A question about Ramadan

[WingsOfTheNeophyte]

A random question, to decrease my ignorance somewhat

What is the purpose of Ramadan?

And how does the celebration of Eid play part in that purpose? (Or is it just a celebration that Ramadan is over?)

 

[MattTheAgnostic]

Please take no notice of this post, but as soon as I read the title of this thread I thought of Osama bin Laden saying " Dennis Radaman" while holding a rubber chicken and wearing oversized sunglasses. Just thought I'd share my thoughts

 

[anatolian]

There are 12 months in the islamic-lunar-calander as there are also in the sun calander, and Ramadan is the third holy month which follows the other two holy months Rajab and Shaban.Another speciality is that the fasting during ramadan is an obligatory worship.And another speciality is that Quran was started to reveal in Ramadan.And another one, during ramadan there are some extra prayers just after the night prayer according to Sunnah.Another one, Allah opens the doors of grace in Ramadan much more than other months.Another one, the Prophet once said that if we knew the importance of ramadan we would want it never end,another one...and the list goes on

Eid is two months after Ramadan.

 

[Futuwwa]

Its main purpose is to teach the faithful discipline and self-restraint.

 

[Abdurrahim]

Salaam ,

for more info

http://www.islam101.com/ramadan/qhFast.htm

 

[Adeeb]

A random question, to decrease my ignorance somewhat

What is the purpose of Ramadan?

And how does the celebration of Eid play part in that purpose? (Or is it just a celebration that Ramadan is over?)

"O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious)." 2:183

 

[Raul7]

But the big picture beyond all the rituals is that Ramadan gives Muslims a fresh start to get everything back together - like a new year's resolution except this is solely on issues that deal with Faith. The true test of whether or not your Ramadan was successful begins after Ramadan passes. If you succeed in keeping the momentum going until the next Ramadan then it was a successful one. Ramadan is the life-changer; it's your second chance to get yourself together and become the pious, righteous person God wants you to be.

 

[WingsOfTheNeophyte]

Eid is two months after Ramadan.

What!!!???? In Oman it is celebrated straight after, and goes on for like 10 days or so, I must be confusing things here

Abdurrahim,- thanks for the link, it is quite interesting,

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Abu Huraira related that the Prophet said: If a person does not avoid false talk and false conduct during Siyam, then Allah does not care if he abstains from food and drink (Bukhari, Muslim).[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]two occasions of joy for one who fasts: one when he breaks the fast and the other when he will meet his Lord" (Muslim).[/FONT][/FONT]

So basically, Ramadan is more important spiritually, which is quite good to know, because in all the discussions with my friends, nobody though there was anything more to it than the physical, which lead to people saying that it is quite pointless thing
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[français]

Pagan holiday celebrated by pre islamic pagans.. When mr. muhammad took over mecca, he decided to add some of their influences to his religion.

Hah, muslims will never tell you that the hadiths record muhammad celebrating Yom Kippur(a Jewish holiday.)
Then though, once he gets mad at the Jews, he no longer celebrates it, hence, muslims do not.

Interesting how he sort of picked and chose what he wanted him and his followers to do. If only muslims could see such things.

 

[Raul7]

What!!!???? In Oman it is celebrated straight after, and goes on for like 10 days or so, I must be confusing things here

Abdurrahim,- thanks for the link, it is quite interesting,

He is confused. Eid Al-Fitr officially ends the month of Ramadan and that's when Muslims all over the World break their fast.

So basically, Ramadan is more important spiritually, which is quite good to know, because in all the discussions with my friends, nobody though there was anything more to it than the physical, which lead to people saying that it is quite pointless thing

Definitely! The spiritual aspect is much more important than the actual act of abstaining from food and water.

 

[Raja]

Pagan holiday celebrated by pre islamic pagans.. When mr. muhammad took over mecca, he decided to add some of their influences to his religion.

Hah, muslims will never tell you that the hadiths record muhammad celebrating Yom Kippur(a Jewish holiday.)
Then though, once he gets mad at the Jews, he no longer celebrates it, hence, muslims do not.

Interesting how he sort of picked and chose what he wanted him and his followers to do. If only muslims could see such things.

Please do not talk about pagan roots !! because if we check Christian celeibrations we will find most of them are taken from pagan sources.

And I guess you know about that Francias

 

[MattTheAgnostic]

So basically both religions have pagan roots (you didn't deny it)?

 

[Raja]

So basically both religions have pagan roots (you didn't deny it)?

No, Islam never has any pagan root but Christian yes. I challenge anyone to prove the reverse.

 

[Raja]

Pagan holiday celebrated by pre islamic pagans.. When mr. muhammad took over mecca, he decided to add some of their influences to his religion.

.

