Americans: Do you have a Caesar?

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

IRS tax time approaches.

Matthew 22
17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius,
20 and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
21 "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

Do Americans have a Caesar?
The Caesars were emperors, were they not? Power was not "of the people, by the people, and for the people."
America has (should have) a Constitutional Republic. We in America have a representative form of government. Is it safe to say there is no Caesar in America?

Is it wrong to refuse to pay Constitutional taxes?
Is it wrong to refuse to pay unConstitutional taxes?

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Tax time approaches.

Matthew 22
17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius,
20 and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" 21 "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

Do Americans have a Caesar?
The Caesars were emperors, were they not? Power was not "of the people, by the people, and for the people."
America has (should have) a Constitutional Republic. We in America have a representative form of government. Is it safe to say there is no Caesar in America?

Is it wrong to refuse to pay Constitutional taxes?
Is it wrong to refuse to pay unConstitutional taxes?

I believe Caesar simply represented 'government' and yes, we should pay taxes (but should we really be paying THIS much? Now that's another thread for another time).

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

... we should pay taxes ...

I agree. We Americans should pay Constitutional taxes, but what about unConstitutional taxes?

 

[Merlin]

If you want to avoid imprisonment, then pay the taxes

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I agree. We Americans should pay Constitutional taxes, but what about unConstitutional taxes?

One man's unConsititutional tax is another man's Constitutional tax. If our government says we have to pay, then we have to pay. However I see nothing wrong with doing what we can to fight those taxes.

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

Congress has never imposed an "individual income tax" that it can collect from Citizens of the Union. There is no such thing in the law. If there is, show me the law from Congress!

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Congress has never imposed an "individual income tax" that it can collect from Citizens of the Union. There is no such thing in the law. If there is, show me the law from Congress!

Hey, don't take it up with us. Take it up with your congressman Fact of the matter remains, if you don't pay your government, you're in serious trouble. Jesus never said what Caesar was doing was 'right' or 'correct'. Personally I can't stand our system and would love to see a national sales tax replace our system or even a flat tax but in the meantime, I pay my taxes.

 

[tulc]

Isn't this what the 16th amendment was about?

U.S. Constitution: Sixteenth Amendment

Sixteenth Amendment - Income Tax Amendment: [SIZE=+1]The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.[/SIZE]

tulc(you mean like that?)

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Actually the Sixteenth Amendment remains quite controversial among those determined not to pay taxes. I find it all rather ambiguous so I'll let the original poster tackle this one.

 

[Soon Rev 22:11-12]

From someone http://myspot.neteze.com/~netizen/861evidence/mail/One_Step_at_a_Time.html, who has studied more than I have on the 16th:

The 16th Amendment says that Congress shall have the power to tax incomes, from whatever source derived, without having to apportion the tax ("apportionment" being a complicated procedure which the Constitution says must be applied to all "direct" taxes). By itself, the amendment LOOKS like perhaps it meant they can tax any income, and that's where many IRS employees, tax professionals, and apparently some congressmen, got that idea. But without getting very deep into Constitutional theory, it is not difficult to prove that "first impressions" (such as in the case of the 16th Amendment) can be DEAD WRONG.




Did the 16th Amendment give Congress some new taxing power?

"The provisions of the sixteenth amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited [Congress’ original power to tax incomes] from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation, to which it inherently belonged, and being placed in the category of direct taxation subject to apportionment."​

So says Treasury Decision 2303, an official Executive Branch statement, which was in turn quoting from the Supreme Court saying the same thing, in the case of Stanton v. Baltic Mining (240 U.S. 103 (1916)). Okay, so the 16th Amendment gave them no NEW taxing power. Maybe they could ALREADY tax any income they wanted. Right? The Supreme Court again:

"The Sixteenth Amendment... has no real bearing and may be put out of view. As pointed out in recent decisions, it does not extend the taxing power to new or excepted subjects." [William E. Peck & Co. v. Lowe, 247 U.S. 165 (1918)]



​

 

[GraceInHim]

I dunno.. but I ate a Caesar Salad.. does that count.. food named after someone?

 

[tulc]

a ministry I know has an account set up for paying taxes that they called "the Caesar account". Does that count?
tulc(death and taxes: the only two things you can't avoid in this life...well unless you don't mind spending time in prison, then it's only death you can't avoid)

 

[Forest]

Soon Rev, you are quoting cases from 1916 and 1918.

The Supreme Court has upheld the governments ability to tax people, in many many court cases.

Willfully evading taxes is a felony with up to five years in prison. Many of those people in prison also believed the US income tax is unconstitutional.

 

[DeaconDean]

Of course I have a Caesar, it's called my employer. Haha.

 

[freespirit2001]

Is this another apology for missing money threads....

 

[freespirit2001]

Pssssstt...!!!! ROI---National Information Assurance Strategy

(sorry.. )

 

[freespirit2001]

"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

Saul Bellows