Anti-Occult Training?

[lovemygod316]

I was in a Wiccan coven and away from the Lord for 10 years, and part of the reason I got sucked in so easily was that I had an early intense interest in the occult when I was an adolescent and then a teenager. Would there be any interest among youth ministers out there for a curriculum geared toward recognizing when your kids are expressing an interest in the Occult or Paganism, and how to deal with it so that they realize that God is the answer and not the Occult?

Spells, divination, astral projection, and those types of things are VERY enticing to older kids and young adults, especially if they at all feel like outcasts or social misfits in their school.

And I don't need to even say how popular things like Harry Potter are among that age group.

BTW, I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm interested in doing something like I described above totally for free for the good of the Kingdom. Seeing kids stay with God and not end up lost for 10 years like I was would be all the reward I need. I just want to know if there is a need or interest for this kind of thing among youth leaders.

 

[itdepends]

IMO, what would be helpful is to provide kids/people/etc with real world scenarios, education, and a SAFE environment to understand and explore their questions, and instead of withholding information and experience from them, you hold their hand through it. The world is spiritually violent, deceptive, and unavoidable. And even if you manage to find safety, there are others who haven't and could use help. And just as you raise your kids from being on the bottle, to being grown and able to interact with the world and try to make good choices while discerning what to do ... so to is the spiritual the same way.

I think what people do, is assume that if they put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes, and go "Na na na na na !" then the can keep evil away. If they do this enough, and have enough of other people doing it, then they can even build a community amongst themselves. But that doesn't solve the issue of those on the *outside*. Many Germans went ignorantly about their day at peace, while unbeknownst to them a concentration camp was right outside of town. So the common stance of "If we lock ourselves in here and call everything that doesn't look right evil and close the door then we'll be okay," ... that may work temporarily and give you a false sense of protection, while your brothers and sisters and children are out there still in need, under attack, helping others, or could use a break, etc.

So imo, kids/people need a place where they can be safe, shielded, and protected from the "outside" ... but with the opposite of sticking their fingers in their ears and closing their eyes. Instead, something more akin to "full disclosure." These are guns, this is how they are used. This is sex, this is what happens. These are drugs, this is how they feel, this is the end result ... etc. If you live on the plains of the Serengeti, you need to understand lions and the multitude of natural issues you will face. If you live in the city, you need to understand human predators and street smarts. If you drive a car, so on and so forth. Kids are spiritual beings, and need to understand spiritual interactions as well ... and just as we would help them with physical things so they know how to get along in society and we often do this by holding their hand instead of just "talk", so to with the spiritual. And answers of, "It's evil stay away" does nothing to help them understand WHY it's evil, how it works, why it's so deceptive, etc.

 

[lovemygod316]

Wow, that is some very awesome feedback. I would love to provide such a resource, and I really feel that God has prepared me for this kind of ministry. So how do I go about doing it? Anyone here have experience doing anything like this and sharing it with churches and other groups? Or should i just let my church know my background and that I am available if they need that type of counseling?

 

[itdepends]

Wow, that is some very awesome feedback. I would love to provide such a resource, and I really feel that God has prepared me for this kind of ministry. So how do I go about doing it? Anyone here have experience doing anything like this and sharing it with churches and other groups? Or should i just let my church know my background and that I am available if they need that type of counseling?

That's too bad there aren't more replies ... I was interested to see more input

 

[triforceYOU]

Consider asking them who their favorite music wrist is... (look for drake, Wiz Khalifa, Rihanna etc..)
What they're favorite TV show is... (look for pretty little liars etc..)
Ask them to draw their favorite shapes sideways... (Look for pagan star)
Ask them to draw a animal they admire.... (look for the goat skull)

Just a few ideas. GodBless. Also... I'd say one of the best things you can do is state your testimony and how Satanism got you into some bad scary situations that affected your finances, health, emotions, purity, sexual life, self image, self-confidence etc... They will respect you more than if you try to weasel your way into their evil little interests. But who's to say? They might be happy to explain what about Satanism entices them. Watch for admiration of the benefits of the 7 Deadly Sins.

