American Missions, or the Lack there of

[☦Marius☦]

My Father recently offered me a position in a Protestant drug rehabilitation center in WV as an intern. While I know I can't really take a role in a place whose beliefs I don't share, it got me looking into similar work. I was suprised to find only one or two similar places in the country while the Protestants have many.

My question is this:
What is it specifically that prevents us from having good solid ministry in this country? Or at least ministry that can be found. Where my Father works they have a full time staff all dedicated to overseeing a rehabilitation shelter where addicts come in and live under surveillance until they are clean, and are given required spiritual instruction along the way. Why do we not have places like this, and why are we not better with our charity?

Even the RCC although in decline had a point where they had a monastic run hospital in every city, a charity on the corner and a homeless shelter. What prevents the Orthodox from filling this void? Between the Russians and Greeks we ought to have enough money to at least start up more such places. I just feel that for anyone, especially a layperson, who wants to do full time ministries and cannot afford seminary, there simply is no place. I strongly disagree with the idea that because we value "actions rather than words" we are somehow free from mission work as I've had many Orthodox try to convince me. Why not take the Catholic's example at least in this one Category?

 

[HTacianas]

My Father recently offered me a position in a Protestant drug rehabilitation center in WV as an intern. While I know I can't really take a role in a place whose beliefs I don't share, it got me looking into similar work. I was suprised to find only one or two similar places in the country while the Protestants have many.

My question is this:
What is it specifically that prevents us from having good solid ministry in this country? Or at least ministry that can be found. Where my Father works they have a full time staff all dedicated to overseeing a rehabilitation shelter where addicts come in and live under surveillance until they are clean, and are given required spiritual instruction along the way. Why do we not have places like this, and why are we not better with our charity?

Even the RCC although in decline had a point where they had a monastic run hospital in every city, a charity on the corner and a homeless shelter. What prevents the Orthodox from filling this void? Between the Russians and Greeks we ought to have enough money to at least start up more such places. I just feel that for anyone, especially a layperson, who wants to do full time ministries and cannot afford seminary, there simply is no place. I strongly disagree with the idea that because we value "actions rather than words" we are somehow free from mission work as I've had many Orthodox try to convince me. Why not take the Catholic's example at least in this one Category?

It's mostly a matter of numbers. There aren't a lot of Orthodox in the USA by comparison.

 

[☦Marius☦]

The What Where, When, and Why of Orthodox Missions

 

[☦Marius☦]

It's mostly a matter of numbers. There aren't a lot of Orthodox in the USA by comparison.

So why do we not have more support? If the Moscow Patriarchate can afford to construct 100 cathedrals in Moscow, then why can't it afford to help its foreign ministries? Same goes for the Greeks. I see much talk of foreign missions (mostly to already Orthodox countries ), but little to nothing in America. I feel the Rocor should especially be putting in efforts.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

My question is this:
What is it specifically that prevents us from having good solid ministry in this country?

Or at least ministry that can be found.

Good questions.

After reading the questions, I looked and saw what section this is in, so I'll just watch, thanks.

 

[ArmyMatt]

it's the overlapping jurisdictions. the more we see ourselves as American Orthodox, and not tied to our jurisdiction, the easier it will be to minister.

 

[☦Marius☦]

it's the overlapping jurisdictions. the more we see ourselves as American Orthodox, and not tied to our jurisdiction, the easier it will be to minister.

Yet not much has changed in the way of that in the last 100 years. From what I've heard the OCA isn't doing that well. At what point will the American church be saved from international politics. How much longer will the fate of overseas countries determine ours? We can't even unify jurisdictional traditions.

 

[dzheremi]

Have you looked for anything at a diocesan level? I know that my old diocese, for instance, runs various programs to help people both here in the USA and in Egypt through the H.O.P.E. Social Services program, which does everything from pay for marriages, metal detectors (for security in churches in Egypt... ), disaster relief for Hurricane Dorian here in the USA and surrounding islands, etc.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yet not much has changed in the way of that in the last 100 years. From what I've heard the OCA isn't doing that well. At what point will the American church be saved from international politics. How much longer will the fate of overseas countries determine ours? We can't even unify jurisdictional traditions.

the OCA is doing fine. and these corrections are all in God's time.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Have you looked for anything at a diocesan level? I know that my old diocese, for instance, runs various programs to help people both here in the USA and in Egypt through the H.O.P.E. Social Services program, which does everything from pay for marriages, metal detectors (for security in churches in Egypt... ), disaster relief for Hurricane Dorian here in the USA and surrounding islands, etc.