The early Christians and Pagans shared many rituals and practices. Authors Freke & Gandy appear to assume that all of the copying was done by Christians from Pagan sources. 3 However, some might have gone in the opposite direction. During the 3rd century CE, Mithraism and Christianity were the main competitors for the religious affiliation the citizens of Romans. Some Christian practices might have actually been picked up by the Mithraites, rather than vice-versa.

- Many early Christians celebrated Jesus' birthday on JAN-6. Armenian Christians still do. In Alexandria, in what is now Egypt, the birthday of their god-man, Aion, was also celebrated on JAN-6.

- Christians and most Pagans eventually celebrated the birthday of their god-man on DEC-25.

-According to an ancient Christian tradition, Christ died on MAR-23 and resurrected on MAR-25. These dates agree precisely with the death and resurrection of Attis.

-Baptism was a principal ritual; it washed away a person's sins. In some rituals, Baptism was performed by sprinkling holy water on the believer; in others, the person was totally immersed.

-The most important sacrament was a ritual meal of bread and wine which symbolize the god-man's body and blood. His followers were accused of engaging in cannibalism.

-Early Christians initiated converts in March and April by baptism. Mithraism initiated their new members at this time as well.

-Early Christians were naked when they were baptized. After immersion, they then put on white clothing and a crown. They carried a candle and walked in a procession to a basilica. Followers of Mithra were also baptized naked, put on white clothing and a crown, and walked in a procession to the temple. However, they carried torches.

- At Pentecost, the followers of Jesus were recorded as speaking in tongues. At Trophonius and Delos, the Pagan priestesses also spoke in tongues: They appeared to speak in such a way that each person present heard her words in the observer's own language.

- An inscription to Mithras reads: "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." 1 In John 6:53-54, Jesus is said to have repeated this theme: "...Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (KJV).

-The Bible records that Jesus was crucified between two thieves. One went to heaven and the other to hell. In the Mithras mysteries, a common image showed Mithras flanked by two torchbearers, one on either side. One held a torch pointed upwards, the other downwards. This symbolized ascent to heaven or descent to hell.

-In Attis, a bull was slaughtered while on a perforated platform. The animal's blood flowed down over an initiate who stood in a pit under the platform. The believer was then considered to have been "born again." Poor people could only afford a sheep, and so were literally washed in the blood of the lamb. This practice was interpreted symbolically by Christians.

- There were many additional points of similarity between Mithraism and Christianity. 2 St. Augustine even declared that the priests of Mithraism worshiped the same God as he did:

Followers of both religions celebrated a ritual meal involving bread. It was called a missa in Latin or mass in English.

Both the Catholic church and Mithraism had a total of seven sacraments.

Epiphany, JAN-6, was originally the festival in which the followers of Mithra celebrated the visit of the Magi to their newborn god-man. The Christian Church took it over in the 9th century.

Source:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm

 

[peaceful soul]

The early Christians and Pagans shared many rituals and practices. Authors Freke & Gandy appear to assume that all of the copying was done by Christians from Pagan sources. 3 However, some might have gone in the opposite direction. During the 3rd century CE, Mithraism and Christianity were the main competitors for the religious affiliation the citizens of Romans. Some Christian practices might have actually been picked up by the Mithraites, rather than vice-versa.

- Many early Christians celebrated Jesus' birthday on JAN-6. Armenian Christians still do. In Alexandria, in what is now Egypt, the birthday of their god-man, Aion, was also celebrated on JAN-6.

- Christians and most Pagans eventually celebrated the birthday of their god-man on DEC-25.

-According to an ancient Christian tradition, Christ died on MAR-23 and resurrected on MAR-25. These dates agree precisely with the death and resurrection of Attis.

-Baptism was a principal ritual; it washed away a person's sins. In some rituals, Baptism was performed by sprinkling holy water on the believer; in others, the person was totally immersed.

-The most important sacrament was a ritual meal of bread and wine which symbolize the god-man's body and blood. His followers were accused of engaging in cannibalism.

-Early Christians initiated converts in March and April by baptism. Mithraism initiated their new members at this time as well.

-Early Christians were naked when they were baptized. After immersion, they then put on white clothing and a crown. They carried a candle and walked in a procession to a basilica. Followers of Mithra were also baptized naked, put on white clothing and a crown, and walked in a procession to the temple. However, they carried torches.

- At Pentecost, the followers of Jesus were recorded as speaking in tongues. At Trophonius and Delos, the Pagan priestesses also spoke in tongues: They appeared to speak in such a way that each person present heard her words in the observer's own language.

- An inscription to Mithras reads: "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." 1 In John 6:53-54, Jesus is said to have repeated this theme: "...Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (KJV).