Godbless.

 

[vespasia]

Consider asking them who their favorite music wrist is... (look for drake, Wiz Khalifa, Rihanna etc..)
What they're favorite TV show is... (look for pretty little liars etc..)
Ask them to draw their favorite shapes sideways... (Look for pagan star)
Ask them to draw a animal they admire.... (look for the goat skull)

Triforce,
You are aware that that checklist like all similar checklists will only tell you you are dealing with a teenager.

Anyone with any real interest in art and who is not drawing the underlying anatomical structure in their teens is not a serious artist. If its a poor drawing then suspect your dealing with a teen bright enough to opt for upset the christian youth worker.

Kids listen to music for how it makes them feel rather than any understanding of the words.

Forget the pent'. I would be worried if they know how to scribe glyphs and what they meant.

Wicca is not satanism, anyone who makes the mistake of thinking they are and claims that is so is going to rapidly dishonour anything they may have to say about Christ.

 

[vespasia]

I am aware the OP posted in March and may well have ceased using this forum. Been there got the t-shirt.

Firstly this is not something to walk into doing blind. Christains tend to want to wave you round as a scalp and get upset unless your willing to big up your 'testimony' and bolt bits on that suit the often salcious desire for the next slice of Christian entertainment. It takes real strength of character to be able to resist that kind of pressure from the church. So far I have been asked to write my 'testimony' and share it in a published form by four very seperate groups of people; three struggled with my refussal to fit into a very narrow envanglical notion of what I used to do and my lack of interest in money and the fourth I still dialogue with but have no interest in taking anything any further.

Secondly anything you do will be noted by those who knew or hopefully still want to know you- step a foot wrong, for example by joining the talk and tour christian circuit, and you will instantly loose any crediability and with it the right to share what Christ means to you with them. IF your ever going to share with spiritual seekers you need to spend a lot of time in prayer asking God what you should be doing from what you think you could be doing.

Thirdly this is not really something to run into; you need to be sure of your relationship with Christ to withstand pressure from both the church alternating between wanting to publically sell your entire life for thier own reasons or calling you everything from not really being a Christian to an elite member of some inner cabal of the illuminatti for not complying with said desire to make you a chained little pet. You will also have to face pressure from folk who do not know you running off to compalin to Kerr on WV.

Counselling requires specific training and qualifications; it is unwise to even think of counselling unless you have others who consider you to have the maturity and internal reosurces to cope. Most who set themselves up as counsellors who have unfinished business set themselves to burn bright and out very fast as they loose the plot and get caught up in their own heads and fears.

If you think any form of ministry is part of Gods calling for your life start by getting involved in the life of your church. Learn from the good example of others and learn to be a good disciple before trying to make any kind of stand. If you do not you will not be able to stand. If after that you still feel a sense of inner calling to serve talk to those with mature pastoral leadership in your church and listen to their guidence.

IF God thinks you should be in this field then doors tend to open and opportunities arise that are confirmed by mature sane christians.
If you ever feel that you must or should step back and wonder where that has come from as God does not send people out alone and unprepeared for the task God has in mind.

.

 

[triforceYOU]

Triforce,
You are aware that that checklist like all similar checklists will only tell you you are dealing with a teenager.

Anyone with any real interest in art and who is not drawing the underlying anatomical structure in their teens is not a serious artist. If its a poor drawing then suspect your dealing with a teen bright enough to opt for upset the christian youth worker.

Kids listen to music for how it makes them feel rather than any understanding of the words.

Forget the pent'. I would be worried if they know how to scribe glyphs and what they meant.

Wicca is not satanism, anyone who makes the mistake of thinking they are and claims that is so is going to rapidly dishonour anything they may have to say about Christ.

"If its a poor drawing then suspect your dealing with a teen bright enough to opt for upset the christian youth worker."