There are always volunteer positions sure. But for actual work nothing unless you are ordained or have taken some kind of business school. Considering taking my dad up on his offer as perhaps a non teaching position. Like a security guy or cook.

Unfortunately most of what is around me is GOA, while my spiritual father is in ROCOR.

 

[Not David]

You can always try to create one.

 

[E.C.]

I apologize ahead of time for my cynicism, but this is an area where the Orthodox in America do consistently fall short. Myself among them.

My Father recently offered me a position in a Protestant drug rehabilitation center in WV as an intern. While I know I can't really take a role in a place whose beliefs I don't share, it got me looking into similar work. I was suprised to find only one or two similar places in the country while the Protestants have many.

My question is this:
What is it specifically that prevents us from having good solid ministry in this country? Or at least ministry that can be found. Where my Father works they have a full time staff all dedicated to overseeing a rehabilitation shelter where addicts come in and live under surveillance until they are clean, and are given required spiritual instruction along the way. Why do we not have places like this, and why are we not better with our charity?

Even the RCC although in decline had a point where they had a monastic run hospital in every city, a charity on the corner and a homeless shelter. What prevents the Orthodox from filling this void? Between the Russians and Greeks we ought to have enough money to at least start up more such places. I just feel that for anyone, especially a layperson, who wants to do full time ministries and cannot afford seminary, there simply is no place. I strongly disagree with the idea that because we value "actions rather than words" we are somehow free from mission work as I've had many Orthodox try to convince me. Why not take the Catholic's example at least in this one Category?

Because for some strange reason the Orthodox in this country are resistant to a single autocephalous Church which results in a lack of resources and coordination. Ethnic jurisdictions are too busy sinking their money into grandiose churches that don't have people and the OCA is still recovering from the financial scandal of the 2000s and therefore too poor.
It is mostly up to the parish level itself to do social justice related work and, quite frankly, there aren't enough Christians of any Church who genuinely care about the poor. For us Orthodox, we have too many parishes that prioritize spending tens of thousands of dollars on iconography over helping the poor.

The other part of it is numbers. There's about 1.5 million Orthodox Christians in the USA period; and that's the most liberal estimate. Of that 1.5 million, how many regularly go to church? How many attend every service their church has? How many only attend on Christmas and Pascha? How many fast? How many, of that 1.5 million, are sincere enough in their Faith to undertake these ministries? Not enough.

So why do we not have more support? If the Moscow Patriarchate can afford to construct 100 cathedrals in Moscow, then why can't it afford to help its foreign ministries? Same goes for the Greeks. I see much talk of foreign missions (mostly to already Orthodox countries ), but little to nothing in America. I feel the Rocor should especially be putting in efforts.

The Greeks won't give us a darn thing because the EP is too busy being propped up by American money, plain and simple. Just look at the farce that is St Nicholas at Ground Zero. $40 million suddenly disappears from embezzlement and if it went anywhere other than Constantinople than I have a Hawaiian polar bear you can buy.
As for Moscow, it's simple. The United States is seen as an incredibly rich country on the world stage (really, we are) and so why should Russia, which has a weaker economy than us, spend their own hard earned GDP to fix our problems when they have plenty of their own and we're not exactly seen in a positive light there? That being said, there are times when the Russian government does contribute some funds here, but it is usually when an old historical parish needs a renovation. Or if you have a mausoleum with a White Russian colonel buried in it that's crumbling.

 

[TheLostCoin]

Even the RCC although in decline had a point where they had a monastic run hospital in every city, a charity on the corner and a homeless shelter. What prevents the Orthodox from filling this void? Between the Russians and Greeks we ought to have enough money to at least start up more such places. I just feel that for anyone, especially a layperson, who wants to do full time ministries and cannot afford seminary, there simply is no place. I strongly disagree with the idea that because we value "actions rather than words" we are somehow free from mission work as I've had many Orthodox try to convince me. Why not take the Catholic's example at least in this one Category?

