Abortion, is it Political?

[faithfulmark]

Here is a history of the Catholic church on abortion.

from 2nd - 4th century, abortion=murder.

from 5th - 17th century, neutral on the issue.

The belief that abortion=murder was only introduced in the 2nd century. Did Jesus teach it? Would he aprove that abortion=murder? What would cause the Catholic Church to all of a sudden bring back the belief that abortion=murder? Lets examine the political implications of being anti-abortion.

Does anti-abortionists bring in revenue?

Do you recall these maxims?

1) "If you want to know what's really happening regarding any issue on the entire planet, simply follow the money trail."

2) "People always act in a manner they believe is in their own best interest."

Abortion: Of all issues used by the fundamental Christians for manipulating the public, the abortion controversy is without doubt, the most powerful and the most lucrative. It alone has probably brought in more money and created more publicity for the fundamentalist Christians than all their other issues combined. Why? Because it strikes human emotions to the core. It combines sex, motherhood, and babies, and no one will ever find a more powerful tool for manipulating the public.

>>>It's such a powerful tool that the anti-abortion leaders are willing to deny the irrefutable evidence that tell us the entire anti-abortion program is based on an unprovable.

>>>It's such a powerful tool that they are willing to continue their absolutely essential and totally unprovable claim that a human being is his or her physical body and do so in the face or the latest scientific evidence which tells us that it's literally impossible for a human being to be his or her physical body.

>>>It's such a powerful tool that they are willing to deny religious freedom to literally billions of their fellow humans.

>>>And it's so powerful that the anti-choice leaders are even willing to defy God's words in their own Bible -- (Genesis 2:7 The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.)

Remember, it's not winning the battles that counts. It's all the money, prestige, publicity, and political power they gain during the fight. Where would the fundamentalist Christian leaders be if they weren't constantly declaring war on something controversial? To answer that question, we suggest you go to any local church and ask the local pastor how much money he can raise by preaching about the sin of divorce, or how much money he raise by preaching about family values, or about not drinking liquor or about not smoking cigarettes. These are bland, ho-hum issues that attract little attention and even less money, But on the other hand,

Controversy Sells! It sells big! It's a multi-billion dollar business.

A Christian Theocracy in America

To hear them talk, you'd think that the goal of the anti-abortion leaders was saving innocent babies' lives.

Well, guess again. If it's saving babies, why are they doing such a dismally poor job? If it's saving babies, why are they ignoring the 40,000 already born babies who starve to death every day or die from curable diseases?

They could save thousands more innocent lives if they focused on "already-born" babies. In addition to allowing all those children to die, the indirect and usually hidden Costs of the Anti-abortion War (The money used for media use) stagger the Imagination. This money could easily be used to cure and help the 40,000 already born babies.

Those spearheading the anti-abortion movement, such as Ralph Reed, have openly proclaimed their intention to dominate the Republican political structure and, in so doing, create what they call a “Christian America.” But don't take our word for it! Read it for yourself in the words of one of the movement's most adamant anti-abortionists.

"Active Faith - How Christians Are Changing the Soul of American Politics, By Ralph Reed; The Free Press; New York, NY; 1996."

In the process of creating a Christian theocracy in America, the anti-abortion stance is little more than a convenient tool.

And the “Pro-life.” label is a good marketing tool, but in reality, it's just another anti-abortion fairytale. Nothing has been proved that life begins at conception. It is all a belief, or a myth.

When you look at their open and easy to see hypocrisy, one certainly has to wonder about their private hypocrisy. Many of the adamant, female, public speakers against abortion rights have, themselves had abortions. And how about the men peddling the anti-choice position? How many of them have gotten women pregnant. How many of these women had abortions?

Here is a link for their open hypocrisy. Ignore the motives of the site. There information is clear-cut.

http://www.pro-truth.net/30-references.html#gag http://www.pro-truth.net/30-references.html#NewtGingrich http://www.choice101.com/74-what-is-life.html http://www.choice101.com/23-1-google-censorship.html http://www.pro-truth.net/30b-bible-psgs.html#Bible http://www.pro-truth.net/69-sex-and-sin.html#GodIsAHypocrite http://www.pro-truth.net/87-hypocrisy.html http://www.pro-truth.net/98-glossary.html#HiddenAgenda http://www.choice101.com/81-cs.html#PublicPrayers http://www.choice101.com/r73-gay-rights.html#SinsOfLifestyle http://www.choice101.com/17-conception-magic.html#GodBabyMurderer

 

[IronWill]

What is the purpose of this post?

