Anglicans - Protestant or Catholic?

[glo1]

Can somebody explain to me whether the Anglican church is Protestant or Catholic in its views/theology, or something altogether?

I was a little surprised to see Anglicans put in the same section with Old Catholics.
What does Old Catholic mean, compared to the Catholic Church, I mean ...

Hope you don't mind my questions. I am just trying to be clear on the differences.

Thanks

 

[JasonV]

Can somebody explain to me whether the Anglican church is Protestant or Catholic in its views/theology, or something altogether?

Anglicans are both Catholic and Protestant.

I was a little surprised to see Anglicans put in the same section with Old Catholics. What does Old Catholic mean, compared to the Catholic Church, I mean ...

You can read the sticky at the top of the forum about that, but in short, Old Catholics are those who rejected Vatican I and Papal Infallibility.

 

[Minty]

Anglicans are both Catholic and Protestant.



You can read the sticky at the top of the forum about that, but in short, Old Catholics are those who rejected Vatican I and Papal Infallibility.

Yep, both Anglicans and Old Catholics don't come under the influence of the Pope.

Here are the links that JasonV mentioned (I hope they are the right ones)

The Utrecht Union of Old Catholic Churches
An outline of Anglican Faith.

 

[No Swansong]

Jason pretty much covered it. The Anglican Church claims to be both Catholic and Protestant, how much depends upon who you ask.

The Old Catholics were given a home here due to their close ties with Anglicanism and our mutual denial of the doctrine of Papal Infallibility. They were not welcome on OBOB and they were welcomed on STR. I am glad they are here although I wish Padre Egan and Msgr. Rick would come around more often. ( I would probably miss them even if they did) I think Jason was Old Catholic at one time as well. One would also think that the PNCC could find a home here as well.

 

[later nonjuror]

Anglicans are both Catholic and Protestant

Where did that come from? No offence meant, but historically Lutherans were the protestants! Protesting against Rome. Anglicans used the term in a political way when they opposed the right of the Papacy to interfere in English politics, but in a religious setting they always used to eschew the term.

When the usurper, William of Orange took over the throne, (A Calvinist), he asked the English Church if they would use the term more often, so that the Dutch Calvinists would be more at one with us! The English Convocation, High Church men, for the most part refused, declaring the Church was historically Catholic. Interestingly, the one part of the Catholic Church to lay claim to the title was the Roman Church , when in a letter to the House of Lords, they claimed to be Protestant Dissenting Catholics.
​

 

[Catherineanne]

Anglicans are both Catholic and Protestant​

Where did that come from? No offence meant, but historically Lutherans were the protestants! Protesting against Rome. Anglicans used the term in a political way when they opposed the right of the Papacy to interfere in English politics, but in a religious setting they always used to eschew the term.​

When the usurper, William of Orange took over the throne, (A Calvinist), he asked the English Church if they would use the term more often, so that the Dutch Calvinists would be more at one with us! The English Convocation, High Church men, for the most part refused, declaring the Church was historically Catholic. Interestingly, the one part of the Catholic Church to lay claim to the title was the Roman Church , when in a letter to the House of Lords, they claimed to be Protestant Dissenting Catholics.​

The English church dates from long before Luther, and the problems which English people have had in reconciling spritual duty with a relationship with a very earthy principality date from long before Luther. And many of these problems were of concern to good English Catholics (but not Romans) long before, during and after the reformation.

The Anglican church is an apostolic church, predating the Augustinian mission which brought Roman authority here. It is certainly Catholic, in the sense of recognising and forming part of the Universal church, but it is also Protestant, insofar as what was protested were the abuses of the Roman Catholic church and its clergy in medieval times. Of course, this is a cloudy area, because most modern day Romans would also find certain aspects of medieval Catholicism unacceptable, but I think it is fairly well understood and accepted that the Anglican communion is both protestant and Catholic.

So, when you ask, where did that come from, I would say, from about 2000 years of history.

 

[glo1]

Thanks for all your replies. They have been a real eye-opener for me.

How then, theologically speaking, does the Anglican Church define itself?

Did it not originally start at the whim of a king who refused to bow under the authority of the Pope, because he would not grant him the divorce he desired? Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature ... where they??

 

[No Swansong]

Thanks for all your replies. They have been a real eye-opener for me.

How then, theologically speaking, does the Anglican Church define itself?

Did it not originally start at the whim of a king who refused to bow under the authority of the Pope, because he would not grant him the divorce he desired? Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature ... where they??

It can be said that Henry VIII's desire for a divorce or dissolution may have been a catalyst but it should not be assumed that the Church was not headed in that direction anyway. The English Church was not planted by the Roman it has been documented to exist as early as the 3rd century. Recently some arguments have been made that it was probably planted by the Africans.

Eventually they placed themselves under the authority of the Pope (some argue that they never actually did even this) but they did not originate as a mission of the Roman Church.

As for how it defines itself, that is a great question that would require pages of explanation to even come close to an accurate answer. In essence the Anglican Church is proud of its diversity. One guiding principle of the Anglican Church is that they are the "via media" or the middle way. Anglicans try, unsuccessfully at times, to not lean too far one way or another. They certainly consider themselves Catholic and orthodox, they consider themselves an expression of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church yet they do not insist that they are the only expression.

 

[No Swansong]

Hi Catherineanne!

 

[JasonV]

Thanks for all your replies. They have been a real eye-opener for me.

Glad we could help.

How then, theologically speaking, does the Anglican Church define itself?

Depends on who you ask. Perhaps the only unified statement you'll get is that our theology is based on the Book of Common Prayer. Our worship is our theology, everything else is subject to the opinion of he or she who gives it.

Did it not originally start at the whim of a king who refused to bow under the authority of the Pope, because he would not grant him the divorce he desired? Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature ... where they??