I think many of your criticisms are valid, but keep in mind

1. There are way more Catholics in the world than Orthodox. There are approximately 1.3 billion Catholics, only about 250 - 300 million Orthodox.
2. The Catholics have been in North America since Columbus, and in the United States since George Washington's presidency (per George Washington's letter to French Catholics moving there). The Orthodox have only been in North America (and not even the United States) since the 18th century in Alaska.
3. Orthodox monasticism hasn't developed in the direction of new monastic orders created specifically for the purposes of charity, for better or for worse.
4. There are multiple jurisdictions, which means that each jurisdiction has its own allocated resources which are overall much more split up and smaller.
5. There is less incentive for the creation of charitable organizations, especially in lieu of generic-Christian charities or secular charities that cover so many different issues and are able to do so at a massive level.
For example, what would be the point of starting up an Orthodox Habitat for Humanity? You just end up making competition for Habitat for Humanity and make the goals of both less efficient and organized.

 

[TheLostCoin]

The Greeks won't give us a darn thing because the EP is too busy being propped up by American money, plain and simple. Just look at the farce that is St Nicholas at Ground Zero. $40 million suddenly disappears from embezzlement and if it went anywhere other than Constantinople than I have a Hawaiian polar bear you can buy.

If I were to put on my tinfoil hat and scratch my head, and had to adopt a conspiracy theory, I find it very likely that the financial corruption of GOARCH and other EP dioceses (like the Carpatho Russian diocese) is probably being used as leverage by the U.S. government to force this whole Ukranian-schism fiasco.

"Do this for us, or we take you down with prosecution coming."

 

[dzheremi]

2. The Catholics have been in North America since Columbus, and in the United States since George Washington's presidency (per George Washington's letter to French Catholics moving there). The Orthodox have only been in North America (and not even the United States) since the 18th century in Alaska.

The first Russian Orthodox mission in Alaska was started in 1794, which was contemporaneous with the presidency of George Washington (1789-1797).

 

[buzuxi02]

No reason to start institutions from scratch. They morph into secular institutions anyhow. Just look at the catholic universities and hospitals. Red Cross was started by a devout protestant, today there is a red crescent for the middle east and is purely a secular charity .

 

[TheLostCoin]

The first Russian Orthodox mission in Alaska was started in 1794, which was contemporaneous with the presidency of George Washington (1789-1797).

I'm aware. But Catholicism in "North America generally" started with Columbus, centuries before, and entered into the "United States specifically" with the founding of the country; Russia just started "North America generally" during the Presidency of Washington, and didn't even hit the United States until much later. By the time Russian Orthodoxy was just getting started in North America, Catholicism was already pretty well established and was entering into the independent but mostly Protestant English colonies.

 

[dzheremi]

Yeah. I guess that's what happens when the people who begin the European colonization are themselves Catholics. It's no different in that way than noting that Christianity elsewhere in the world was primarily a Protestant phenomenon since in certain places the European Protestant powers got there before the European Catholics could, e.g., in German-colonized Namibia or some place like that. I don't think that would say very many positive things about Lutheranism or whatever specific kind of Christianity came to be associated with whatever country on that account. It's just kind of a fact of history, and doesn't necessarily say much about missionary zeal or what have you.

 

[E.C.]

If I were to put on my tinfoil hat and scratch my head, and had to adopt a conspiracy theory, I find it very likely that the financial corruption of GOARCH and other EP dioceses (like the Carpatho Russian diocese) is probably being used as leverage by the U.S. government to force this whole Ukranian-schism fiasco.

"Do this for us, or we take you down with prosecution coming."

There's certainly a strong argument to be made, but who knows.

All the more reason to:
1) Relocate the EP out of Turkey. There's precedent. The Patriarch of Antioch has been in Damascus since the 14th century. The EP would be better off elsewhere.
2) Have a truly autocephalous North American Church.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There's certainly a strong argument to be made, but who knows.

All the more reason to:
1) Relocate the EP out of Turkey. There's precedent. The Patriarch of Antioch has been in Damascus since the 14th century. The EP would be better off elsewhere.
2) Have a truly autocephalous North American Church.

number 1 was Metropolitan Philip's argument.