Any Anglican Catholic Ordinariate people here?

[RadixLecti]

Are there any people here involved in the Ordinariate for Anglo-Catholics returning to full communion with Rome? I am becoming more and more interested in the idea, and I would love to hear from some people about how they feel like it is going.

 

[Michie]

Are there any people here involved in the Ordinariate for Anglo-Catholics returning to full communion with Rome? I am becoming more and more interested in the idea, and I would love to hear from some people about how they feel like it is going.

I've posted articles concerning the ordinate but never seen anyone here that was taking the leap. I wish there was. I've always been interested in their transition into the RCC.

 

[RadixLecti]

I've posted articles concerning the ordinate but never seen anyone here that was taking the leap. I wish there was. I've always been interested in their transition into the RCC.

I'm probably going that direction eventually. I think a lot of Catholics may not realize that the historic end-game of Anglo-Catholicism (for many at least) has been reunification with the RCC while maintaining those Anglican liturgical traditions that are compatible with the faith of the RCC as well as having a structure that allows them to be connected to other (former) Anglican Roman Catholics.

The Ordinariate accomplishes both of these goals. I think that there are many more Anglicans who are interested, but many are still dragging their feet a little bit. I'm hoping that this is something that continues to grow, but only time will tell.

 

[MKJ]

There was a guy who used to post here who wanted to be involved, but found that the welcome the ordinariate priests and parishes were getting was less than warm in the place where he lived. He ended up joining a regular Catholic parish.

Someone might remember who he is.

Unfortunately for those who are interested, there are really very few such parishes available.

 

[RadixLecti]

There was a guy who used to post here who wanted to be involved, but found that the welcome the ordinariate priests and parishes were getting was less than warm in the place where he lived. He ended up joining a regular Catholic parish.

I have heard this before, but don't understand what the reason for it is. Maybe some of the Catholics here can explain why this might be the case. Is there a negative feeling toward Catholics of less common liturgical rites (such as Maronites) in general, or is this something specific to the Ordinariate?

 

[MKJ]

I have heard this before, but don't understand what the reason for it is. Maybe some of the Catholics here can explain why this might be the case. Is there a negative feeling toward Catholics of less common liturgical rites (such as Maronites) in general, or is this something specific to the Ordinariate?

My impression that it was not with the laity, but with the hierarchy and individual bishops.

 

[QuantaCura]

All the Catholics I know were very happy to see so many join the Church and were also interested in experiencing some more good liturgy, etc.

The only Catholics I could even imagine being unwelcoming are judgmental people (who don't think the conversions were sincere, but more of an anti-Anglican liberal policies move) or more worldly hierarchy who think they might not get as much human respect at ecumenical pow-wows now, since many non-Catholics saw the ordinariates as a "sheep-stealing" move (which is stupid because a) it was initiated by the "sheep" and b) all the Baptized--the Lord's sheep--rightfully belong in the Lord's one flock, which is the Church entrusted to Peter and his successors. "Feed my sheep, etc.").

 

[mark46]

The Ordinariate is quite small. I discussed this with Bishop Nazr-Ali (an Anglican who was 2nd in the voting for Archbishop of Canterbury in 2005). The bishop was considering the move but rejected for many reasons. First, the rules with regard married priests is a temporary one. Also, as one poster suggested, the Ordinariate is considered a transitional place until one moved to more Catholic style worship. Had Pope Benedict presented a better option, the Ordinariate would be very large indeed. Many Anglicans (and Methodists) would feel comfortable in a better arrangement. Also some have posted that the few churches that exist are often discouraged form using the Book Of Common prayer, even with minor revisions (as the Orthodox allow in their Western Rite).

The bottom line is that Pope Benedict took a baby step. Since married priests were already allowed to become Catholic priests on a case-by-case basis, as has been the case for decades, the step did very little. Obviously a Rite would work the best in attracting folks to the Church. However, that is NOT going to happen since traditionally, the Anglican Church has been part of the West.

I have heard this before, but don't understand what the reason for it is. Maybe some of the Catholics here can explain why this might be the case. Is there a negative feeling toward Catholics of less common liturgical rites (such as Maronites) in general, or is this something specific to the Ordinariate?

 

[MKJ]

The Ordinariate is quite small. I discussed this with Bishop Nazr-Ali (an Anglican who was 2nd in the voting for Archbishop of Canterbury in 2005). The bishop was considering the move but rejected for many reasons. First, the rules with regard married priests is a temporary one. Also, as one poster suggested, the Ordinariate is considered a transitional place until one moved to more Catholic style worship. Had Pope Benedict presented a better option, the Ordinariate would be very large indeed. Many Anglicans (and Methodists) would feel comfortable in a better arrangement. Also some have posted that the few churches that exist are often discouraged form using the Book Of Common prayer, even with minor revisions (as the Orthodox allow in their Western Rite).

