A protestant view of the Didache?

[SloopidyBoop]

As a protestant myself I never really spent much time being overly concerned with early church writings, holding only to scripture. And I still hold scripture as the authority in my life.

I have been looking into a few writings with the view that they are less than scripture and am starting to weigh them with scripture to see how each one holds up. I am wondering if any of you have studied the Didache at any length? It seems to me to be some kind of early devotional. It is anonymous, and does not compete with the cannon. So in the ending guess it doesn't matter. Just curious what you think.

 

[sandman]

View attachment 328634

As a protestant myself I never really spent much time being overly concerned with early church writings, holding only to scripture. And I still hold scripture as the authority in my life.

I have been looking into a few writings with the view that they are less than scripture and am starting to weigh them with scripture to see how each one holds up. I am wondering if any of you have studied the Didache at any length? It seems to me to be some kind of early devotional. It is anonymous, and does not compete with the cannon. So in the ending guess it doesn't matter. Just curious what you think.

As I remember ….there are several areas that do not line up with what is known as the written Word of God… Although it has some validity to it’s writing there are several areas that either deviate from the Truth or embellish biblical Truths with very obvious, human insertions ….

The Word of God is my final authority for faith, practice, and Truth … if it doesn’t line up with the Word of God it goes in the circular file.

 

[SloopidyBoop]

Very good point I have seen this also from writings and commentaries today. Solis scriptural is my upbringing. And I am interested to see How the Word will judge it. Strange that catholicism claims it as catechism since it is pre Catholic.

 

[Paidiske]

I've made a bit of a study on some of the very earliest church writings (the Didache, the Shepherd, and some others). At one point I thought I'd write a thesis on them, but then I figured out I can only do so much and that was one thing too many!

I think they're really helpful for giving us some insight into how the very earliest Christian communities understood and lived out their faith; and, by extension, might help us critically examine our own understandings and practices.

 

[RileyG]

Subscribing. I am also interested in what they have to say.

 

[FenderTL5]

As I remember ….there are several areas that do not line up with what is known as the written Word of God… Although it has some validity to it’s writing there are several areas that either deviate from the Truth or embellish biblical Truths with very obvious, human insertions ….

Name one.

Here's the full text (linkage).

 

[SloopidyBoop]

I've made a bit of a study on some of the very earliest church writings (the Didache, the Shepherd, and some others). At one point I thought I'd write a thesis on them, but then I figured out I can only do so much and that was one thing too many!

I think they're really helpful for giving us some insight into how the very earliest Christian communities understood and lived out their faith; and, by extension, might help us critically examine our own understandings and practices.

Yes! This is exactly what I was thinking! Whatever my denominational presuppositions. The end all truth is this: if any future theologians were to find a book stores worth of our modern Christian writings, they would be called non canonical and or pseudo-Epigraphy.

Contrariwise we have statements and admonitions from the prophets like this

Jer 6:16 This is what the Lord says: Stand by the roadways and look. Ask about the ancient paths, “Which is the way to what is good?” Then take it and find rest for yourselves. But they protested "We won't".

I am not saying these are the path but signs perhaps pointing to it? Much like text books pointing towards the subject of your degree.

And for those of us who have been given the gift of Gods grace through Jesus our Christ we also now have the Counselor to guide our studies.

So I say let's go listen to the lives of our long lost brothers and sisters. Let's see what whispers we can here about the Lord, and ask Him which are the right paths. Let's fill our lamps and trim our wicks and be ready.

 

[sandman]

Name one.

Here's the full text (linkage).

I apologize …I have a habit of sometimes going through things backwards …which I did here.

I briefly went through this … Some of the things could just be one small word… others are man’s embellishment… of added words that may or may not be contradictory to the Bible.

The OP asked for a protestant view … although I don’t go by titles, I guess by default I am protestant although I just consider myself a believer.. So this is my view.

I responded because you asked due to my post … but that’s it …I am not taking this any further. It’s not a debate and I am not criticizing your belief. So please don’t take anything personal …



XV

3. And reprove one another not in wrath but in peace as you find in the Gospel, and let none speak with any who has done wrong to his neighbour, nor let him hear a word from you until he repents.

4. But your prayers and alms and all your acts perform as ye find in the Gospel of our Lord.

XIV

On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.



XI

5. But let him not stay more than one day, or if need be a second as well; but if he stay three days, he is a false prophet.

6. And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night's lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.

7. Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in → a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven."

All the uses of "a" spirit

5. Remember, Lord, thy Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in thy love, and gather it together in its holiness from the four winds to thy kingdom which thou hast prepared for it. For thine is the power and the glory for ever.

XIII

Let not your fasts be with the hypocrites, for they fast on Mondays and Thursdays, but do you fast on Wednesdays and Fridays.
2. And do not pray as the hypocrites, but as the Lord commanded in his Gospel, pray thus: "Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, as in Heaven so also upon earth; give us today our daily bread, and forgive us our debt as we forgive our debtors, and lead us not into trial, but deliver us from the Evil One, for thine is the power and the glory for ever."
3. Pray thus three times a day.