Look at it this way, the same could be said of Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church.

I believe that in spite of Henry VIII, God worked His will in England via a less than perfect monarch to bring about much needed reform within the Catholic Church within England. I believe the Holy Spirit continues to work in the Anglican communion in ways that many find difficult, but I guess that's why we all eventually die, so that we cannot continue to hinder the progress of the Great Work.

 

[pmcleanj]

To reiterate:

"Did it not originally start at the whim of a king"...
No. As Catherineanne wrote already, the Anglican church is an apostolic church, predating the Augustinian mission which brought Roman authority here. It predates Henry VIII and did not start with him: that it did is an oft-repeated canard.

"Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature"
Neither Henry, nor the Anglican church, ever "split" from the Catholic Church. As JasonV wrote in the first response, Anglicans ARE Catholic, as well as being Protestant. What they are NOT, as MintyAngel wrote, is under the authority of the Pope. The Pope does not define the Catholic Church.

 

[Colabomb]

I think its important we define some key words here. We throw them around as knowledgable anglicans, but honestly to most of Christianity Catholic means pope and Protestant means baptist.

We need to do soem explaining i think, but... i readily admit im not the best to do it.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Yep, both Anglicans and Old Catholics don't come under the influence of the Pope.

That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.

 

[glo1]

To reiterate:

"Did it not originally start at the whim of a king"...
No. As Catherineanne wrote already, the Anglican church is an apostolic church, predating the Augustinian mission which brought Roman authority here. It predates Henry VIII and did not start with him: that it did is an oft-repeated canard.

"Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature"
Neither Henry, nor the Anglican church, ever "split" from the Catholic Church. As JasonV wrote in the first response, Anglicans ARE Catholic, as well as being Protestant. What they are NOT, as MintyAngel wrote, is under the authority of the Pope. The Pope does not define the Catholic Church.

Thank you.
I can see that I ned to read up on church history ... does anybody have any useful (and not too heavy) reading suggestions?

We need to do soem explaining i think, but... i readily admit im not the best to do it.

That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.

I look forwards to reading more explanations from you all.
I am eager to learn!

 

[JasonV]

I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.

Two big differences as far as I'm concerned. First, Anglicans and Old Catholics maintain Apostolic Succession. This is required to perform valid sacraments. Secondly, Anglicans and Old Catholics are Altar centered Churches, as opposed to Pulpit centered Churches. Our focus is the Eucharist, not the sermon.

Now, this is just my opinion, but it's the main reason why I'm here, and not there.

 

[Albion]

Thanks for all your replies. They have been a real eye-opener for me.

How then, theologically speaking, does the Anglican Church define itself?

The Anglican churches define themselves as Protestant but also as retaining aspects of the historic Catholic faith which other Protestants have rejected. That is why it is common to say that we are both Protestant and Catholic. More specifically, we embraced the main principles of the Protestant Reformation--the primacy of Scripture, Salvation by Faith through Grace, and Christ as our only Mediator and Advocate (all of which were rejections of the Medieval Catholic positions). But the church did not reject the episcopal system or Apostolic Succession, the historic liturgy, the Real Presence, or the sacraments as historically administered.

Did it not originally start at the whim of a king who refused to bow under the authority of the Pope, because he would not grant him the divorce he desired? Henry's reasons to split from the Catholic Church were hardly of a spiritual nature ... where they??

No it did not start under Henry who, BTW, was an opponent of the Reformation. The Church was 1500 years old the time of Henry and merely re-asserted an earlier independence from Rome because of the impasse between Henry and Rome on the matter of his marriage.

 

[Albion]

Two big differences as far as I'm concerned. First, Anglicans and Old Catholics maintain Apostolic Succession. This is required to perform valid sacraments. Secondly, Anglicans and Old Catholics are Altar centered Churches, as opposed to Pulpit centered Churches. Our focus is the Eucharist, not the sermon.

Now, this is just my opinion, but it's the main reason why I'm here, and not there.

Well, the main problem is that the question was based upon an incorrect assumption, i.e. that Anglicans and Old Catholics are Protestants ("I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants")

While it may be said that Anglicans are Protestant, Old Catholics are not and don't claim to be Protestant. The reason we are here together is because, as previously stated, the OCs had nowhere else to go on CF and also there is always the connection between us of a mutual agreement on intercommunion going back 3/4 of a century. It did not, however, mean that we believe alike on everything.

 

[JasonV]

While it may be said that Anglicans are Protestant, Old Catholics are not and don't claim to be Protestant. The reason we are here together is because, as previously stated, the OCs had nowhere else to go on CF and also there is always the connection between us of a mutual agreement on intercommunion going back 3/4 of a century. It did not, however, mean that we believe alike on everything.

I believe you are mistaken. Old Catholics are protestants in the sense of protesting the position of the Bishop of Rome. I consider Anglicans in the same sense.

 

[No Swansong]

That's also true for every Protestant denomination. I'm curious to know if Anglicans and Old Catholics see a difference between themselves and other Protestants.

Please don't forget my friend it also applies to the Orthodox many of whom regard the Roman Catholic Church as the first "protestant" Church. They recognize the Bishop of Rome as the first among Equals but certainly not in the manner defined by Unam Sanctum.

 

[No Swansong]

Thank you.
I can see that I ned to read up on church history ... does anybody have any useful (and not too heavy) reading suggestions?




I look forwards to reading more explanations from you all.
I am eager to learn!

As you will find Anglicans hold a lot of different views, probably because we refuse to strongly define a lot of things such as the Real Presence. We accept that Christ is truly present but we do not define how He is present. Some see this as both a weakness and a strength. At least that is how I see it.

As for reading Church History. If you are interested specifically in Anglican Church history I recommend Neil's "Anglicanism".

For general Chruch history try this.