Ain't Easy Being A Female Pastor In The South

[Isaac112086]

hmm... the oppion that women are second class, as implyed by saying they can't talk, is bigoted, and the root cause of bigotry is ignorence, it doesn't matter that you can quote verse, or pervert the bible or any other holy book to your means, it is still ignerent bigotry.


Edited by Lanakila to remove flame of moderators, and rule 7 violation.

 

[SUNSTONE]

hmm... the oppion that women are second class, as implyed by saying they can't talk, is bigoted, and the root cause of bigotry is ignorence, it doesn't matter that you can quote verse, or pervert the bible or any other holy book to your means, it is still ignerent bigotry.


Edited by Lanakila to remove flame of moderators, and rule 7 violation.

Who has the opinion that women are "second class"?

You are "implying" out of "ignorance" what that verse means. Does this mean you are a bigot?

Your actually the one that is "perverting the bible for your means", by taking a verse out of context, just so you can point your finger at people with your bigoted beliefs, towards people who believe that the bible is the word of God.

 

[Wiccan_Laura]

Meh. I DONT believe the bible is the word of "god", which is probably why i have no tolerance for the idea that a woman can't be whatever she wants to be, and be treated with the same rights given to a man.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Meh. I DONT believe the bible is the word of "god", which is probably why i have no tolerance for the idea that a woman can't be whatever she wants to be, and be treated with the same rights given to a man.

The do have the same rights, where does it say that they don't?

 

[Isaac112086]

clay stated agreence with Grizzlys quote from the bible

grizzlys quote said very clearly that women do not have the same rights

clay says that women are not less then men, but says that they have they less rights.

it doesn't matter if the bible, or any other holy book says that you use to support your views, your views are still your views and if your views alone are to be viewed as that of a bigot, then they shall be viewed behind the shrowd of religion as that of a bigot.

I'm not distorting your book, I barely know what it says, I'll assume the better of it and say that the hate and, ignerence and bigotry perpetuated in it's name is all sick perversion.

 

[SUNSTONE]

What did this guy just say?

 

[Isaac112086]

I'm sure its hard for her, considering the strong biblical admonishment against allowing women to speak in church.

1 Corinthians 14: 34-35

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. "

It must be difficult to be a pastor and remain silent in church.....

 

[Isaac112086]

who says anything about men being better than women? does it say that in the Bible? please, show me the specific verses where it says that men are better than women and women are less humans than men. please, i'd love to see these verses.

also, i'd love to see the verses where the bible condones the woman being a preacher, the head of a church, a bishop. please, i really want to see these verses.

 

[Isaac112086]

all of this is in this thread, so why don't you just look at it.

 

[Isaac112086]

nevermind my last three posts, i misread what SUNSTONE wrote...

 

[WayneH]

Meh. I DONT believe the bible is the word of "god", which is probably why i have no tolerance for the idea that a woman can't be whatever she wants to be, and be treated with the same rights given to a man.

If you do not believe that the Word of God is true orbeleive in any parts of it then you have no say in what the Church does or doesn't do.. Churchs that will not allow women to Preach are following Biblical Principles they believe in.. They do not and should not be swayed by secular thinking.... rights you are talking about are secular rights not Biblical rights of the Church.... The Church is and should always be in the control of God fearing - God Believing people... They should not be swayed by anyone that confesses they do not believe in the BIBLE... also- when the Bibkle states that women should be silent does not imply that women are second class or inferior to men... The Bible never states that a woman is not equal to a man outside Church offices.. Even then it doesn't say a Man is Superior to a woman - just that Men are to be the Church leaders.. Regardless of the reason why God wants it this way - He assigned Men to lead the Church - unfortunately there have been quite a few that have really screwed that leadership up - but God still calls Men to lead the Church

 

[SUNSTONE]

If you do not believe that the Word of God is true orbeleive in any parts of it then you have no say in what the Church does or doesn't do.. Churchs that will not allow women to Preach are following Biblical Principles they believe in.. They do not and should not be swayed by secular thinking.... rights you are talking about are secular rights not Biblical rights of the Church.... The Church is and should always be in the control of God fearing - God Believing people... They should not be swayed by anyone that confesses they do not believe in the BIBLE... also- when the Bibkle states that women should be silent does not imply that women are second class or inferior to men... The Bible never states that a woman is not equal to a man outside Church offices.. Even then it doesn't say a Man is Superior to a woman - just that Men are to be the Church leaders.. Regardless of the reason why God wants it this way - He assigned Men to lead the Church - unfortunately there have been quite a few that have really screwed that leadership up - but God still calls Men to lead the Church

I agree with the one point, that people who don't believe, shouldn't have a say on what the church should or shouldn't do.

I disagree with you on your interpretation of that one verse. The only place I can remember that talks about the man being the leader, is in marraige.
This verse does not mention wether women should lead or not. And if you take that one verse, by itself, then that would mean that women can't even say hello in church. In other words they are to be seen and not heard, type attitude.

But if you take it in context, you have to take the verses that follow it. Which talk about them learning at home. Are you to learn at church, during a service?
For women to not say anything at all in church, including saying hi, or talking to friends, does that make sense?
If you say no, then there must be more to that scripture than just taking it straight up as it is. Because taking it literally means that women can not even say hello in church.

 

[WayneH]

I agree with the one point, that people who don't believe, shouldn't have a say on what the church should or shouldn't do.