VII

• Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
  2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
  3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."
  4. And before the baptism let the baptiser and him who is to be baptised fast, and any others who are able. And thou shalt bid him who is to be baptised to fast one or two days before.
• 
  
• V
• Embellished
• 
  
• IV
• 6. Of whatsoever thou hast gained by thy hands thou shalt give a ransom for thy sins.
• 8. Thou shalt not turn away the needy, but shalt share everything with thy brother, and shalt not say it is thine own, for if you are sharers in the imperishable, how much more in the things which perish?
• 14. In the congregation thou shalt confess thy transgressions, and thou shalt not betake thyself to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life.
• 
  
• III
• 
  
• 6. My child, be not a grumbler, for this leads to blasphemy, nor stubborn, nor a thinker of evil, for from all these are blasphemies engendered.
• 10. Receive the accidents that befall to thee as good, knowing that nothing happens without God
• 
  
• II
• I don’t know what to say about this one …While is not all inaccurate it is just a plume of mans laws…
• 
  
• I
• Now, the teaching of these words is this: "Bless those that curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast for those that persecute you. For what credit is it to you if you love those that love you? Do not even the heathen do the same?" But, for your part, "love those that hate you," and you will have no enemy.

This is just a distortion of Luke 6

 

[SloopidyBoop]

....... Well that like, really helped me out, thanks y'all. I'm glad you gave me your take

This is actually a really good exercise in discernment. Remembering two things when looking at this text. #1 Resting on the truth of the Holy Bible and weighing the truth claims of these other writings with the word of God as my scale.

#2 remembering the people who studied these writings, they were reading copies of letters at that stage. There was no cannon yet. And only a small number of them were literate. They gathered in small family groups and worked the text as best they could, some through the Holy Spirit, and others by their own wisdom. And as yet even through all that difficulty. The Most High has guided His children to protect and provide this corpus for our generation to study and approve truth. And discard lies. I realize that I need to lay my emotions down and work in prayerful wisdom, only by way of the Counselor can I approach this. People died to protect these. There is a humiliating responsibility associated with handling these texts. And because of devine providences we know now for a fact that some of our fathers lied to us, and told us false things concerning our Lord and God, we should go to God and he will heal our hearts from this hurt. And we also know that throughout all these people and generations He reserved His word and saved us from damnation through His servant Jesus Christ and all of His children who also sacrificed themselves in the Name of Jesus Christ to give us these writings and Holy Truths. These are the last days, and pretty soon we will be tested just like the people who wrote these words were. Let's share what the Lord has given us and practice true familial affection. Love God and love each other.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I think if you're well versed in scripture reading the Didache and the Philokalia etc is good for educational purposes.

 

[HTacianas]

View attachment 328634

As a protestant myself I never really spent much time being overly concerned with early church writings, holding only to scripture. And I still hold scripture as the authority in my life.

I have been looking into a few writings with the view that they are less than scripture and am starting to weigh them with scripture to see how each one holds up. I am wondering if any of you have studied the Didache at any length? It seems to me to be some kind of early devotional. It is anonymous, and does not compete with the cannon. So in the ending guess it doesn't matter. Just curious what you think.

When I was a protestant one of the very first non-canonical writings of the early Church I read was the Didache. It answered a lot of questions for me but there were things in it I didn't understand. Later as I went on, I began to understand it more and more. I personally consider it to be an authoritative writing of the early Church. It obviously is not canonical because the Church chose not to include it in the canon. But it is still extremely valuable.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

View attachment 328634

As a protestant myself I never really spent much time being overly concerned with early church writings, holding only to scripture. And I still hold scripture as the authority in my life.

I have been looking into a few writings with the view that they are less than scripture and am starting to weigh them with scripture to see how each one holds up. I am wondering if any of you have studied the Didache at any length? It seems to me to be some kind of early devotional. It is anonymous, and does not compete with the cannon. So in the ending guess it doesn't matter. Just curious what you think.

Reading through the Didache I found that a lot of the writings are back to the basic commandment to treat others as you would like to be treated, and the sermon on the mount. A lot of gospel basics. I find the only part Protestantism tends to latch onto chapter 2 and chapter 5 and focusing on it exclusively. Also some of the writings probably only made sense to the original audience such as hypocrites fast on these two days instead of the days prescribed by the didache. The part about water being alive or dead, or cold or warm for a baptism didn't make much sense either.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Reading through the Didache I found that a lot of the writings are back to the basic commandment to treat others as you would like to be treated, and the sermon on the mount. A lot of gospel basics. I find the only part Protestantism tends to latch onto chapter 2 and chapter 5 and focusing on it exclusively. Also some of the writings probably only made sense to the original audience such as hypocrites fast on these two days instead of the days prescribed by the didache. The part about water being alive or dead, or cold or warm for a baptism didn't make much sense either.

