Any experience/discernment about EMDR therapy please.

[Carl Emerson]

EMDR seems science based, but I am unclear about how it 'works' and if it is spiritually clean...

I have an associate seeking to alleviate the effects of trauma through this methodology.

Comments appreciated.

 

[Aaron112]

Online in depth research (5 minutes)
shows that they do not understand how or why it works.

It is part of a big system that might not have a person's best interests at heart... i.e. for carnal or profitable reasons instead ....

It might work, just like a few decades ago different eye movements or (maybe even) arm movements done specifically to change or relieve some stress in a person did or could work, without knowing for sure why or how it worked ... (like accurate acupuncture? or reflexology ? ) ...

There are other proven ways that work and for a lot less money.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Online in depth research (5 minutes)
shows that they do not understand how or why it works.

It is part of a big system that might not have a person's best interests at heart... i.e. for carnal or profitable reasons instead ....

It might work, just like a few decades ago different eye movements or (maybe even) arm movements done specifically to change or relieve some stress in a person did or could work, without knowing for sure why or how it worked ... (like accurate acupuncture? or reflexology ? ) ...

There are other proven ways that work and for a lot less money.

Not sure the 5 minutes on Google is scientific.

Can you list some of the 'proven ways' please.

 

[Aaron112]

Not sure the 5 minutes on Google is scientific.

Can you list some of the 'proven ways' please.

Not at all trying to be scientific. That's one reason I mentioned 5 minutes and google...



For some of the 'proven ways', the only way that might be possible to find and use them could be to find an experienced tester, (or a support group , there used to be many, that discusses their methods of success used and where) ....
that has a track record of actual (not claimed) success (even if on internet search, though it must be still tested to verify , step by step as possible) ,

It took quite some time (years) to find some successful , as they are not permitted to advertise , including some laymen's groups that have been successful since before 1950.
Quite extraordinary results are possible, but since they are so inexpensive, the other ones who control the scene don't like it nor tell about it, nor practice it, and they take quite a lot of legal and social action, including media, against anyone standing for truth and actually succeeding God's Way.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not at all trying to be scientific. That's one reason I mentioned 5 minutes and google...



For some of the 'proven ways', the only way that might be possible to find and use them could be to find an experienced tester, (or a support group , there used to be many, that discusses their methods of success used and where) ....
that has a track record of actual (not claimed) success (even if on internet search, though it must be still tested to verify , step by step as possible) ,

It took quite some time (years) to find some successful , as they are not permitted to advertise , including some laymen's groups that have been successful since before 1950.
Quite extraordinary results are possible, but since they are so inexpensive, the other ones who control the scene don't like it nor tell about it, nor practice it, and they take quite a lot of legal and social action, including media, against anyone standing for truth and actually succeeding God's Way.

Tell me more - be specific if possible.

 

[linux.poet]

I thought the heart of EMDR was moving your eyes from side to side while recounting painful experiences. This is what your body does when your body is walking, and so the side to side movement makes it seem to your body like you are advancing toward your enemy to conquer or end them.

Thus it's supposed to be therapy for folks whose lives are out of control and for those who face seemingly impossible challenges.

 

[Paidiske]

I understand (from more than five minutes' research) that it can be very effective, particularly for people whose trauma was relatively uncomplicated. (Complex PTSD is known to respond less well). As I understand it, splitting your attention by focussing on the eye movements causes a "break" in the concentration on the trauma - so it means you can kind of engage with the trauma without being entirely overwhelmed - allowing for those memories to be better integrated and reducing symptoms. There's a solid neurological basis to that.

I have no reason to believe there's any particular spiritual issue with it. I have not tried it personally largely because it tends to be expensive and hard to access, and my own history makes me a poor candidate for good results.

For a good solid take on trauma and possible avenues of treatment, I haven't come across anything better than Bessel Van Der Kolk's book, The Body Keeps the Score.

 

[Hermit76]

I have had a couple sessions. I'm not sure if it did much as it wasn't continued. There didn't really seem to have any spiritual context at all. My understanding is the same as Paidiske's. It seems to me that it was a way to trick the mind in order to disassociate the traumatic memories from the negative emotions, etc.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Interesting, one of the OT promises is the removal of the memory of the enemies.

 

[Gary K]

Interesting, one of the OT promises is the removal of the memory of the enemies.

I would trust prayer, studying God's word, and trusting God much more than anything else. I was abused physically, sexually, and emotionally growing up and that is the only thing I've ever used. I have recovered very well, much better than any psychologist could ever do for anyone.

I was so messed up that the summer after I graduated from high school i deliberately started using drugs to destroy myself. I was really burnt out within a few years as I took everything I could get my hands on. I did a lot of acid, downers like pcp, and other drugs that really messed me up. I was raised in a religious, bur not Christian home and eventually started walking the streets at night looking up at the stars and asking the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob if He was real, and if He was would He show me He was. That fall I tore my ankle really badly playing basketball and couldn't work. I had no place to go but to my parents house to live and so I wrote them a letter telling them I would be on a bus on a certain date at a certain time and got on the bus and went to where they were living. It took me more than a year to get to where my ankle was well enough to work again. I spent that entire winter reading Ellen White's books and by the time I read Desire of Ages I had been converted. I realized that God loved me, personally. It was a life changing miracle. God changed my life. He's a miracle working God who loves us far more than we can understand, and if we will just place ourselves in His hands He will change our lives. Jesus said the following:

John 14: 27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.