I disagree with you on your interpretation of that one verse. The only place I can remember that talks about the man being the leader, is in marraige.
This verse does not mention wether women should lead or not. And if you take that one verse, by itself, then that would mean that women can't even say hello in church. In other words they are to be seen and not heard, type attitude.

But if you take it in context, you have to take the verses that follow it. Which talk about them learning at home. Are you to learn at church, during a service?
For women to not say anything at all in church, including saying hi, or talking to friends, does that make sense?
If you say no, then there must be more to that scripture than just taking it straight up as it is. Because taking it literally means that women can not even say hello in church.

Hey Sunstone... We could have a nice debate except one thing wrong - I NEVER used any verse to back anything up... I never mentioned any particular verse that states men taking leadership roles in the Church which by the Way there are several verses about MEN leading the Church.... as for the verse your mentioning about women being silent - it doesn't mean that they can NOT talk at all while in Church - it means during the Church SERVICE....... which in My thoughts should apply to everyone with exceptions of a hearty AMEN.... During a sevice I really think Men as well as women should be silent unless the Preacher is TOTALLY off Base on Scripture... and the point I was trying to make mainly was that ANYONE not having beliefs of the CHurch have no say what the Church can or can not do..... it pretty much same as voters - You have no right to critizise Gov officials if you do not vote... if you vote and the other person wins - then you can say things... Another point to ME at least is the Church itself.. We have a business meeting every second Wed. of the Month - Approx. 60 members out of 350 decide to come to the meetings.. We vote on business of the Church - the 300 people that do not show up should not complain about decisions made at the meeting since they do not bother to show up... Its no different then the parent who whines and crys about their childs rec. programs but refuseto volunteer to help improve it... they come to games only and complain when they could help change from within the confines of the Council..........

HAve a Wonderful Day..........

 

[SUNSTONE]

Hey Sunstone... We could have a nice debate except one thing wrong - I NEVER used any verse to back anything up... I never mentioned any particular verse that states men taking leadership roles in the Church which by the Way there are several verses about MEN leading the Church.... as for the verse your mentioning about women being silent - it doesn't mean that they can NOT talk at all while in Church - it means during the Church SERVICE....... which in My thoughts should apply to everyone with exceptions of a hearty AMEN.... During a sevice I really think Men as well as women should be silent unless the Preacher is TOTALLY off Base on Scripture... and the point I was trying to make mainly was that ANYONE not having beliefs of the CHurch have no say what the Church can or can not do..... it pretty much same as voters - You have no right to critizise Gov officials if you do not vote... if you vote and the other person wins - then you can say things... Another point to ME at least is the Church itself.. We have a business meeting every second Wed. of the Month - Approx. 60 members out of 350 decide to come to the meetings.. We vote on business of the Church - the 300 people that do not show up should not complain about decisions made at the meeting since they do not bother to show up... Its no different then the parent who whines and crys about their childs rec. programs but refuseto volunteer to help improve it... they come to games only and complain when they could help change from within the confines of the Council..........

HAve a Wonderful Day..........

Well we can agree on the point about people shouldn't complain about something, if they didn't help. So we can set that off to the side.

Here is the discussion.
I assume that you believe that men are to be the leaders of a church?
That women are not allowed to be pastors of a church?
If you want to discuss it, then pull your verse out, or verses.

Can women be pastures? Preach? Teach? These are all gifts of the spirit.

 

[Wiccan_Laura]

Sure, I don't believe, and sure, I have no say how churches should be run, but I am a human being, and I do believe in equality for all races and genders. Because the 2 overlapped, doesnt mean I'm taboo from having an opinion on it.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Opinions are cool, but I think he was talking about power. Like you wouldn't have a vote.

 

[Gabriel]

I would like to point out that the "Presbyterian" denom this woman is a pastor in is not very Presbyterian at all. I would assume that she belongs to the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America (PCUSA) as NO OTHER branch of the Presbyterian church would allow anything so un-biblical. PCUSA also ordains homosexuals. If you do a search for "The Sisters of Sophia" you will also find that their General Assembly condones the worship of "Sophia-The godess of Wisdom".

Tough to be a female pastor in the south? I have noticed that when a Christian continues in sin life becomes difficult.

 

[SUNSTONE]

So you think it is a sin for a women to be a pasture, a preacher, and a teacher?

 

[Gabriel]

Sinful to be a pastor or preacher? Yes. Teacher? Not necessarily. It depends on the subject matter and/or the pupil or pupils.

I'll get deeper and provide scripture later. I'm working and don't have time right now.

I would like to point out that this is not an equality issue. Men are of no more value to God than are women. It has to do with roles. If everyone wants to be the chief, you are left without indians.

For example: 10 people invest equally in a business. You now have 10 equal partners. All 10 partners will work for the company in order to make it grow. Can they all be the boss? They are equal, but in order to be successful, they must take on different (yet equal) roles. Someone has to hire and fire people, someone has to answer phones, someone has to sell, someone has to pack and ship, someone has to do the books. So a church or a marriage is. Equal partners, equal in value, with different roles. God laid out some of these roles for us in His word. Who are we to disagree because the culture has changed? God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Are we to expect Him to conform to us and our culture or are we to conform to Him and His will?

 

[Brimshack]

It is easy enough to say that women are equal in some abstract sense, or to dismiss equality as a value pre-empted by your God, but in reality you are advocating a view that women are less than men in this life. The notion that requiring women to be subordinate to men is simply a question of different roles is pure double-speak. If this is what Christianity holds for women, then Christianity is an attack on women, and God merely a convenient excuse for inherently abusive politics.