The bottom line is that Pope Benedict took a baby step. Since married priests were already allowed to become Catholic priests on a case-by-case basis, as has been the case for decades, the step did very little. Obviously a Rite would work the best in attracting folks to the Church. However, that is NOT going to happen since traditionally, the Anglican Church has been part of the West.

As far as I know, the idea was not to move the ordinariates to more Catholic style worship - all of the documents I read said that would not happen - the whole point was to keep a kind of English identity - that's why they would have separate formation for priests, for example.

More of an issue was that a lot of the groups that were interested had largely already abandoned Anglican style liturgies for pseudo-Roman ones, and there was no clear guarantee that the approved "anglicanish" liturgies would not just be like what is found in Common Worship or the American Rite II.

And if that is the case, one rather wonders what the point would be.

 

[MKJ]

I'm probably going that direction eventually. I think a lot of Catholics may not realize that the historic end-game of Anglo-Catholicism (for many at least) has been reunification with the RCC while maintaining those Anglican liturgical traditions that are compatible with the faith of the RCC as well as having a structure that allows them to be connected to other (former) Anglican Roman Catholics.

The Ordinariate accomplishes both of these goals. I think that there are many more Anglicans who are interested, but many are still dragging their feet a little bit. I'm hoping that this is something that continues to grow, but only time will tell.

I do not think you will see much of it, to be honest.

For one thing, even for many Anglo-Catholics who would theoretically like to see reunification, there are particular aspects of the Roman teaching about the papacy that they consider just wrong. THat is why they were not Catholic in the first place.

And secondly, if the Anglican liturgy is really important to them, they are going to want to be with a group that maintains that (which even a lot of Anglo-Catholic parishes do not).

So to be interested in the move, you would have to be a congregation of Anglicans that a) what to retain an Anglican identity but do not care too much about the historic BCP liturgy, and b) do not have any theological problems with the way Rome understands the papacy.

That is a pretty odd, and even contradictory set of qualities, so I cannot see it ever being a large group. I mean, if you accept the Roman theology on the papacy, and you use a liturgy that is pretty similar to the OF, what the heck does it mean to have an "Anglican identity".

 

[Michie]

I'm probably going that direction eventually. I think a lot of Catholics may not realize that the historic end-game of Anglo-Catholicism (for many at least) has been reunification with the RCC while maintaining those Anglican liturgical traditions that are compatible with the faith of the RCC as well as having a structure that allows them to be connected to other (former) Anglican Roman Catholics.

The Ordinariate accomplishes both of these goals. I think that there are many more Anglicans who are interested, but many are still dragging their feet a little bit. I'm hoping that this is something that continues to grow, but only time will tell.

Well if you do decide to go that direction I hope you open a thread chronicling your journey.

 

[mark46]

Indeed.

All Anglicans get is separation from the rest of the Church,

what the heck does it mean to have an "Anglican identity".

 

[MKJ]

Indeed.

All Anglicans get is separation from the rest of the Church,

I am not sure what you mean here as far as what I had said.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Mark, if it's not too personal, could you share your reasoning and story for leaving the Episcopal Church? You have very liberal beliefs and you seemed a good fit when you and I were both Anglicans? Me, well, I was NEVER a good fit. What made you go Catholic?

Indeed.

All Anglicans get is separation from the rest of the Church,

 

[mark46]

I apologize for any misunderstanding. I was simply expressing my opinion is that Anglicans who switch really don't gain very much over simply converting.

I am not sure what you mean here as far as what I had said.

 

[mark46]

Liberal views were not the issue. Catholics have been plenty politically liberal for hundreds of years on issues that matter; for example, helping the poor and the weak. As far as the Church, I am fine with the approach that the Church takes toward Tradition. If I disagree with Church on some obvious issues, I am not alone. That is true of the majority of Catholics, or close.

I came into the Catholic Church almost 30 years ago. I left 4 years ago when I retired and moved South. I came in after Vatican II. My wife came back to the Church when I came in. I was quite active. I was on the pastoral team of a Catholic Charismatic Prayer group for many years. I taught Scripture at several churches (Catholic and Protestant before that). I never had any interest in the Church before Vatican II and the Renewal. There is but one Church, with a right and left lung as JPII used to say.

