After the Thousand Years (An Interpretation of Rev. 20:7-10)

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jwmealy

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John says in Rev. 20.1-3 that the reason for Satan's imprisonment and chaining in prison is that he should not deceive the nations any longer,
until the thousand years are completed.
Did you ever notice that he also says that the rest of the dead did not come to life
until the thousand years are completed,
and that
when the thousand years are completed,
Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive (v. 7, see vv. 1-3) the nations. . .?

Also, Isaiah says that on the Day of the LORD, God will punish the hosts of heaven in the heavens and the kings of earth on the earth (see the last verses of Rev. 19), and they will be gathered together like prisoners in a dungeon,
"and after many days they will be visited" (see Isa. 24.21-22).
And Ezekiel says, speaking of the armies gathered against the land that has been restored from the sword, and has been living peacefully without walls in the Messianic kingdom,
"after many days you [Gog and your armies] will be visited" (Ezek. 38.8, cf. 38.8-14)
. The Hebrew words behind Isaiah's and Ezekiel's statements are strikingly similar, virtually identical. In Ezekiel, the crisis pictured in the 38th chapter forms a kind of eschatological "last judgment" on the international hordes of the enemies of God's people, and it has as its setting an unending and well-established age of peace and "resurrection" that is inaugurated by the coming of God's Messiah (see Ezek. 36.22–37.28). The outcome is that the intruders on God's holy and beautiful and peaceful land begin to fight one another (just as in many OT divine rescue stories), and are consumed by fire from heaven (Ezek. 38.21-23).

In Isaiah, the imprisonment of the heavenly and earthly authorities in the underworld gives way to the reign of God in glory before his elders (Isa. 24.23; cf. Rev. 20.4 and compare Rev. 4.4), and a wonderful description of the messianic banquet (Isa. 25.1-8). Isaiah also sees a great crisis in this context of "every tear being wiped away" and the taking away of the great veil between humankind and God (Isa. 25.7; see the parallel in Rev. 21:3-4). Just like Ezekiel, Isaiah foresees the coming of the wicked into the setting of the peaceful age of God's full presence and protection:
If favor is shown to the wicked,
he does not learn righteousness.
In the land of uprightness he acts crookedly
and does not see the majesty of the LORD.
O LORD, your hand is lifted up, yet they don't see it.
They will see your zeal for your people and be totally ashamed;
The fire that is for your adversaries will consume them.](Isa. 26.10-11; cf. Heb. 10.27, which quotes this passage as a prophecy of the last judgment of the stubbornly unrepentant).
If we look further on in Isa. 26 we find, surprise of surprises, references (literal or figurative makes no difference to the point here) to resurrection for the righteous and denial of resurrection for the unrighteous (see Isa. 26.14-19), a battle set in the context of the resurrection of the righteous and divine protection of them from a final confrontation with the wicked (Isa. 26.20-21), and, of all things, the final slaying of the great serpent, Leviathan (see Isa. 24.20-21 and 27.1 and compare Rev. 20.1-3, 7-10).

My conclusion from a concordant reading of these passages from Isaiah and Ezekiel with Rev. 19–21 (keeping in mind Isa. 26.10-11 and its relationship to Heb. 10.27) is that the last judgment of the unrepentant is what happens to them when they are belatedly granted the gift of resurrection. It is not a courtroom-style examination of their deeds in mortal life, which already has happened at Christ's coming (Rev. 20.4, cf. e.g. Dan. 7, Mt. 25 and 2 Cor. 5.10). At that judgment they were judged unworthy of resurrection and/or participation in the kingdom (cf. Lk. 20:35). Yet, according to the limitless grace of God, after missing but the first divine "day" (= 1000 years) of the new creation, the unrepentant are given amnesty and are invited to come "through the gates into the city" (Rev. 22:14). The great judgment is that although "they are shown favor" (Isa. 26.10; 27:5; and, very importantly, Isa. 57:14-21), they don't learn righteousness but make attack all over again (a dog returns to its vomit, and a pig returns to wallow in the mire, says Peter, 2 Pet. 2.22), and this time they are irrevocably judged according to their works (Rev. 20.13-15 // Rev. 20.7-10). The grace of God extends to the very, very last second, the very, very last invitation:
I am not angry--
[i.e. angry at those who approach God's lovingly protected vineyard, the new Israel: Isa. 27.2, 6]
But if they come against me with thorns and briars,
[i.e. if they attempt to attack the vineyard and sabotage it by planting fruitless and harmful plants in it]
I will be against them and set them on fire--
So, let them come to me for refuge instead!
Let them make peace with me,
Let them make peace with me.
(Isa. 27.2-5)

I believe that John penned Rev. 20:1-15 with the understanding that the last judgment of the unrepentant comes when they effectively choose fire when peace and reconciliation are freely extended to them one last time along with the gift of resurrection. I admit that this "second chance refused" model for the last judgment does not stand entirely without problems and paradoxes. However: (1) as a model for the significance of the "millennium" in Revelation it is by far the most consistent with John's whole style and message throughout Revelation (for this, see my book, After the Thousand Years: Resurrection and Judgment in Revelation 20 [JSNTSup, 70; Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press, 1992]), (2) it stands in harmony with the loving and just and merciful character of God as revealed in Jesus Christ, and (3) it listens deeply and concordantly to all the biblical statements about the final disposition of the unrepentant.
 