"Wicca is not satanism, anyone who makes the mistake of thinking they are and claims that is so is going to rapidly dishonour anything they may have to say about Christ."

I apologize I can't comprehend your message to our difference in English.

"Kids listen to music for how it makes them feel rather than any understanding of the words."

Valid point, I did put that into consideration. But I will testify that through my experience the motives and ideas in music from artists similar to said are promoting evil ideas.

OP, I would not let anyone like the replier to my post downplay the sin in the world. Don't let anyone downplay the sin in the world. Godbless.

 

[vespasia]

The developmental phases the vast majority of teenagers have to pass through ro become indepndent adults do include questioning assumptions of belief. This is the difference between a person having a childish faith in God and a childlike faith in God.

Those who do work with teenagers and young people need to be fairly unshockable; not because they condone sin but because they are dealing with young people whose brains are in a rapid developmental phase causing them to ask questions with all the social grace of six foot toddler. YW who are not can nd do get baited by bored young people.

We cannot say being a teenager is a sin as being human is to have a default position for sin regardless of age. [1John1]

Music genres that promote narcistic selfishness and the love of money hold a ghastly mirror up to what main stream society considers valuable; that does not equate to any occult philosophy but the good old nasty Christ warned against - the love of money.

 

[triforceYOU]

The developmental phases the vast majority of teenagers have to pass through ro become indepndent adults do include questioning assumptions of belief. This is the difference between a person having a childish faith in God and a childlike faith in God.

Those who do work with teenagers and young people need to be fairly unshockable; not because they condone sin but because they are dealing with young people whose brains are in a rapid developmental phase causing them to ask questions with all the social grace of six foot toddler. YW who are not can nd do get baited by bored young people.

We cannot say being a teenager is a sin as being human is to have a default position for sin regardless of age. [1John1]

Music genres that promote narcistic selfishness and the love of money hold a ghastly mirror up to what main stream society considers valuable; that does not equate to any occult philosophy but the good old nasty Christ warned against - the love of money.

I thank you for your thoughts, I will put them into consideration and make no mistake... I truly am thankful for your insight.

Let me bring up Luke 16:19-31 because I cannot make any argument on personal opinion. I will let the Word speak and OP and Vespasia may respond or sleep.

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[vespasia]

Well I have gained my increasingly grey hair from being both a secular and church youth worker in my lifetime although these days I tend to get bogged down by the demands of being in church leadership.
That said I still tend to end up having to deal with teens known to statutory services who can exhibit challenging behaviours.

That section of luke is often cited by liberation theologians as a reminder of the OT sabbath guidelines of sharing the good things one has been blessed with by God with those who have less. Money as an object is a latent force with the potential to do either good or harm. Money as a subjective can quickly become an idol as well as a spiritual force. Hence Christ's exhortion to be wary of being owned by money through being in debt or enthralled with the stuff.

Sadly the modern world view has given out the message that each succesive generation deserves to be better off than the preceeding. Its a little akin to pyramid selling of a dream that soon turns into a nightmare. Young people tend to have post-modern mindsets; not all for a paradigm shift is happening and both modern and postmodern minsets can be found; and know on one level the acquistion of goods is a lie that will eventually devalue life by placing a financial value upon everything but equally they continue to struggle to find an alternative model to replace the values of the preceeding generations. It is little surprise so many of them will try on the vapid trappings of celebratory to see if anything might fit.

In honesty only incarnational christian living might shatter the sparkly illusion that gathering money and goods is all that is needed for life to have value as for the prophets- perhaps Luke was thinking of Amos.

 

[Tenebrae]

Wicca is not satanism, anyone who makes the mistake of thinking they are and claims that is so is going to rapidly dishonour anything they may have to say about Christ.

Repeating for posterity, and mainly because she says it way better than I could

Incase anyone wants a translation from this little wiccan duck.

If you want to accuse me of being an evil satanist who sacrifices babies and other humans. I'm not going to be willing to listen to anything you have to say about your god.

Because if you cant take time to find out about me, why would I want to listen to you