Anti-Democrat Christian event to include Frist.

Johnboy60

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Party 'against people of faith' for blocking judicial nominees, say organizers of telecast

WASHINGTON — As the Senate heads toward a showdown over the rules governing judicial confirmations, Sen. Bill Frist, the majority leader, has agreed to join a handful of prominent Christian conservatives in a telecast portraying Democrats as ''against people of faith'' for blocking President Bush's nominees.

http://www.tennessean.com/nation-world/archives/05/03/68268101.shtml?Element_ID=68268101
 

Voegelin

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Article is from the "New York Times News Service"

The Times and Schumer wouldn't be working with the Anti-Defamation League, would they?

From yesterday's ADL press release:
Deeply troubled by reports that Senator Bill Frist will appear in a telecast organized by conservative Christian groups that portrays the filibustering of judicial nominees as "against people of faith," the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today urged Dr. Frist to reconsider his participation in the telecast, stating that: "Whatever one's views may be on this or any other issue, playing the 'religious' card is as unacceptable as playing the race card."

In a strongly worded letter to the Senate majority leader, Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National director, said he was "deeply troubled" by Dr. Frist's decision to appear in the "Justice Sunday" telecast on April 24. The program's message, "...is deeply flawed and a dangerous affront to fundamental principles of American democracy," Foxman said . . .

The point special interest group opposing the judicial nominations is Norman Lear's "People for the American Way."

Lear created PFAW for the expressed purpose of keeping tradtional Christians out of elected and appointed positions in government.

Who is playing the religion card, Mr. Foxman?

Last year, Frank Rich wrote 5 articles for the New York Times tearing the Passion of the Christ to shreds (he thought).

The ADL spent most of 2004 attacking Gibson's film.

Last week, the New York Times ran two op-eds attacking the Catholic Church. Now the Times is joining with the ADL and PFAW (no surprise really) in attempting to keep conservative Christians off the Federal bench.
 
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imind

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Last week, the New York Times ran two op-eds attacking the Catholic Church. Now the Times is joining with the ADL and PFAW (no surprise really) in attempting to keep conservative Christians off the Federal bench.
sorry, but i have to agree with keeping them off. i want a judge who will follow the law even when it contradicts the bible. as has been said before, the founding fathers didn't want a theocracy, and i thank god they didn't; religion in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing.

Deeply troubled by reports that Senator Bill Frist will appear in a telecast organized by conservative Christian groups that portrays the filibustering of judicial nominees as "against people of faith," the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today urged Dr. Frist to reconsider his participation in the telecast, stating that: "Whatever one's views may be on this or any other issue, playing the 'religious' card is as unacceptable as playing the race card."

In a strongly worded letter to the Senate majority leader, Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National director, said he was "deeply troubled" by Dr. Frist's decision to appear in the "Justice Sunday" telecast on April 24. The program's message, "...is deeply flawed and a dangerous affront to fundamental principles of American democracy," Foxman said . . .
i agree with this. people are becoming republicans simply because they're religious, karl rove must be peeing his pants in excitement over this. if only people would use their manipulative skills for good purposes.
 
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UberLutheran

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Voegelin said:
The point special interest group opposing the judicial nominations is Norman Lear's "People for the American Way."

Lear created PFAW for the expressed purpose of keeping tradtional Christians out of elected and appointed positions in government.

And no, PFAW is NOT created for the "express purpose of keeping tradtional (sic) Christians out of elected and appointed positions in government."

You can read PFAW's mission statement here.

Or, you can read part of their mission statement below:

PFAW Mission Statement said:
People For the American Way was founded in 1981 by Norman Lear, Barbara Jordan, Father Theodore Hesburgh, and Andrew Heiskell. The following Statement of Purpose was adopted by the founders and other civic, religious, and business leaders who comprised the initial Board of Directors.

In times of hardship, in times of crises, societies throughout history have experienced wrenching dislocations in their fundamental values and beliefs.... We are alarmed that some of the current voices of stridency and division may replace those of reason and unity. If these voices continue unchallenged, the results will be predictable: a rise in "demonology" and hostility, a breakdown in community and social spirit, a deterioration of free and open dialogue, and the temptation to grasp at simplistic solutions for complex problems.
People For the American Way was established to address these matters. Our purpose is to meet the challenges of discord and fragmentation with an affirmation of "the American Way." By this, we mean pluralism, individuality, freedom of thought, expression and religion, a sense of community, and tolerance and compassion for others. People For the American Way will reach out to all Americans and affirm that in our society, the individual still matters; that there is reason to believe in the future - not to despair of it - and that we must strengthen the common cords that connect us as humans and citizens.

The long term agenda of People For the American Way is broad. It includes reducing social tension and polarizations, encouraging community participation, fostering understanding among different segments of our society, and increasing the level and quality of public dialogue. As an educational institution, we shall communicate with the American people through printed materials, radio, television, public lectures and discussions.

