AND JESUS SAID TO THE WOMAN , GO AND SIN NO MORE IN JOHN 8:10 !!

[Soyeong]

You seem to be objecting to what I said earlier, but I don't see anything here that specifically disagrees with what I wrote. If you are objecting, please be specific as to what statement you are objecting to. Do you object to the idea that salvation is the free gift of God? By free gift, I'm saying it requires NO WORK from us to obtain it. I never said that there is no obedience to God that results from the free gift, but to be accepted by God requires faith only. Do you agree or disagree?

I agee that salvation is a free gift, which means that it does not require any works in order to earn it as the result, however, works can be done for any number of purposes other than in order to earn salvation as the result, so that fact that salvation is a free gift does not mean that it does not require works. For example, there can be works that are required to take possession of a gift and works that are part of the content of what the gift is.

For instance, someone could put a DVD out on the curb for free, which would require someone to do the work of going to the curb in order to take possession of it and the work of watching it in order to experience the movie. Someone could give the gift of the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, which would someone to do the work of going to the dealership in order to take possession of it and the work of driving it in order to have that experience. In both cases, the fact that they require work does not detract from the fact that it was given for free.

The gift of our salvation is from sin and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so the experience of being an obeyer of it is intrinsically part of what the gift of of being saved from not being an obeyer of it is and it is not the case that obeying it is the result of having first been saved. In Titus 2:11-13, it doesn't say that we will do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather it describes the content of God's gift of salvation as being trained by grace to do those works, so again it is part of what the gift of salvation is. When someone is being an obeyer of the Mosaic Law, then the significance is not that it is part of something that they are required to have done first in order to result in their salvation or that it is the result of having first been saved, but rather the significance is that they are expressing faith and it is by that faith we are being saved from not being an obeyer of the Mosaic Law.

 

[Dan Perez]

Are you advocating that Christians must do all the law of Moses, or else they won't be saved?

Try looking up these 3 words ?

#1 meaning of Eternal // AION

#2 meaning of EVERLASTING // AIDIOS

#3 meaning AGE // AION

And see what you see ??

dan p

 

[Diamond7]

In verse 11 No man , Lord , neither do I condemn thee , go and SIN NO MORE !

He told her to sin no more because sin has it's consequences and He wanted to spare her.

 

[Dan Perez]

He told her to sin no more because sin has it's consequences and He wanted to spare her.

I say that any Jew under the Law of Moses had the protection of what is called ATONEMENTT !
dan p

 

[Diamond7]

I say that any Jew under the Law of Moses had the protection of what is called ATONEMENTT !

Paul makes this clear in Romans when He quotes David in Psalms. We can be good under the law and we are the ones to benefit from that. We are good for our sake. Then we can be righteous.

Psalm 25:9 He guides the humble in what is right and teaches them his way.

 

[Dan Perez]

Paul makes this clear in Romans when He quotes David in Psalms. We can be good under the law and we are the ones to benefit from that. We are good for our sake. Then we can be righteous.

Psalm 25:9 He guides the humble in what is right and teaches them his way.

And we are to keep the Law , is that what you mean , since you said that " we can be good under the Law ??

dan p

 

[Diamond7]

And we are to keep the Law , is that what you mean , since you said that " we can be good under the Law ??

Depends on what you mean by: "keep the law". David said: Psalm 119:97 Oh, how I love Your law! All day long it is my meditation. 98Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, for they are always with me. 99 I have more insight than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation."

Of course we have to ask what is the law of God. But more important I want to know why David loves the law? A good place to begin is at the beginning and this psalm covers ever letter in the Alphabet. We read: " 1Blesseda are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the Law of the LORD. 2Blessed are those who keep His testimonies and seek Him with all their heart.

The key word here seems to be "blessed". We are blessed if we keep the law and walk blameless before God. We follow the law to live blameless before God for our own sake so that we receive the benefit.

Let me give you an example because there are a lot of dietary laws. "Fast food intake more than three times a week is associated with greater odds of atopic disorders such as asthma, eczema or rhinitis, while asthma severity is almost 40% higher in teenagers and more than 25% in younger children."

Clearly we benefit if we follow the law and the commandments of God. If our objective is not to please God but to have good health.

 

[Diamond7]

works can be done for any number of purposes other than in order to earn salvation

My older self keeps telling my younger self to quit being so self destructive and take better care of yourself. But my younger self does not seem to want to listen to me.

 

[Soyeong]

My older self keeps telling my younger self to quit being so self destructive and take better care of yourself. But my younger self does not seem to want to listen to me.

How does that relate to what I said?

 

[Dan Perez]

Depends on what you mean by: "keep the law". David said: Psalm 119:97 Oh, how I love Your law! All day long it is my meditation. 98Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, for they are always with me. 99 I have more insight than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation."

Of course we have to ask what is the law of God. But more important I want to know why David loves the law? A good place to begin is at the beginning and this psalm covers ever letter in the Alphabet. We read: " 1Blesseda are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the Law of the LORD. 2Blessed are those who keep His testimonies and seek Him with all their heart.

The key word here seems to be "blessed". We are blessed if we keep the law and walk blameless before God. We follow the law to live blameless before God for our own sake so that we receive the benefit.

Let me give you an example because there are a lot of dietary laws. "Fast food intake more than three times a week is associated with greater odds of atopic disorders such as asthma, eczema or rhinitis, while asthma severity is almost 40% higher in teenagers and more than 25% in younger children."

Clearly we benefit if we follow the law and the commandments of God. If our objective is not to please God but to have good health.