Peace of mind is what we need and Jesus gave us His promise that if we will trust Him He will give us His peace,

I don't know if the person you work with is a Christian or not but if he/she is I would introduce them to this. I'm a huge proponent of the power of prayer and will put this person on my prayer list. I've seen so many answers to prayer lately that it's incredible. I have a neighbor that I put on my prayer list and within a few months she has started going to church. She's 40 with a 5 year old boy and is covered with tats. She looked to be a very unpromising subject for prayer.

I have a granddaughter who was a victim of abuse fae worse than what I went through growing up and as a result became a drug addict, heroin, who was married to as very abusive guy who got a divorce and is saying God has been working in her life,and she is not a Christian. God is a God of miracles.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would trust prayer, studying God's word, and trusting God much more than anything else. I was abused physically, sexually, and emotionally growing up and that is the only thing I've ever used. I have recovered very well, much better than any psychologist could ever do for anyone.

I was so messed up that the summer after I graduated from high school i deliberately started using drugs to destroy myself. I was really burnt out within a few years as I took everything I could get my hands on. I did a lot of acid, downers like pcp, and other drugs that really messed me up. I was raised in a religious, bur not Christian home and eventually started walking the streets at night looking up at the stars and asking the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob if He was real, and if He was would He show me He was. That fall I tore my ankle really badly playing basketball and couldn't work. I had no place to go but to my parents house to live and so I wrote them a letter telling them I would be on a bus on a certain date at a certain time and got on the bus and went to where they were living. It took me more than a year to get to where my ankle was well enough to work again. I spent that entire winter reading Ellen White's books and by the time I read Desire of Ages I had been converted. I realized that God loved me, personally. It was a life changing miracle. God changed my life. He's a miracle working God who loves us far more than we can understand, and if we will just place ourselves in His hands He will change our lives. Jesus said the following:



Peace of mind is what we need and Jesus gave us His promise that if we will trust Him He will give us His peace,

I don't know if the person you work with is a Christian or not but if he/she is I would introduce them to this. I'm a huge proponent of the power of prayer and will put this person on my prayer list. I've seen so many answers to prayer lately that it's incredible. I have a neighbor that I put on my prayer list and within a few months she has started going to church. She's 40 with a 5 year old boy and is covered with tats. She looked to be a very unpromising subject for prayer.

I have a granddaughter who was a victim of abuse fae worse than what I went through growing up and as a result became a drug addict, heroin, who was married to as very abusive guy who got a divorce and is saying God has been working in her life,and she is not a Christian. God is a God of miracles.

You and me the same brother...

See my testimony here...

Jesus's Ministry

Dear Friends, I am really puzzled about the almost complete absence of a central aspect of Jesus ministry in the Christian world today. When Jesus broke into the world He immediately demonstrated spiritual authority over powers and principalities that were binding peoples lives with sickness...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'd never heard of EMDR until it was mentioned in the OP. I was curious so I had a brief look around.

There were quite a number of sites explaining what it is, and I think the following paragraph sums up the intention.

Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy

Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) is a structured therapy that encourages the patient to briefly focus on the trauma memory and simultaneously experience bilateral stimulation (usually eye movements).

www.apa.org

Unlike other treatments that focus on directly altering the emotions, thoughts and responses resulting from traumatic experiences, EMDR therapy focuses directly on the memory, and is intended to change the way that the memory is stored in the brain, thus reducing and eliminating the problematic symptoms.

As to whether it works the following article gave a qualified "Yes" but went on to question it's effectiveness.

Does EMDR Therapy Work? Eye Movement Desensitization: PTSD — Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Los Angeles

Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) for PTSD: Does EMDR therapy work for posttraumatic stress or traumatic memories?

cogbtherapy.com

So, does EMDR really work? The short answer is yes… kind of. The researchers did find that EMDR was significantly more effective than placebo in reducing symptoms of PTSD, and that it was effective in reducing symptoms of most patients who completed an entire course of the therapy (Carlson et al., 1998). As a result, EMDR caught on like wildfire and was even quickly adopted by the Department of Veterans Affairs due to the promising effectiveness studies. It looked like another evidence-based treatment had been discovered, giving clinicians more options for treating people suffering from PTSD.

But there was a catch. Psychologists who had experience with the cognitive-behavioral treatment, Prolonged Exposure, recognized many of the components of the new therapy. The only difference they saw was the addition of the eye movement feature, EMDR’s defining characteristic. Following the flood of positive research, another wave of EMDR studies was published, but this time, the studies were dismantling analyses, experiments that study which parts of the treatment are most effective. Despite the fact that EMDR had been found to be a very effective treatment for PTSD when the eye movement portion was omitted from the treatment, the outcomes were exactly the same. Several important studies (i.e., Davidson and Parker, 2001) that were conducted found the same thing: the eye movement added nothing (apart from the additional expense for the therapist) to the treatment. It was merely cognitive behavioral therapy with a dash of sci-fi pseudoscience. Furthermore, subsequent studies compared patient outcomes in EMDR with those of Prolonged Exposure and found no differences.

The good news is that because the research shows that EMDR likely works no differently than Prolonged Exposure, it is still effective for the patients who receive it. The problematic piece of this is the perpetuation of this treatment despite the identification of the extra, needless components.

I think it's up to Carl Emerson's associate to make up his or her own mind. Maybe give it a go for a while and see whether he or she gains some benefit from it?