I have yet to figure out why so many conservative Christians ASSUME that they are the only "true" Christians; and why they insist on foisting their agenda on other people, Christian or not, who don't happen to believe the way that these conservatives do.

Conservative Christians do not have a monopoly on God, on Christ, or the Scriptures. I, for one, really do not appreciate the audacity of many Christian conseratives to presume they have the right to speak for me, or to tell me that my opinion isn't "valid" because I don't believe as they do.

Yes -- I am a liberal Christian; and I am a dues-paying member of PFAW; and I'm active in precinct, local and area politics; and I do canvass and work for the Democratic Party at the local level -- and I'm an active, tithing, Bible-believing member of a church even if I don't read the Bible the same way as "Christian conservatives" and even if I'm not a Republican. Christian conservatives do not determine the "validity" of my relationship with Christ and I will not stand for them trying to assume they have that right.

I'll say another thing -- I didn't enjoy The Passion of the Christ; and quite frankly, if I were going to write and direct the movie I'd choose Luke/Acts which at least has the temerity to try to portray an actual history of the work (and Passion) of Jesus, and to assign blame where blame actually belonged (not "the Jews" but the Sanhedrin and the quisling Roman governor Pontius Pilate, who was trying to keep the Romans from invading the area)!

Too bad I didn't attend law school -- I'd be doing everything I could to secure a Federal judgeship -- and yes, I would rule against corporations and for individuals; and I'd start opening up the government so we could see what's going on behind those closed doors! :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
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Doctrine1st

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UberLutheran said:
And no, PFAW is NOT created for the "express purpose of keeping tradtional (sic) Christians out of elected and appointed positions in government."

You can read PFAW's mission statement here.
Thanks UberLutheran for clearing up that clear piece of purposeful dissinformation.
 
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Voegelin

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"People for the American Way" has published training manuesl on how to fight the "religious right". Norman Lear and his Hollywood buddies did create the group to drive faith out of the public square. Of course their mission statement doesn't say that. But look at what they do. All anti-Christian, all the time. Lear did back off the rhetoric (at least for pulic consumption) several years back. But the agenda remainds. And his group is the point working with Charles Schumer to , in an unprecedented move in American history, deny these nominees a vote.

The comment above which claims there is a threat of a "theocracy" in America if these judges get on the bench is pure PFAW. When church services were held (for over 60 years) in the House of Representatives, Supreme Court chambers and executive office builings, America didn't become a "theocracy". It isn't going to become one now.

PFAW liberals are blocking the nominations of a justice from the California Supreme Court and the Texas Supreme Court. Are those states "theocracies?"

And no, these judges don't "follow the bible", they follow the American constitution and American stare decisis.

Unlike Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Anthony Kennedy who look to and have cited foreign law (including law in Zimbabwe) to justify their rulings.

No suprise the ADL has jumped into the issue. Under Clinton, Abe Foxman worked with the FBI on "Project Megiddo"--a report which warned that Christian right wing millenarians were the biggest terrorist threat in America.The report predicted Christians would run amok when Y2K hit. They sure got that wrong, didn't they?

But the intent wasn't to predict anything anyways. It was to smear Christians.
 
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imind

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"People for the American Way" has published training manuesl on how to fight the "religious right". Norman Lear and his Hollywood buddies did create the group to drive faith out of the public square. Of course their mission statement doesn't say that. But look at what they do. All anti-Christian, all the time.
where can i view such material?
 
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notto

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The religious right does not equal all of Christianity. Speaking out against the politics of the religious right does not equate to being anti-Christian. I'm a Christian and I support a secular government and one that does not place the viewpoint of a particular group of Christians (such as the religious right) into policy when it limits the religious rights or civil rights of others.

I am not anti-Christian.
 
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2Timothy2

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notto said:
The religious right does not equal all of Christianity. Speaking out against the politics of the religious right does not equate to being anti-Christian. I'm a Christian and I support a secular government and one that does not place the viewpoint of a particular group of Christians (such as the religious right) into policy when it limits the religious rights or civil rights of others.

I am not anti-Christian.

Well, let's look at this from another viewpoint:

The religious left does not equal all of Christianity. Speaking out against the politics of the religious left does not equate to being anti-Christian. I'm a Christian and I support my government, to a point, and I support a government that does not place the viewpoint of a particular group of any people (such as the religious left) into policy when it limits the religious rights or civil rights of others. This includes pastors, students who are Christians, the unborn, etc etc etc.
We differ in opinions, but that is no cause to lump us all in the same sterotype and attack us as a group. I say, go for it Dr. Frist. Unless someone can show me why he does not enjoy freedom of speech? Or are we "conservative Christians" not to enjoy that freedom?
 
