A workable compromise on "universal" firearm background checks.

[Daniel Martinovich]

And you think your idea of what the principles and morality of the Bible are is going to cure all that?

That I know for a fact.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Truly a staggering prophecy. Written 700 years before Jesus came. That God would become a man and be born as a child. Then, as it is today, Jesus is called all these things all over the world. As time goes on by more and more people. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from now on even for ever. The influence of his government has increased in the world from the day of Pentecost. Especially since the Bible started getting into the hands of the general public 500 years ago. To the degree his invisible government has been influencing people, cultures and nations is the degree that peace brought to the world. Just like to the degree that his government's growing influence is felt. Is the degree that justice grows along with judgment about what is right and wrong.

 

[RDKirk]

OK, I see. You guns are not supposed to protect you against regular armed forces, but against screaming mobs of Liberals, who presumably don't own guns themselves.

Well, actually from liberals who have illegal guns.

Scott Adams (creator of the "Dilbert" comic strip) has an interesting take on that.

Basically, most Repubicans who own guns are not criminals and never hurt anyone with them.

Most Democrats who own guns happen to be criminals (I can't argue with that myself).

So the Democrats who don't own guns want to do away with guns while the Republicans believe Democrats who don't own guns want to take their guns from them to leave them at the mercy of the Democrats who do own guns.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2016/06/22/why-gun-control-cant-be-solved-in-the-usa/

Personally, my issue is that all the logic of gun elimination (which is what Democrats do, really, mean by "gun control") is faux-utilitarian in nature, and utilitarianism is ultimately immoral.

We already know the government is not responsible for any individual's protection. The courts have already ruled on that. Given that neither the government nor anyone else is willing to guarantee the personal safety of me or my family, it is patently immoral of them to deprive me of what I consider the best means of protection.

Rather, their faux-utilitarian argument is essentially the same as Shirley Jackson's story, "The Lottery."

 

[Speedwell]

Most Democrats who own guns happen to be criminals (I can't argue with that myself).

You can define them that way, I suppose. I've already been defined as not a real American and not a real Christian because I'm a Democrat. Being defined as a criminal because I own a gun and am a Democrat would not surprise me in the least.

 

[RDKirk]

You can define them that way, I suppose. I've already been defined as not a real American and not a real Christian because I'm a Democrat. Being defined as a criminal because I own a gun and am a Democrat would not surprise me in the least.

Well, I think it's plausible that every murder in south Chicago by someone who leans Democrat--I'll bet not a one is pro-Trump. I suspect the guy who tried to murder me in DC back in 88 leaned Democrat.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Well, I think it's plausible that every murder in south Chicago by someone who leans Democrat--I'll bet not a one is pro-Trump. I suspect the guy who tried to murder me in DC back in 88 leaned Democrat.

Harsh truths. Quite natural that as far as generally. The criminal element will band together as a political party and law abiding people will hand together in a political party. Further, that conservative Christians are mostly law abiding. Obviously there will be some crossover. But...

 

[Speedwell]

Hmmm, ever seen any of those "screaming mobs of liberals" throw fire bombs at occupied buildings? Pull people out of their cars and beat them to death? How many planned Klan executions were stopped by armed Republicans in days gone past? Please. Your asking me to trust a hundred million people who have completely rejected the morality and the principles in the Bible? I don't think so.

Granted, I'll agree that in general, most of the nations south of our border are not yet personally responsible enough to be armed. They have just been getting the Gospel preached to them in power for the last 50 years. Historically it takes about 100 years for that kind of cultural change to take place. But they are simply prey for the wicked and their government cannot protect them. Don't you think they would like to be legally armed and be able to protect themselves agsint the onslaught of murderous pycopaths that are dismembering them , cutting of their heads and worse? Brazil has only 8 guns per 100 people in the population verses the USA with 100 guns per 100 people. Yet their murder rate is with guns is 7 times higher than the USA.

