Alabama can enforce ban on puberty blockers and hormones for transgender children, court rules

[Pommer]

Who says the current methodology is good?

We used to do lobotomies on people and asking what's wrong with that. I mean it's good right? Since when is good but not perfect a bad thing?

We used to amputate limbs when they were infected. That's was good right? What if we just left it at that. I mean it wasn't perfect but it was good. Let's just keep doing that.

Not only that but to call this treatment good it should be based on good science. It's not. So you can't really call it good.

All you offer is “look in the mirror and accept the Body that God gave you!”
That’s not good enough any more.
I’m sorry, but that’s the way that it is.

 

[KCfromNC]

And on the flip side, I wouldn't want to people to be told that medium rare chicken is safe if there were only a few small scale studies that concluded that most people said they hadn't gotten sick yet after 12 hours.

Are there any studies relevant to the subject which only took data from a 12 hour period?

I have no problem with clinicians continuing to research this (and in other countries they have, and they pumped the brakes a bit on some of it).

Hard to do with the GOP reactionaries outlawing the use of the treatments in question.

Scientists shouldn't be restricted from researching (unless there's something seriously unethical they're doing in order to test)...but on the flip side, claiming something is the gold standard of care, armed with only 16 small sample size studies (with mixed results, no control groups, and with self-identified confounding factors) is reckless in the other direction.

These posts seem really hung up on the phrase "gold standard", as if there were some sort of objective definition for that phrase. OK, we can all stop using it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Are there any studies relevant to the subject which only took data from a 12 hour period?

12 hours after eating bad food was an analogy because most people don't recognize the ill-effects of what they've eaten for 18-24 hours.


I used that analogy because with regards to follow-up intervals, many of the 16 studies mention doing 12 month and 24 month follow-ups (a few mention doing a 36 month follow-up).

Much like you're unlikely to experience the worst side effects of eating undercooked poultry after only 12 hours, you're unlikely to experience the worst side effects of taking exogenous hormones after only 12-24 months.

I laid out the side effect profile earlier in this thread. Many of those ill-effects aren't things that show up in 1-2 years, but rather 5-10 years down the road. (like long term liver damage, increased risk of cardiovascular disease)

 

[rjs330]

All you offer is “look in the mirror and accept the Body that God gave you!”
That’s not good enough any more.
I’m sorry, but that’s the way that it is.

You didn't watch the video did you. You are doing exactly what leftists love to say and claim. But you are wrong.

Watch the videos and then let's talk. Until then there is nothing more to say. Because you are making complete false and inaccurate statements.

 

[Pommer]

Let me line this out for you. Transgender kids need treatment. What treatment do you give them? Who has the answer for that? Hmm... Let see. Let's check with the research and bring in experts on the subject. Who are the experts? Transactivists who give you all this great research to show what we need to do. Who else has access to this? Patients. Patients look on line and find that the research shows they should be transitioned and will be very happy if they are. Then they are told exactly what to say in order to get the treatment they want.

What they are not told is the research is trash, they are not given the full picture. Everyone is told affirming care is the way to go. Yes affirm everyone all the time. Because that all anyone has told them. They don't know any different. Only as time has rolled on has people begun to question this. Therapists begin to question the validity. Researchers start to look at the research and it's applications and begin to see it's all been built in a pile of lies and false science. Alarm bells go off.

Those patients dont know the science is bad. They trust what they were told by the transactivists that the science was good.

But we have no now discovered they were wrong. The science was wrong. But we still have people who want to tell lies about it. And people line yourself who continually buy it. Yet others in other countries do not any longer. Why are you having such a difficult time letting go? Sweden isn't.

I’m not arguing for a “one-treatment-fits-all” approach.
HRT/surgeries are going to work for a certain amount of people; psychological Tx will work better for others.

It seems you’d like for there to be only the latter Tx and only very, very rarely the former.
And I will grant you that that is a valid position to hold.

The video seems to suggest that teens are being affirmed rather than challenged and given short-shrift with regards to co-morbidities in a psychological sense…that the “treatment” is a static thing and if you show up at the clinic then you’re “in”.

Does there need to be a better triage for kids?
Yes, but the clinics aren’t (yet) the place for this; that needs to happen before the kid gets into the system.

And I can agree that an immediate hormone/surgery Tx plan might be missing kids who are not actually trans but who latch onto this as a cure-all for other non-gender issues hoping that afterwards they’ll feel “better” and are disappointed when the Tx “fails”.

