left Behind Series books was 100% true, I sure as sin wouldn't be naming my son Nicolae ;)

    This makes no sense. There is only 1 book (a collection of 66 books) that are truly inspired by the Holy Spirit. This Bible, written by God, is by the very definition of it's author guaranteed to be free of mediocrity, pretention and downright drivel. God is perfect, so He can only write a perfect book. Maybe you don't understand the concept of God?

    "inspired by God" is in fact a guarantee of infallibility and all that. The Left Behind series is not inspired by God. John Piper's books are not God inspired. Blue Like Jazz is not inspired by God. etc, etc.

    2 Timothy 3:16. NEXT!

    :doh::doh::doh:

    Actually Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther and Acts are VERY historical books.

    2 Timothy 3:16 claims that Scripture is dictated by God, so wrong again on your part. That same verse also claims that it is infallible and the final arbiter in all decisions. If Scripture is GOD-BREATHED it means it came from God's own mouth. Since God cannot lie (or else He wouldn't be God) everything He says is infallible and perfect for all decisions needing to made in life.

    I won't even get into 2 Peter 1:21 for now. But by saying what you have said, you are in direct disagreement with Scripture. You say statements that make me think you haven't read the Bible you so confidently speak about.

    Apparently, it is for some....
     
  14. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to. Because my Bible does not have the words, 'This is a factual account, to be taken literally in all points' included within it.

    The Bible is no more a scientific textbook than it is fiction. It is what it says it is, nothing more, nothing less.

    Incidentally, the earth was not created by an explosion. :wave:
     
  15. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you don't understand the meaning of the word 'inspired.'

    On whose authority do you say this? Certainly not that of the Bible.

    They contain some historical content, but they are not history books in the sense that we understand the term.

    You are mistaken, I am afraid. Timothy says nothing about God dictating anything. I think you need to look again.

    God is certainly perfect and infallible. But there is no Scripture whatever which says that he granted his own perfection and infallibility to any part of his creation whatever.

    This is a projection. I am sticking to what the Bible actually says. You are adding to it.

    Those who have eyes to see, let them see. :)
     
  16. andross77

    andross77 Senior Member

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    Wow, you don't understand Scripture at all. I put it in front of you and you reject it. Can't do anything with that. Peace. :wave:
     
  17. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    Nice attempted projection. :cool:

    I have rejected nothing from Scripture. I have called you on man made gospel, which we are warned against in Scripture and you indeed cannot do anything with that. Except, of course, look to see what is actually written, rather than what you think is written.

    Completely different thing.
     
  18. andross77

    andross77 Senior Member

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    i gave you Scripture, you rejected it. there is nothing else i can or want to do. i'm not here to convince people. i post Scripture so that God's Word can show people the Truth. You rejected 2 Timothy 3:16. That is your choice and i'm leaving it there.
     
  19. Jase

    Jase New Member

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    It's Bibliolatry. You and peace are exalting the Bible to divine status, when it is words on paper that have been altered, translated, misinterpreted, and selectively compiled by humans for thousands of years. The Bible is not God, stop acting like it is.
     
  20. andross77

    andross77 Senior Member

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    no one is saying the Bible is God. We are saying the Bible is God-breathed! (2 Timothy 3:16). This means it is the thoughts of God and are therefore perfect and infallible. God would not put his thoughts into human writers minds and have them write it down and then let it get all twisted and transformed into something He never intended it to be. If He let that happen, He would be weak, and therefore, not God.
     
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