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jwmealy

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For a much shorter (128 pages), and far more accessible presentation of the view developed in my scholarly monograph After the Thousand Years, see New Creation Millennialism (msword) or New Creation Millennialism (Adobe pdf). This short book contains a powerful critique and refutation of both conventional premillennialism and amillennialism, followed by a straightforward exegesis of Rev. 19:5--21:8.
 
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jwmealy

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Why do you think it says, they -as if this people was already
in the vision doing something prior to verse Rev. 20:4?

they sat

"And I saw thrones and they sat..."

There were already resurrected. John is just letting us know
what groups of people he sees show up.

The pronoun "they" does not appear in Rev. 20:4 Greek. The simplest and most natural way of understanding the verse is that John sees a new vision (after seeing the chaining and imprisonment of the devil in v. 3). The first thing he sees is thrones. The second thing he sees is that figures take their seats on them (making ἐκάθισαν an ingressive aorist). John then either sees something else that he does not describe at that point that gives him a clue, or he is simply given to understand, that those who have been seated have been given (God's authority to perform) judgment as in Daniel 7:9:

ἐθεώρουν ἕως ὅτου θρόνοι ἐτέθησαν καὶ παλαιὸς ἡμερῶν ἐκάθητο

"I kept watching as [lit. "until"] thrones were set up, and the Ancient of Days took his seat."

The judgment that ends this age, which Jesus calls "the coming of the Son of Man" (Mat 16:28; 24:27, 30, 37, 39; 26:64; Mar 13:26; 14:62; Luk 21:27), is clearly understood by him to be the judgment that Daniel sees in Daniel 7:9ff. John also, it seems clear, believes that he is describing in Rev. 20:4-6 the same judgment event that Daniel saw.

In that case, those who sit on the thrones sit not in the first instance to rule, but rather to participate along with God in the judgment of the living and the dead (cf. Rev. 11:15-18). Their divinely sanctioned decision (Rev. 20:4b-5) comprises a positive and a negative verdict. The positive verdict, which concerns those who have been faithful to God and Jesus despite the beast's deadly persecution, is that these will rise (or live on) to reign with Christ for the thousand years just mentioned, during which the devil is to be imprisoned. The negative verdict, which concerns "the rest of the dead," is that they will not live until the thousand years are completed.

It would be entirely natural to assume that the 24 elders are those who take their seats on the judgment thrones in Rev. 20:4, because we have already seen them sitting on thrones in Rev. 4:4, 9-11, and we have seen them intimately associated with God's role as judge of the living and the dead in Rev. 11:16-18.
 
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jwmealy

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Do you see the great tumult of Zechariah 14:13 as being
the first Gog war? The people slay each other- as in neighbor
against neighbor, and the survivors go on to be the ones
that must keep the feast of tabernacles and come up year to
year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts.

Yes. I also think that the Masoretic Text of Zech. 14:17-18 (the Hebrew manuscript tradition of the Pharisees and their heirs) has suffered corruption, in that an explanatory gloss from the Targums (the loose Aramaic paraphrases of the Hebrew Bible) has been added to the Hebrew text, changing the meaning of the passage. The LXX (the Bible of the Greek speaking Jews of the time of Jesus and the apostles) has this:

καὶ ἔσται ὅσοι ἐὰν μὴ ἀναβῶσιν ἐκ πασῶν τῶν φυλῶν τῆς γῆς εἰς Ιερουσαλημ τοῦ προσκυνῆσαι τῷ βασιλεῖ κυρίῳ παντοκράτορι καὶ οὗτοι ἐκείνοις προστεθήσονται

ἐὰν δὲ φυλὴ Αἰγύπτου μὴ ἀναβῇ μηδὲ ἔλθῃ ἐκεῖ καὶ ἐπὶ τούτοις ἔσται ἡ πτῶσις ἣν πατάξει κύριος πάντα τὰ ἔθνη ὅσα ἐὰν μὴ ἀναβῇ τοῦ ἑορτάσαι τὴν ἑορτὴν τῆς σκηνοπηγίας

And this will be [what happens] to whichever of all the tribes of the earth that do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the LORD, the Almighty King: these will be added to the others [i.e. those who were completely wiped out by a plague from the LORD, Zech. 14:12-15]. And if the tribe of Egypt does not go up and come there [i.e. to Jerusalem, to worship], upon these too will come the plague with which the LORD struck all the nations that didn't come up to keep the feast of Tabernacles.