I have pastor friend of mine from El Salvador. His uncle owns a little store front grocery that sells a couple dozen items. The gangs are so bad that you will have 2 or 3 gangs come ever day demanding protection money. Since they were starving him and his family out. He got himself a revolver and chaste them all away. 2 weeks later the government comes and arrests him and locks him up for two years for possession of the revolver. Who called the police on him? It sure as heck was not his neighbors. It was the gangs themselves.

So what do you propose to do about the hundred million of us who have "completely rejected the morality and the principles in the Bible?" (Actually, I think you'll find it's closer to two hundred million, but never mind.) It's too late to evangelize us, you have expressed too much hatred for that to work.

 

[Speedwell]

Well, I think it's plausible that every murder in south Chicago by someone who leans Democrat--I'll bet not a one is pro-Trump. I suspect the guy who tried to murder me in DC back in 88 leaned Democrat.

That's OK. I'll just have to be a criminal. I'm told I get sexual pleasure from killing babies, too.

 

[Tanj]

Further, that conservative Christians are mostly law abiding.

What now?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

So what do you propose to do about the hundred million of us who have "completely rejected the morality and the principles in the Bible?" (Actually, I think you'll find it's closer to two hundred million, but never mind.) It's too late to evangelize us, you have expressed too much hatred for that to work.

I have won my far share of people who lean Democrat and Republican to the Lord. Plan on
winning more too, and that includes schooling them on right and wrong and Biblical principle. But I also plan on fighting for this nation politically. Which you mistake for hatred. But the that may not be my problem, but yours. Democrats who were Christians and did not own slaves also fought on the side of the slaveholders don’t forget. The reaped the error of their choices and beliefs.

 

[wing2000]

Granted, I'll agree that in general, most of the nations south of our border are not yet personally responsible enough to be armed.

What makes you think our nation is? 33,000 annual gun deaths per year doesn't strike me a sign of maturity.

 

[Hank77]

What percentage of gun owners are registered hunters? Maybe 10%

No one registers as a hunter. Hunters buy hunting licenses. How many hunters are there in the US, approximately 11.5 million. Here's a good article with statics on hunting, fishing, and wildlife watching. Target shooters, etc.
It was the newest article I could easily find.
New 5-Year Report Shows 101.6 Million Americans Participated in Hunting, Fishing & Wildlife Activities

 

[Hank77]

Democrats who were Christians and did not own slaves also fought on the side of the slaveholders don’t forget. The reaped the error of their choices and beliefs.

That old story again.....you mean the southern Dems. in the old slave states because the northern Dems. didn't.

 

[Hank77]

Yes a spoke in the wheel is a perfect description. Wonder how you missed that?

Because in my state and a few others we have already added that spoke without adding any new databases, etc. that would add new costs, by expanding the system already in use.

 

[RDKirk]

That's OK. I'll just have to be a criminal. I'm told I get sexual pleasure from killing babies, too.

Well, I'm a Democrat who owns guns, but I'm not a criminal.

It's pretty typical for people on the Internet to ignore the meaning of words like "most" and "likely," I've noted.

 

[Belk]

Harsh truths. Quite natural that as far as generally. The criminal element will band together as a political party and law abiding people will hand together in a political party. Further, that conservative Christians are mostly law abiding. Obviously there will be some crossover. But...

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

What makes you think our nation is? 33,000 annual gun deaths per year doesn't strike me a sign of maturity.

Well, like I said. When you have 100 million people in a country that completely reject Biblical morality and principle. There are very natural consequences. Nature is cruel and merciless teacher. Why do I think we are more "mature" than most of the the nations south of the border? Murder rates per capita for one. Suicide rates. They have us beat hands down. Something about that Roman Catholic heritage keeps people from killing themselves.

