Another belief I struggle with within the SDA

Loveaboveall

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Maco,

Why have you told them that believing in Mrs. White is required to be a member of the SDA church? Every congregation has somewhat different baptismal vows but it is by no means a requirement that one must believe this! Even she made the statement that believing in her prophetic gift should be used as a condition of becoming a member of the SDA family!
 
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Loveaboveall

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RELATION
TO CHURCH FELLOWSHIP


BY FRANCIS M. WILCOX [F. M. WILCOX WAS EDITOR of
THE REVIEW AND HERALD AND MIGHT BE CONSIDERED A
"CHURCH STATESMAN." HE WAS ONE OFTHE FIVE MEN
APPOINTED BY ELLEN WHITE AS TRUSTEES TO CARE FOR
HER WRITINGS.]


AS WE CONSIDER THE SUBJECT OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS AND THEIR MANIFESTATION IN THE CHURCH, THE QUESTION NATURALLY ARISES, SHOULD FAITH IN THIS DOCTRINE BE MADE A TEST OF CHURCH FELLOWSHIP? {2BIO 491.1}
THOSE SEEKING MEMBERSHIP IN THE CHURCH SHOULD BE CAREFULLY INSTRUCTED IN ALL THE TRUTHS OF THE GOSPEL. THEY SHOULD KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, THAT CHRIST IS THEIR SAVIOUR AND THAT THEIR SINS HAVE BEEN WASHED AWAY IN THE BLOOD SHED ON CALVARY. THEY SHOULD BE TAUGHT THAT THE TEST OF FAITH AND LOVE IS FOUND IN OBEDIENCE TO THE DIVINE REQUIREMENTS, BUT THAT THE LAW OF GOD CAN BE EXPRESSED IN THE LIFE ONLY AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE HEART BY THE OPERATION OF THE SPIRIT IN THE NEW COVENANT RELATIONSHIP. THEY SHOULD BE INSTRUCTED IN THE EVIDENCES OF CHRIST'S SOON COMING, AND IN THE PROPHECIES POINTING OUT LAST-DAY WORLD CONDITIONS AND THE SPECIAL WORK TO BE DONE IN THE PREPARATION OF A PEOPLE TO STAND IN THE DAY OF THE LORD. {2BIO 491.2}

CANDIDATES FOR CHURCH MEMBERSHIP SHOULD BE TAUGHT TO REALIZE THAT THEY ARE NOT THEIR OWN, BUT CHRIST'S, AND THEREFORE THEY SHOULD HONOR HIM IN THEIR BODIES, HIS TEMPLES, BY WEARING PROPER ATTIRE, AND PROVIDING SUCH FOOD AND DRINK AS MAKE FOR STRENGTH AND NOT FOR DRUNKENNESS; AND THAT THEIR LIVES AND PROPERTY SHOULD BE PLACED UPON THE ALTAR OF SACRIFICIAL SERVICE FOR OTHERS AS THE SPIRIT SHALL INDICATE. THEY SHOULD BE INSTRUCTED IN CHURCH ORGANIZATION AND POLITY, IN THE HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT OF THIS MOVEMENT, IN THE DOCTRINE OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS, AND ESPECIALLY THE GIFT OF THE SPIRITOF PROPHECY, WHICH HEAVEN HAS USED SO LARGELY IN FOSTERING THE WORK


492

OF THIS MOVEMENT. PARTICULARLY SHOULD THEY BE TAUGHT THAT THESE GIFTS ANSWER TO THE WORD OF PROPHECY IN THEIR MANIFESTATION IN THE REMNANT CHURCH. {2BIO 491.3}

INASMUCH AS THE LABORS OF MRS. E. G. WHITE HAVE ENTERED SO LARGELY INTO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SECOND ADVENT MOVEMENT, CANDIDATES FOR CHURCH MEMBERSHIP SHOULD BE MADE ACQUAINTED WITH THE DIVINE MINISTRY TO WHICH SHE WAS CALLED, AND THE INFLUENCE OF HER LABORS AND WRITINGS THROUGH THE YEARS. OPPORTUNITY SHOULD BE AFFORDED THEM TO READ HER PUBLISHED BOOKS. WHEN THIS INSTRUCTION HAS BEEN GIVEN CANDIDATES, BUT LITTLE QUESTION EVER WILL BE RAISED AS TO FAITH IN THE DOCTRINE OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS BEING MADE A TEST OF CHURCH FELLOWSHIP. {2BIO 492.1}

IF, AS THE RESULT OF THIS INVESTIGATION, THE ONE CONTEMPLATING CHURCH MEMBERSHIP ARRIVES AT SETTLED CONVICTIONS IN OPPOSITION TO THIS DOCTRINE, HE NATURALLY WILL NOT WISH TO UNITE HIS INTERESTS WITH A CHURCH THAT HOLDS IT AS A PART OF ITS RELIGIOUS FAITH. IN ANY EVENT HE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO WAIT UNTIL HE HAS HAD TIME AND OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE MATURE STUDY OF THE QUESTION. {2BIO 492.2}