I lived in New England. I grew more and more separated from the Church as the hierarchy of the Church made more and more mistakes in the coverups of the scandals, in treating priests, and in treating its loyal parishioners. The hierarchy of the Church was/is in serious trouble. We were given one of the worst offenders as our bishop. People had private meetings. Many simply left. I looked at the Episcopal Church in NH. I wasn't impressed with Bishop Robinson's church. I stayed in the Church and attended but was not active. When I retired, I looked around again and the Spirit brought me to an Anglican Church where I was welcomed and reasonably happy being part of the Universal Church (the Catholic Church rejecting some of its ordinations to the contrary).

As my diocese made its decisions in the last year, it moved me to reconsider where I was. I missed the Universal Church. I missed the Eucharist. I missed the prayer groups. I missed the reverence toward Mary and the saints. I missed high sung mass. Curiously, I greatly preferred the Catholic liturgy. My preference is for the more modern masses, so I am at odds with many here; but that's fine.
======
So, I prayed and considered. And then a breath of air came into the Church in the person of Pope Francis. There could be no holding me back. Pope Francis represents so, so much of what I love about the Church. I realized just how much difference having a pope makes. Perhaps it is selfish of me in that I agree with him so much. But a pope who wants to serve the poor and weak and who want to clean up the Curia, all while staying true to the Faith is simply awesome. The fact that he is modeling himself after Saint Francis and is a Jesuit and a scientist simply gives a connection I could not have imagined with a Holy Father.
=========
So, here I am. I still believe that the Roman Catholic Church should not have unilaterally changed the Creed. I still find that I agree much more with the consensus coming out of the Roman-Orthodox discussions than in the Catholic dogmas added since the separation. But those are my personal views. I certainly will not stay out of the Church because I disagree with the Church's understanding of primacy. I also agree with the Orthodox regarding ancestral sin. But these are theological opinions.

And, I will not allow those of the Right Wing who have successfully used the Church for its own political needs for a generation to influence my spiritual journey.
=========
So, here I am, where I belong. Sometimes I go to Anglican Church with my wife; she has not chosen to come home yet.

Mark, if it's not too personal, could you share your reasoning and story for leaving the Episcopal Church? You have very liberal beliefs and you seemed a good fit when you and I were both Anglicans? Me, well, I was NEVER a good fit. What made you go Catholic?

 

[ebia]

The Ordinariate is quite small. I discussed this with Bishop Nazr-Ali (an Anglican who was 2nd in the voting for Archbishop of Canterbury in 2005). The bishop was considering the move but rejected for many reasons. First, the rules with regard married priests is a temporary one. Also, as one poster suggested, the Ordinariate is considered a transitional place until one moved to more Catholic style worship. Had Pope Benedict presented a better option, the Ordinariate would be very large indeed. Many Anglicans (and Methodists) would feel comfortable in a better arrangement. Also some have posted that the few churches that exist are often discouraged form using the Book Of Common prayer, even with minor revisions (as the Orthodox allow in their Western Rite).

The bottom line is that Pope Benedict took a baby step. Since married priests were already allowed to become Catholic priests on a case-by-case basis, as has been the case for decades, the step did very little. Obviously a Rite would work the best in attracting folks to the Church. However, that is NOT going to happen since traditionally, the Anglican Church has been part of the West.

I really can't imagine Michael Nazir-Ali joining the RCC on any terms.

 

[WisdomTree]

I agree with the notion of the Anglican Ordinarate being temporary. Instead, we should incorporate the Anglicans fully into the Latin Church (since the jurisdictions come under the late "Patriarchate of the West"), however bring back the good ol' Sarum Rite as well as the Durham Rite, and have the distinguishing identity there like there is for the Milanese Rite (Ambroisian), Mozarabic Rite, et cetera.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Throwing in a wee bit of history - the first Christians of the Church were the 'disabled' - who naturally the Church saved because like abortion today - they denied the use of killing innocents. Especially 'abandoning' them to 'exposure.
Women - because the Church liberated them.
Children - because of their parents.
Slaves - who were 'employed' in the homes of owners who converted and were treated better.
The poor - who were often last class citizens otherwise.

And because of this - the governments [pagan gentiles] loathed Christians since they took in the oppressed - whereas in the past - they were non humans [practically].
So, yes the Church always stood up for the weak and poor and in fact - that was our start.



Welcome to the Church Radix. May your journey be given sure footing and may you experience much peace.

 

[MKJ]

I apologize for any misunderstanding. I was simply expressing my opinion is that Anglicans who switch really don't gain very much over simply converting.

Ah, yes, i see. I agree, it does not seem to have any real advantage. Maybe if the local Catholic parishes had really bad music.