-The Bible records that Jesus was crucified between two thieves. One went to heaven and the other to hell. In the Mithras mysteries, a common image showed Mithras flanked by two torchbearers, one on either side. One held a torch pointed upwards, the other downwards. This symbolized ascent to heaven or descent to hell.

-In Attis, a bull was slaughtered while on a perforated platform. The animal's blood flowed down over an initiate who stood in a pit under the platform. The believer was then considered to have been "born again." Poor people could only afford a sheep, and so were literally washed in the blood of the lamb. This practice was interpreted symbolically by Christians.

- There were many additional points of similarity between Mithraism and Christianity. 2 St. Augustine even declared that the priests of Mithraism worshiped the same God as he did:

Followers of both religions celebrated a ritual meal involving bread. It was called a missa in Latin or mass in English.

Both the Catholic church and Mithraism had a total of seven sacraments.

Epiphany, JAN-6, was originally the festival in which the followers of Mithra celebrated the visit of the Magi to their newborn god-man. The Christian Church took it over in the 9th century.

Source:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm

None of this means anything if there is not a cause and effect?

 

[Raja]

None of this means anything if there is not a cause and effect?

First, I wrote this in respond to Francias' claim that Islam has a pagan roots!!

second, what is the role of Cause and Effect here ?? we are talking about similarities between Christianity as a religion and other pagan beliefs.

 

[peaceful soul]

First, I wrote this in respond to Francias' claim that Islam has a pagan roots!!

second, what is the role of Cause and Effect here ?? we are talking about similarities between Christianity as a religion and other pagan beliefs.

In order to prove that one religion borrowed from another, one must prove that religion B incorporated rites of religion A. Just because religion B is similar to religion A does not create a correlation (direct association) to religion A. You must prove that because of religion A, the same practices of religion B exist. This is analogous to rejecting a copyright/patent on the basis that subject B copied from subject A. A similarity by itself, does not indicate a copy. Religion B must be proven to have been under the direct influence of religion A. Failing to create a direct association is grounds for dismissal of copying/influence. The influences may have come for natural/logical lines of progression of a culture/society/religion.

It is no mystery that throughout history, many things repeat or are similar in a cyclical fashion. It is not a big deal that many things will appear similar. The caution that I am suggesting is that one must not automatically assume that things are borrowed without investigating each source first to determine if there is a direct association. I do see that there is a direct cause and effect in some Islamic practices being borrowed or incorporated from pagan sources on a wholesale basis.

 

[MattTheAgnostic]

You can't honestly expect people to believe you when you give that argument. Why not? Try applying that reasoning to your own beliefs and proove God is real, but you won't.

 

[Raja]

In order to prove that one religion borrowed from another, one must prove that religion B incorporated rites of religion A. Just because religion B is similar to religion A does not create a correlation (direct association) to religion A. You must prove that because of religion A, the same practices of religion B exist. This is analogous to rejecting a copyright/patent on the basis that subject B copied from subject A. A similarity by itself, does not indicate a copy. Religion B must be proven to have been under the direct influence of religion A. Failing to create a direct association is grounds for dismissal of copying/influence. The influences may have come for natural/logical lines of progression of a culture/society/religion.

It is no mystery that throughout history, many things repeat or are similar in a cyclical fashion. It is not a big deal that many things will appear similar. The caution that I am suggesting is that one must not automatically assume that things are borrowed without investigating each source first to determine if there is a direct association. I do see that there is a direct cause and effect in some Islamic practices being borrowed or incorporated from pagan sources on a wholesale basis.

With my respect to your speech. let me tell you that the matter is easier than what you have said.

We have Christianty as a doctrine on one hand. and we have pagan doctrines on the other hand.

Now, when we copmare the main pillars, dogmas, rituals of Christianity with those of the pagan's. we discovered that there is a big similraities between the two!!

to make it easy for you, try to compare Islam with those pagan doctrines and you will not find any similraity between the two. ( in the main pillars or in the sub ceremonies).

that's it my dear friend. so easy and simple.

 

[peaceful soul]

With my respect to your speech. let me tell you that the matter is easier than what you have said.

We have Christianty as a doctrine on one hand. and we have pagan doctrines on the other hand.

Now, when we copmare the main pillars, dogmas, rituals of Christianity with those of the pagan's. we discovered that there is a big similraities between the two!!

to make it easy for you, try to compare Islam with those pagan doctrines and you will not find any similraity between the two. ( in the main pillars or in the sub ceremonies).

that's it my dear friend. so easy and simple.

You have not yet shown cause an effect in Christianity. I can show you cause and effect in Islam rather easily in a few instances. Establish that religion B knowingly used religion A as a prop to render a philosophical/ritual continuity that resulted in religion B.