There is no room in John's picture of the age to come for unwilling or reluctant worshipers of God (see Rev. 6:12-17; 11:18; 19:14-21). Nor is there any room in Zechariah's picture--if you follow the LXX version. The scribes of the Masoretic tradition, in my opinion, couldn't understand the vision of Zech. 14 because they automatically assumed that there would be nations uninvolved in the battle and therefore spared at the great judgment that ends this age. Thus they substituted the words "there will be no rain on them" in place of the words "these will be added to the others" in Zech. 14:17. But what Zechariah is saying is that every nation (and, by implication, every person) that does not go up willingly to worship the LORD will be subject to the great plague that he has just described in vv. 13-15. Even in Zech. 14 there is no reliable basis upon which to posit a "mixed millennium."

John agrees with Jesus, who says,

The people of this age marry and get married. But those who’ve been considered worthy to take part in that age, and in the resurrection from among the dead—they don’t marry, and they don’t get married. And they can’t die anymore. Because they’re like angels, and they’re God’s children. They belong to [lit. being children of] the resurrection. (Lk. 20:34-36)

Everyone who takes part in "that age" (the age to come) will have been found worthy of taking part in it at the coming judgment of the living and the dead. All participants in the age to come belong to the resurrection--even if they miraculously get transformed into a "resurrected" state while still living (1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:15-18).
 
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Do you see the great tumult of Zechariah 14:13 as being
the first Gog war? The people slay each other- as in neighbor
against neighbor, and the survivors go on to be the ones
that must keep the feast of tabernacles and come up year to
year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts.

When do you think the 4th Gog Magog war happens?
 
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jwmealy

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Hi jwmealy,

I agree there are several visions within the
Book of Revelation. ...
Each of these times [with the words "after these things"] will start a new sequence of events unfolding.

I don't agree that because John saw a vision after he saw another vision that this implies that the content of his vision belongs, in the sequence of end-times events fulfilling his visions, later than the vision he saw earlier. In general, OT prophets don't get visions of end times matters in a neat sequential order. For example, God shows Isaiah, John's favorite OT prophet, a number of visions about the [period of] troubles that lead up to the transition to the world to come, a number of visions about the final crisis (which we understand as the coming of Jesus), and a number of visions about the age to come and the judgment that follows that age.

John sees a number of visions of the coming of Jesus, e.g. 6:12-17; 7:9-17; 11:15-19; 14:14-16, 14:17-20; 16:17-21; 19:5-9 (an audition); 19:11-21; 20:4-6; 21:1-8. Given that the moment of Jesus' taking up the kingship of the world is the greatest transition in the creation since its inception, it's not surprising that it should impossible to capture all of its meaning in one vision. John is therefore given visions to see it from a number of complementary angles.
 
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jwmealy

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"...stood before God...When did they do that? Back in chapter 7 when the numbers were being heard by John.

Why would those seven angels tell the numbers? Because they are the sealing angels of Rev. 7.
I won't say your suggestion is impossible, but I am not persuaded, for a few reasons.

First, it is not narrated by John in Rev. 8:2 that seven angels came to stand, or had been standing, before God. John identifies the angels he sees as "the seven angels who stand in front of God." He is not narrating action, but identifying who the angels are. It's very likely that he is thinking of the seven archangels identified in the Book of Enoch: Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Remiel and Saraqael. Raphael, indeed, is mentioned in the Apocryphal book of Tobit, where he is described as "one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord" (Tobit 12:15).

Secondly, the angel of Rev. 7:2-3 does not come from the presence of God, but from the east, "from the rising of the sun," and he "ascends." There is no clue here at all that the angel (or any of his cohorts in the work of sealing the faithful) could have been standing in God's presence before that.

Thirdly, although it is true that the angel in Rev. 7:2-3 commands the four angels referred to in 7:1 not to do any harm to the earth, the sea, and the trees "until we have marked the servants of God...", the number of his fellows is not given.

The main thing to keep in mind in relation to the angels with the seven trumpets is that they are sent to give a warning to all of unrepentant humanity. Like the watchman on the wall who blows the trumpet when an enemy comes in sight, so the angels blow the trumpets, which function like air raid sirens. The weight of all the calamities that take place after the trumpets are blown is to say, "Wake up, dwellers on the earth! You are destroying yourselves and the earth! Repent, because God's just judgment is coming!"
 
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Vinsight spends far too much time in the Rev on the basis that it is a chrono-mechanical handbook like a NASA launch sequence manual. It is not.

The material of Mt24A is about the horrible events of the generation following the Gospel in Judea. At v 29 it includes and expects the end of the world, too, but allowances are made for delay (and that is the case, we now know). Some warnings about both events are similar.

The Rev explains and comforts those who went through those events in Judea who are now mostly Christians who left the area and are up in Asia Minor at the 7 churches. Judea was pulverized, and the Christians were told to leave upon noticing certain signals. That's the purpose of the Rev and why there is so much imagery etc and not much precision.
 
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