 

[faithfulmark]

Think about it. Why would Catholic all of a sudden say that Abortion=Murder again?

Did God tell them to do so in the 17th century?

A firm understanding of brainwashing, and you will understand what it means to talk about controversial things.

I think we should acknowledge each persons individual decision. They still Love, and that IS all that matters.

 

[IronWill]

Think about it. Why would Catholic all of a sudden say that Abortion=Murder again?

Did God tell them to do so in the 17th century?

A firm understanding of brainwashing, and you will understand what it means to talk about controversial things.

I think we should acknowledge each persons individual decision. They still Love, and that IS all that matters.

So each person's individual decision is morally correct and should not be contradicted by other individuals?

 

[faithfulmark]

Of course, in a higher sense then you can imagine right now.

People who decide to kill, or doing something horrible. Yet God set up a system of karma (eye for an eye) that will help each individual grown in their understanding of Who they Are.

 

[IronWill]

Of course, in a higher sense then you can imagine right now.

People who decide to kill, or doing something horrible. Yet God set up a system of karma (eye for an eye) that will help each individual grown in their understanding of Who they Are.

Do you believe in any concept of sin?

 

[faithfulmark]

Translation of "sin" in the Bible. 1) to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to miss 1a2) to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty 1a3) to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit 1b) (Piel) 1b1) to bear loss 1b2) to make a sin-offering 1b3) to purify from sin 1b4) to purify from uncleanness 1c) (Hiphil) 1c1) to miss the mark 1c2) to induce to sin, cause to sin 1c3) to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way 1d2) to purify oneself from uncleanness

To "Miss the Mark." Sometimes we won't get a bullseye. But the law of Karma will help guide us (which could be thought of as Christ, or God).

 

[IronWill]

Translation of "sin" in the Bible. 1) to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to miss 1a2) to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty 1a3) to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit 1b) (Piel) 1b1) to bear loss 1b2) to make a sin-offering 1b3) to purify from sin 1b4) to purify from uncleanness 1c) (Hiphil) 1c1) to miss the mark 1c2) to induce to sin, cause to sin 1c3) to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way 1d2) to purify oneself from uncleanness

To "Miss the Mark." Sometimes we won't get a bullseye. But the law of Karma will help guide us (which could be thought of as Christ, or God).

What is your belief of Christ?

 

[faithfulmark]

He came here to show us the way to life. God gave us the road to God.

 

[IronWill]

He came here to show us the way to life. God gave us the road to God.

Could you be more clear?

 

[faithfulmark]

He died on the cross to give us life. Do I need to be anymore clear?

Lets get back to the issue. Did God tell the Catholic Church to call abortion "murder" in the 17th. century?

 

[IronWill]

He died on the cross to give us life. Do I need to be anymore clear?

Lets get back to the issue. Did God tell the Catholic Church to call abortion "murder" in the 17th. century?

Do you advocate the torture and murder of two day old infants?

 

[faithfulmark]

Of course not. Did I imply such thing?

I will not condemn them though. I forgot what passage in scripture but.. "Forgive them, for they know now what they do."

Now back to the issue.

 

[IronWill]

Of course not. Did I imply such thing?

I will not condemn them though. I forgot what passage in scripture but.. "Forgive them, for they know now what they do."

Now back to the issue.

What is the difference between killing a child still in the womb, and killing a child out of the womb?

 

[faithfulmark]

The fetus has the potential for Life.

The born is given their first breath, and the first breath is life. (Gen 2:7)

 

[IronWill]

The fetus has the potential for Life.

The born is given their first breath, and the first breath is life. (Gen 2:7)

The fetus has the potential for life? How is it not alive already? I fail to see how Gen 2:7 supports this concept.

 

[faithfulmark]

The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

When the infant first breaths, he is given the breathe of "Life." After that, he becomes a "Living" being.

 

[IronWill]

When the infant first breaths, he is given the breathe of "Life." After that, he becomes a "Living" being.

Biologically speaking, the baby is already alive, that much is not an argument by anybody who knows anything about the issue.

 

[faithfulmark]

Biologically speaking, the baby is already alive, that much is not an argument by anybody who knows anything about the issue.

That is most definatly your opinion. There are no studies to back that up (to my knowledge, maybe you could show me?). Fetus have no neural net, therefore it is impossible to be alive. Plain and simple.

 

[faithfulmark]

And since when do we have a Christian going on Biological terms rather than Biblical terms? If thats the case, lets talk about Genesis and the science errors and impossible events (maybe on another thread, I was just making a point clear).