United States- 100 guns per 100 people. Murder rate 4.88 per 100,000 people, by gun 3.5. Suicide rate 12.6 per 100,000 people, by gun 6.69.
Serbia- 58 guns per 100 people. Murder rate 1.13 per 100,000 people, by gun .61. Suicide rate 12.1 per 100,000 people, by gun 2.49.
Austria- 30 guns per 100 people. Murder rate .51 per 100,000 people, by gun .12. Suicide rate 11.7 per 100,000 people, by gun 2.69.
Mexico- 15 guns per 100 people. Murder rate 16.35 per 100,000 people, by gun 12. Suicide rate 5 per 100,000 people, by gun .44.
Brazil- 8 guns per 100 people. Murder rate 26.74 per 100,000 people, by gun 20. Suicide rate 6 per 100,000 people, by gun .45.
Japan- .6 guns per 100 people. Murder rate .31 per 100,000 people, by gun almost none. Suicide rate 15.9 per 100,000 people, by gun almost none


As one can see there is not that much correlation between the amount of guns in the publics hands and the murder rate. Wikipedia lists charts of all the countries with this data. The data above is 2014-2015. There is no nation on earth as far as the amount of firearms and ammunition than the United States. As it should be for that matter. The USA ranks 83 out of 192 countries in murder rates. Interestingly. If you remove a half dozen cities, cities that have been completely run by the Democratic party for decades. A party that has completely rejected the Biblical principle the nation was founded upon. Cities by the way that have stricter gun laws than the rest of the country. The USA drops down near he bottom of the list in murder rates by country. Serbia is an odd ball of a nation. It's the wild west of Europe as far a firearm possession. The government has no control of the possession and sale of firearms. Because of the wars in the 1990's there are millions of fully automatic military weapons in circulation including grenade launchers, RPG's and other such novelties. Yet the murder rate is amazingly low. The regulation of firearms in Austria is just a little bit stricter than the USA. Permits and registration on handguns, none on long guns. Yet the murder rate is near the bottom of the list of nations. There are many nations like Mexico and Brazil that have pretty severe resections on firearm ownership that have enormous murder rates. One might ascertain an inability to legally protect oneself might have something to do with this. Japan has almost no firearm ownership is included to show that suicide rates do not increase simply because of easy access to firearms. Crime, violence, murder, suicide are matters of the heart and culture, not a matter of public ownership of firearms. Not only does the informed citizen of the free world need to fight the simplistic ignorant idea that says the less firearms in the hands of the public the less murder violence and crime. The free citizen, if they want their children to be free need to fight those who seek to impose immortally on the land because Bible based morality just does not suit them.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

No one registers as a hunter. Hunters buy hunting licenses. How many hunters are there in the US, approximately 11.5 million. Here's a good article with statics on hunting, fishing, and wildlife watching. Target shooters, etc.
It was the newest article I could easily find.
New 5-Year Report Shows 101.6 Million Americans Participated in Hunting, Fishing & Wildlife Activities

So my 10% guesstimate was accurate. 11.5 million people buy hunting licensees and there are 150 million gun owners. So the government does not know everyone who owns a firearm.....unless we post it on social media.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Well, I'm a Democrat who owns guns, but I'm not a criminal.

It's pretty typical for people on the Internet to ignore the meaning of words like "most" and "likely," I've noted.

Yep, which is why I guesstimated a 100 million people who have totally rejected Biblical morality and principle. If 200 million Americans lean Democrat. That means 100,000 million have not completely rejected Biblical morally and principle. Almost all the Democrats I know are very nice people. I just don't think they are as informed about the realities of planet earth as they think they are.

 

[RDKirk]

Yep, which is why I guesstimated a 100 million people who have totally rejected Biblical morality and principle. If 200 million Americans lean Democrat. That means 100,000 million have not completely rejected Biblical morally and principle. Almost all the Democrats I know are very nice people. I just don't think they are as informed about the realities of planet earth as they think they are.

OTOH, I do know some Republicans who have completely rejected Biblical morality and principle.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Oh Yeah, the lawless element in our culture clearly leans Democrat. Always has. Its not exclusively Democrat and perhaps it may be true that most Democrat voters are not lawless people. But it is what it is.