IF, ON THE OTHER HAND, WHILE IN FULL SYMPATHY WITH HIS ADVENTIST BRETHREN REGARDING THEIR FAITH AND OBJECTIVES AND THEIR CHURCH POLITY AND ORGANIZATION, HE STILL FEELS DOUBTS OVER THE DOCTRINE OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS AND THEIR EXERCISE IN THE CHURCH, BUT HAS NO OPPOSITION TO THE FULLEST AND FREEST EXERCISE OF FAITH IN THESE GIFTS ON THE PART OF HIS BRETHREN, AND TO THE FREE USE OF THE INSTRUCTION WHICH HAS COME TO THE CHURCH FROM THE GIFT OF PROPHECY, HE NEED NOT NECESSARILY BE EXCLUDED FROM CHURCH MEMBERSHIP. {2BIO 492.3

ELDER J. N. ANDREWS WRITES:

WE THEREFORE DO NOT TEST THE WORLD IN ANY MANNER BY THESE GIFTS. NOR DO WE, IN OUR INTERCOURSE WITH OTHER RELIGIOUS BODIES WHO ARE STRIVING TO WALK IN THE FEAR OF GOD, IN ANY WAY MAKE THESE A TEST OF CHRISTIAN CHARACTER. UPON NONE OF THESE PERSONS DO WE URGE THESE MANIFESTATIONS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD, NOR TEST THEM BY THEIR TEACHING.


note that they are speaking of church membership and not baptism. To believe in the SOP is not a "salvation" issue that one must hold to be saved, it is only in the belief in Jesus as your savior.

Doctrines or Church Membership Do Not Take Place of Conversion.--All, high or low, if they are unconverted, are on one common platform. Men may turn from one doctrine to another. This is being done, and will be done. Papists may change from Catholicism to Protestantism; yet they may know nothing of the meaning of the words, "A new heart also will I give you." Accepting new theories, and uniting with a church, do not bring new life to anyone, even though the church with which he unites may be established on the true foundation. Connection with a church does not take the place of conversion.
291
To subscribe the name to a church creed is not of the least value to anyone if the heart is not truly changed. . . . {Ev 290.2}
We must have more than an intellectual belief in the truth. Many of the Jews were convinced that Jesus was the Son of God, but they were too proud and ambitious to surrender. They decided to resist the truth, and they maintained their opposition. They did not receive into the heart the truth as it is in Jesus. When truth is held as truth only by the conscience, when the heart is not stimulated and made receptive, only the mind is affected. But when the truth is received as truth by the heart, it has passed through the conscience, and has captivated the soul with its pure principles. It is placed in the heart by the Holy Spirit, who reveals its beauty to the mind, that its transforming power may be seen in the character.--Review and Herald, Feb. 14, 1899. {Ev 291.1}
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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People are baptized into Christ and His body. The SDA church does not even come into the picture when referring to baptism. Once the person is baptized he/she can be offered the opportunity to join the SDA church but it's not automatic through baptism.

The reason why I brought this up was because I do a prison Bible study where I had a few guys that wanted to be baptized but didn't want to be a member of the SDA. One of the elders said no one would baptize them. I think if you're in a position where someone wants to be baptized into Christ and you refuse because they don't want to join your church I don't think God will be too happy.
There are Adventist pastors who will baptize people who are not going to join the SDA church. You might need to search one out for your ministry. You are right that there is no Biblical call as to who can baptize someone else. I think any believer can do it but in your situation in a prison ministry it is probably best to use an officially recognized pastor to do the baptizing.
 
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annie1speed

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Maco,

Why have you told them that believing in Mrs. White is required to be a member of the SDA church? Every congregation has somewhat different baptismal vows but it is by no means a requirement that one must believe this! Even she made the statement that believing in her prophetic gift should be used as a condition of becoming a member of the SDA family!
Loveaboveall,

Did you mean to say should, or should not?

Annie
 
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maco

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Loveaboveall,

Did you mean to say should, or should not?

Annie

Hi Annie,

Its the fact that the SDA has Ellen White as its Prophet, not that you have to believe in her.

I struggle with receiving her as a prophet but I was told I did't need to believe in her to become a member of the SDA. That was a relief because the SDA has a lot of truth in it. So I was baptized about a year ago only to learn that it was a play of words. You don't have to believe in her to become a member but you will have to as time goes on. Their feelings are that someone would not be able to read all her writing before they got baptized but they expect you to read them sometime after your baptism and believe.