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notto

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2Timothy2 said:
Well, let's look at this from another viewpoint:
The religious left does not equal all of Christianity. Speaking out against the politics of the religious left does not equate to being anti-Christian. I'm a Christian and I support my government, to a point, and I support a government that does not place the viewpoint of a particular group of any people (such as the religious left) into policy when it limits the religious rights or civil rights of others. This includes pastors, students who are Christians, the unborn, etc etc etc.
We differ in opinions, but that is no cause to lump us all in the same sterotype and attack us as a group. I say, go for it Dr. Frist. Unless someone can show me why he does not enjoy freedom of speech? Or are we "conservative Christians" not to enjoy that freedom?

I totally agree. We are making the same point. Calling those that fight against the political left or right or the religous left or right "anti-Christian" is simply doing exactly what you are speaking out about. I was responding to the claim that the PFAW was anti-Christian. Considering that Christians make up much of their membership and they have several ministers as staff, board of directors, and leaders, how can the claim that they are anti-Christian hold? They work against the religious right (not all of Christianity) because they disagree with the religious rights moves to change public policy. Considering that there are many Christians on the left, does that make Frist anti-Christian?
 
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2Timothy2

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It depends on your definition of "Christian". If it is a social group, or a "feeling", I will agree with your posts. But if it is, as defined in Scripture, a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, and the life lived because of that relationship, then I will disagree with your posts. I see many orgs on the left as very much anti-Christian, in the second sense I just stated. If something goes directly against Scripture, it can be called nothing else. That said, there is some of this on the right as well. Let's not have our politics determine our faith. Our faith should determine our politics. For those who say this second statement is wrong, remember that our faith must, and will if it is real, will permeate all of our lives. There can be no separation within a Christian of politics and faith. The problem comes when the wrong one determines the other.

So yes, I'd say PFAW is being labeled correctly by this group in the OP, even though there may be true Christians within it's membership.
 
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notto

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2Timothy2 said:
It depends on your definition of "Christian". If it is a social group, or a "feeling", I will agree with your posts. But if it is, as defined in Scripture, a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, and the life lived because of that relationship, then I will disagree with your posts. I see many orgs on the left as very much anti-Christian, in the second sense I just stated. If something goes directly against Scripture, it can be called nothing else. That said, there is some of this on the right as well. Let's not have our politics determine our faith. Our faith should determine our politics. For those who say this second statement is wrong, remember that our faith must, and will if it is real, will permeate all of our lives. There can be no separation within a Christian of politics and faith. The problem comes when the wrong one determines the other.

So yes, I'd say PFAW is being labeled correctly by this group in the OP, even though there may be true Christians within it's membership.

Thank you for proving Ubers point so eloquently.
 
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2Timothy2

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notto said:
Thank you for proving Ubers point so eloquently.

So, we should let our politics determine our faith? Please. I can't stop standing up for the truth, as I understand it, no matter who disagrees with me. And if it's someone on the left...
 
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notto

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2Timothy2 said:
So, we should let our politics determine our faith? Please. I can't stop standing up for the truth, as I understand it, no matter who disagrees with me. And if it's someone on the left...

I don't let politics determine by faith. I don't see anybody letting politics determine their faith. There are Christians on the left that are acting on their faith by working to change policies that the right has enacted. This is not anti-Christian. It is agaist right wing religious right policy. They can't stop standing up for the truth, as they understand it, no matter who disagrees with them. And if it's someone on the right . . . that doesn't make them anti-Christian.
 
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2Timothy2

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Let's see, abortion? Euthenasia? Gay "marriage"? Not allowing Christians to pray in school, on their own? Rejecting Christians for offices or appointments just because they are Christian?

No thanks, I'll reamain where my faith takes me, not where my politics takes me.
 
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Ninja Turtles

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2Timothy2 said:
Let's see, abortion? Euthenasia? Gay "marriage"? Not allowing Christians to pray in school, on their own? Rejecting Christians for offices or appointments just because they are Christian?

No thanks, I'll reamain where my faith takes me, not where my politics takes me.
Go to school pray, no one will stop you.
 
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SemStudent08

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2Timothy2 said:
Let's see, abortion? Euthenasia? Gay "marriage"? Not allowing Christians to pray in school, on their own? Rejecting Christians for offices or appointments just because they are Christian?

No thanks, I'll reamain where my faith takes me, not where my politics takes me.

Weird then, how my faith takes me to No Death Penalty, Caring for the Poor, Equal Rights, Making sure people in Public Office understand their own biases and try to at least attempt viewing things from other perspectives, Exercising my God-given Free Will when it concerns only ME/my body (even if it means some people make choices I think are wrong), Respecting people despite their beliefs and not forcing MY beliefs upon them when they don't want to hear them (epsecially in a public atmosphere), Strengthening those who are Weak, Standing with the Oppressed, Feeding the Hungry, Sharing God's PEACE and not engaging in Imperialistic foreign policy (this is not a knock at our current administration specfically, its been a problem with US foreign policy for quite some time, in my opinion).
 
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