 

[rjs330]

I’m not arguing for a “one-treatment-fits-all” approach.
HRT/surgeries are going to work for a certain amount of people; psychological Tx will work better for others.

It seems you’d like for there to be only the latter Tx and only very, very rarely the former.
And I will grant you that that is a valid position to hold.

The video seems to suggest that teens are being affirmed rather than challenged and given short-shrift with regards to co-morbidities in a psychological sense…that the “treatment” is a static thing and if you show up at the clinic then you’re “in”.

Does there need to be a better triage for kids?
Yes, but the clinics aren’t (yet) the place for this; that needs to happen before the kid gets into the system.

And I can agree that an immediate hormone/surgery Tx plan might be missing kids who are not actually trans but who latch onto this as a cure-all for other non-gender issues hoping that afterwards they’ll feel “better” and are disappointed when the Tx “fails”.

Excellent, glad you watched the video. Or at least one of them. Now you understand the position. Yes I would advocate for the very very rare medical transition. Because it would only be the very very very rare circumstance it might be needed. I'm not convinced it is ever needed for kids yet. Since the research doesn't really indicate that. But as you noted it's the opposite right now. Thats why I'm not against the legislature taking action at this time. Since we cannot get the medical field to act then the legislature needs to.

If the medical field would have acted then the legislature wouldn't needed to act.

I was listen to a pediatrician who is part or the AAP and she has been advocating for years now for the AAP to act, and every time she gets shut down. And it's not just her but others as well. She has not been advocating that they stop affirmative care medicalization but that they do a systematic review of the evidence and research. Just like other countries have done. But the AAP has refused to do so. Makes you wonder why. I wonder if the AAP being funded in a large part by big pharma who produces the drugs has anything to do with it.

It sounds like they finally may be going to do the systematic review. I guess we'll see.

By the way the position of the AAP on affirmative care and medicalization was created by ONE doctor. One doctor who created it, wrote it and reviewed his own work. And the AAP accepted it. Odd.

 

[Pommer]

Excellent, glad you watched the video. Or at least one of them. Now you understand the position. Yes I would advocate for the very very rare medical transition. Because it would only be the very very very rare circumstance it might be needed. I'm not convinced it is ever needed for kids yet. Since the research doesn't really indicate that. But as you noted it's the opposite right now. Thats why I'm not against the legislature taking action at this time. Since we cannot get the medical field to act then the legislature needs to.

If the medical field would have acted then the legislature wouldn't needed to act.

I was listen to a pediatrician who is part or the AAP and she has been advocating for years now for the AAP to act, and every time she gets shut down. And it's not just her but others as well. She has not been advocating that they stop affirmative care medicalization but that they do a systematic review of the evidence and research. Just like other countries have done. But the AAP has refused to do so. Makes you wonder why. I wonder if the AAP being funded in a large part by big pharma who produces the drugs has anything to do with it.

It sounds like they finally may be going to do the systematic review. I guess we'll see.

By the way the position of the AAP on affirmative care and medicalization was created by ONE doctor. One doctor who created it, wrote it and reviewed his own work. And the AAP accepted it. Odd.

Yes, right now there’s “too many” trans patients…it is a “fad”; or gay kids thinking that they’re “really straight, just trans?”

 

[rjs330]

Yes, right now there’s “too many” trans patients…it is a “fad”; or gay kids thinking that they’re “really straight, just trans?”

I think it's mostly rogd kids and gay kids. Maybe a few fad thrown in. Then there are the minority which are truly dysphoric.

 

[Pommer]

I think it's mostly rogd kids and gay kids. Maybe a few fad thrown in. Then there are the minority which are truly dysphoric.

0.6% yes.

 

[rjs330]

0.6% yes.

Maybe. It could be even fewer. I don't think based upon how things have been operating that we even know that for sure. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it wasn't even fewer kids.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Ah yes more "trust me I know what's best for you".

Very convincing coming from those that wish harsh government crackdowns on personal liberty.

Careful. I am getting flashbacks from the 2020 covid lockdowns.

 

[stevevw]

Yes they do

Precocious puberty - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

Your level of confidence seems to be inversely correlated to your knowledge on the subject

Precocious puberty has nothing to do with being trans. Its quite the opposite. Its designed to bring on puberty (natural development) not stop it.