John
 
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Loveaboveall

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Annie,

Thankyou for pointing out my error in spelling!:thumbsup:

Maco,

What you must understand is not that you have to believe in Mrs. White as a prophet. As and adventist you should understand that all of our doctrines are biblically based, not White based. If you do not believe this than why did you join the SDA church? I am not in any way asking you to leave just asking a question. If you do in fact believe that all of our doctrines are biblically based then why do you have a problem with SDA's who believe in Mrs. White as a prophet when she points us to the bible?

I have the sneaking suspicion however that you are under the impression that several of our doctrines are not biblical, i.e. Temperance. Try as Doc has urged you to do and post in the main forum there you will find many more people who can discuss this with you!

Have you read any of Mrs. White's books? I am asking honestly. If you have not I would urge you to, maybe start with Steps to Christ or Desire of Ages.
 
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GlorifyHim

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It should be noted that there is only ONE way to become a Seventh day Adventist ....

It is by receiving at least 50% of the popular vote of those who happen to be in attendance on a particular sabbath morning. It simply does not matter that an SDA Pastor has baptized you. He does not have the power to grant you membership. Neither does the baptism according to SDA rules. It is kind of like a Club. You could call it Club Adventist.

In the end ... it does not matter WHO baptized you. What matters is that you receive 50% of the vote.
 
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JonMiller

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I recently questioned the teaching on baptism into the SDA.

I believe that when one is baptized that person is baptized into the body of Christ, not the SDA church.

I believe that a person should be baptized into Christ and then offered to become a member of the SDA if the choose to do so. I ran into some friction with viewing my thoughts. They said all the people who were baptized in the NT were joining the local church but when I quoted from Acts 8:37-39 how Philip baptized the eunuch and then was taken off by the HS. The eunuch wasn't signed up for membership to any local church he just went away rejoicing as a member of Christ's church.

Acts 8:37-39 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may.'' And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'' So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Of course they didn't see it my way.

I struggle with this...:scratch:

What are your thoughts?

Many blessings,
John

This practice of the SDA church is flat out wrong and comes from the time when many thought that we were the only remnant church.

JM
 
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GlorifyHim

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Do only preachers baptize people in the Adventist faith? Or can any believer baptize people?

Biblically speaking ... anyone can baptize. SDA speaking ... it is "usually" done by a Pastor. This is done so that the Pastor can sit in judgment of the person's good works. For instance .... I have personally witnessed a Pastor deny baptism to someone who had a smoking or drinking problem. And the drinking problem can just be drinking tea or coffee. Ellen White stated that drinking coffee is a "sin". So ... this has long been an SDA tradition. And the Pastors like to look for sin in those who would want to come to Christ.

The Bible says to come to Christ as you are. But the SDA church says to come AFTER you have victory over certain sins.

Don't get me wrong. I am a faithful SDA. My spouse is an SDA Pastor. But this church does have a few bad traditions.
 
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sentipente

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Upon reflection I don't see how baptism can be a requirement in today's society. It is a holdover from ancient days. This is not the way we join groups today. I have no problems if someone wants to participate in an ancient practice but it has no relevance to their eternal destiny. Jesus saved the worlds before we were baptized.
 
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moicherie

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I suspect the reason why baptism = membership of said church (I assume other churches operate the same way?) churches are defending their territory. In the NT model the then apostolic church was the only Christian church in town. Now we have so many different Christian denominations. Do we really think a church is going to baptise someone and then expect him or her to go to another denomination down the road and lose the potential tithes and offerings er I mean lose that person? I think people should choose to be either baptisef into Chrisitianity or baptised into Adventism. But because we have a 'We are the remnant' mindset we are not going to change our modus operandi when it comes to baptism.
 
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mva1985

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No, Jesus said this.

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Joh 3:3)



Does it really make sense to have them join a church that they don't know much about? Would you make a decision to marry a woman just simply by knowing her name and date of birth?



All of the doctrines should come secondary?

But how can you make a decision to be baptized if you don't really know what you are being baptized into?

Doctrines/teachings inform you of what you ought to believe about Jesus Christ.

Without them you really can't know Him.

Fantastic reply to this question!!!
 
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mva1985

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Upon reflection I don't see how baptism can be a requirement in today's society. It is a holdover from ancient days. This is not the way we join groups today. I have no problems if someone wants to participate in an ancient practice but it has no relevance to their eternal destiny. Jesus saved the worlds before we were baptized.

My question to you would be do you partake of communion? It is just an ancient practice. Also, I would ask what was the purpose of Jesus' baptism?
 
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sentipente

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My question to you would be do you partake of communion? It is just an ancient practice. Also, I would ask what was the purpose of Jesus' baptism?
Your question assumes that I believe that it is wrong to get baptized. I clearly said that individuals have the right to reproduce any ancient ritual they choose to replicate.
 
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mva1985

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Your post does not say it is wrong to be baptized but it surely does imply that it may not be necessary. Wow! I don't see how anyone can say that baptism is not necessary.

But you did not answer my question about communion or about Jesus' baptism.
 
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