Reading Heb 7:18 Paul says the Law , there was and ANNULLING of the former commandment ( means the whols Law ) because of its WEAKNESS and Unprofitableness ,

Plus in Rom 7:6 sys that we were RELEASED from the LAW .

And read Rom 13:9 !!

dan p

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Reading Heb 7:18 Paul says the Law , there was and ANNULLING of the former commandment ( means the whols Law ) because of its WEAKNESS and Unprofitableness ,

Plus in Rom 7:6 sys that we were RELEASED from the LAW .

And read Rom 13:9 !!

dan p

do you mean the law of Moses or yo you refer to the 10 commanements?

 

[Dan Perez]

do you mean the law of Moses or yo you refer to the 10 commanements?

I mean all the 613 Laws .

There were 365 laws

And 248 that were Laws to keep Israel clean and all the Laws were a BACK-BRAKER to keep !

DAN

 

[Soyeong]

I mean all the 613 Laws .

There were 365 laws

And 248 that were Laws to keep Israel clean and all the Laws were a BACK-BRAKER to keep !

DAN

In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Is that the word of faith that you proclaim or the word of faith that you deny? In accordance with those verses, do you think that according to those verses that we choose life or death? Furthermore, in 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome.

Do you agree or disagree that these verses accurately describe the Mosaic Law?:

Psalms 119:7-11
The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.

 

[Dan Perez]

In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Is that the word of faith that you proclaim or the word of faith that you deny? In accordance with those verses, do you think that according to those verses that we choose life or death? Furthermore, in 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome.

Do you agree or disagree that these verses accurately describe the Mosaic Law?:

Psalms 119:7-11
The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.

I have to stand , nthat Israel could NOT keep the Law of Moses , PERIOD !!

Acts 15:10 treads , Now therefore , why do you TEST God to put a YOKE upon the neck of the disciples , which NEITHER our fathers NOR we have been ABLE to keep .

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

I have to stand , nthat Israel could NOT keep the Law of Moses , PERIOD !!

Acts 15:10 treads , Now therefore , why do you TEST God to put a YOKE upon the neck of the disciples , which NEITHER our fathers NOR we have been ABLE to keep .

dan p

So then you deny the truth of Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Romans 10:5-8, 1 John 5:3, and Psalms 19:7-11?

Do you also deny the truth of the verses that speak about people who kept the Law of Moses, such as Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6?

In Acts 15:11, it makes it clear that what they referred to as a heavy burden that no one could bear was not the Mosaic Law, but a means of salvation that was an alternative to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was propose by men from Judea in Acts 15:1.

 

[Dan Perez]

So then you deny the truth of Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Romans 10:5-8, 1 John 5:3, and Psalms 19:7-11?

Do you also deny the truth of the verses that speak about people who kept the Law of Moses, such as Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6?

In Acts 15:11, it makes it clear that what they referred to as a heavy burden that no one could bear was not the Mosaic Law, but a means of salvation that was an alternative to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was propose by men from Judea in Acts 15:1.

I stand with what Paul wrote in 2 Tim 2:15 to RIGHTLY divide the WORD of Truth .

Acts 15:10 Peter says , Now therefore , why do you TEST God to put a YOKE upon the neck of the disciples , which NEITHER OUR fathers nor we have been ABLE TO BEAR !!

So is Peter wrong ?

Who's context is right ?

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

I stand with what Paul wrote in 2 Tim 2:15 to RIGHTLY divide thw ORD of Truth .

Acts 15:10 Peter says , Now therefore , why do you TEST God to put a YOKE upon the neck of the disciples , which NEITHER OUR fathers nor we have been ABLE TO BEAR !!

So is Peter wrong ?

Who's context is right ?

dan p

No, your preference is to wrongly divide the word of truth by using a scissors to cut away the parts you don't believe. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so do you agree or disagree that we should follow the truth in accordance with that verse? Do you agree or disagree that we should follow the example of the one who embodied that truth in accordance with John 14:6-7?

Peter was not wrong, but rather you are wrong about what he was referring to as being a yoke that no one could bear as the context clearly shows.

 

[Dan Perez]

No, your preference is to wrongly divide the word of truth by using a scissors to cut away the parts you don't believe. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so do you agree or disagree that we should follow the truth in accordance with that verse? Do you agree or disagree that we should follow the example of the one who embodied that truth in accordance with John 14:6-7?

Peter was not wrong, but rather you are wrong about what he was referring to as being a yoke that no one could bear as the context clearly shows.

But Acts 15:24 reads , Seeing that we have heard that certain ones FROM US having gone out have TROUBLED you with words UNSETTLING your souls , saying ( you have ) to be CIRCUMCISED and to keep the Law , o whom we did NOT // OU is a Greek DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Ever , Ever , CHARGE >

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

But Acts 15:24 reads , Seeing that we have heard that certain ones FROM US having gone out have TROUBLED you with words UNSETTLING your souls , saying ( you have ) to be CIRCUMCISED and to keep the Law , o whom we did NOT // OU is a Greek DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Ever , Ever , CHARGE >

dan p

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so the issue that they were discussing what not whether or not Gentiles should be followers of Christ, but about the means of salvation. The position that we should follow what Christ taught is not the position that we should follow what Christ taught in order to earn our salvation as the result, so the Jerusalem Council can speak against an incorrect means of salvation without speaking against following Christ.

 

[Dan Perez]

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so the issue that they were discussing what not whether or not Gentiles should be followers of Christ, but about the means of salvation. The position that we should follow what Christ taught is not the position that we should follow what Christ taught in order to earn our salvation as the result, so the Jerusalem Council can speak against an incorrect means of salvation without speaking against following Christ.

Just to clarify any answer , are you saying that we have to keep the MOSAIC LAW ??

dan p