Some of these are separating early Christians from the Jewish communities. Jews fasted on Mondays and Thursdays, so Christians fasted on Wednesdays and Fridays, attributing to those days as the day Judas set up the betrayal and on the death of Christ. Orthodox Christians still follow this fast today pretty much year round. Fasting is not just for our health or something we sacrifice but rather it is a part of the community experience. We know that right now, Orthodox Christians around the world are in the Lenten fast. We're not fasting as individuals but as a part of the world-wide ekklesia.

As for baptism, since Christ was baptized in the Jordan River, the most proper baptism was in a river or body of living or moving water. The Russians still celebrate Epiphany in frozen lakes and rivers:

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

As an additional note, the problem with Sola Scriptura and especially with Nuda Scriptura is that it generally ignores the centuries of Christianity that preceded the Reformation. Yes, that is too broad of a paintbrush I know. However, when they ignore the general consensus of Christian thought, philosophy and theology and replace it with, "Well the Bible says this!" and I, me, the great EGO, am the only one who can interpret it.

As Bishop Kallistos Ware wrote in the Orthodox Way:
Always we need to keep in view that the Bible is not just a collection of historical documents, but it is the book of the Church, containing God’s word. And so we do not read the Bible as isolated individuals, interpreting it solely by the light of our private understanding, or in terms of current theories about source, form or redaction criticism. We read it as members of the Church, in communion with all the other members throughout the ages. The final criterion for our interpretation of Scripture is the mind of the Church. And this means keeping constantly in view how the meaning of Scripture is explained and applied in Holy Tradition: that is to say, how the Bible is understood by the Fathers and the saints, and how it is used in liturgical worship.

 

[Sketcher]

Good to read, like Christian books are good to read. The Didache happens to be a Christian book that is very old.

 

[SloopidyBoop]

When I was a protestant one of the very first non-canonical writings of the early Church I read was the Didache. It answered a lot of questions for me but there were things in it I didn't understand. Later as I went on, I began to understand it more and more. I personally consider it to be an authoritative writing of the early Church. It obviously is not canonical because the Church chose not to include it in the canon. But it is still extremely valuable.

Very true, as I read this I understand, it doesn't profess to be the Word of God, but points to it. There are places where we can see some expansion sure. But it doesn't "Argue" with scripture. Whatcha think?

 

[SloopidyBoop]

As an additional note, the problem with Sola Scriptura and especially with Nuda Scriptura is that it generally ignores the centuries of Christianity that preceded the Reformation. Yes, that is too broad of a paintbrush I know. However, when they ignore the general consensus of Christian thought, philosophy and theology and replace it with, "Well the Bible says this!" and I, me, the great EGO, am the only one who can interpret it.

As Bishop Kallistos Ware wrote in the Orthodox Way:
Always we need to keep in view that the Bible is not just a collection of historical documents, but it is the book of the Church, containing God’s word. And so we do not read the Bible as isolated individuals, interpreting it solely by the light of our private understanding, or in terms of current theories about source, form or redaction criticism. We read it as members of the Church, in communion with all the other members throughout the ages. The final criterion for our interpretation of Scripture is the mind of the Church. And this means keeping constantly in view how the meaning of Scripture is explained and applied in Holy Tradition: that is to say, how the Bible is understood by the Fathers and the saints, and how it is used in liturgical worship.

Wow Psalti I am really digging what you're putting down here. I am glad you jumped in on this!

 

[HTacianas]

Very true, as I read this I understand, it doesn't profess to be the Word of God, but points to it. There are places where we can see some expansion sure. But it doesn't "Argue" with scripture. Whatcha think?

No, it certainly doesn't argue against scripture. It was likely first written before the gospels and pretty much records the traditions of the early Church. It expands on scripture such as it's mention of "do not give that which is holy to the dogs". Anyone can today speculate on what that means, but I consider the Didache to be authoritative on its meaning. And the meaning is still true today.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Wow Psalti I am really digging what you're putting down here. I am glad you jumped in on this!

Thanks. This is where Holy Tradition comes into its own. We are separated by 2000 years of time and culture from when the NT was written. So for 21st century people, jumping in on what a given passage means is hardly credible. But we do have centuries of additional writings and commentaries such as the Didache that can point to how our spiritual ancestors viewed things.

So in Chapter 14
Κατὰ κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου συναχθέντες κλάσατε ἄρτον καὶ εὐχαριστήσατε
But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving

We already see here still within the 1st century, Christians have already begun to make Sunday their main day of worship. Justin Martyr, in 150AD also confirms that the first day of the week has become the day of worship, in honor of the Resurrection. The Orthodox Orthros or Matins service is different for Sundays in that we include one Gospel reading of the Resurrection (for a total of 11), plus the Evlogetaria verses such as this one:

Blessed are You, O Lord, teach me Your statutes.

"Why do you mingle the ointments with your tears full of pity, O women disciples?" Thus the Angel who was shining in the tomb cried to the myrrh-bearing women. "See for yourselves the empty tomb and understand, that the Savior has risen from the sepulcher."

 

[DragonFox91]

I read it once in a while. I find it helpful. There’s little in it a Protestant s/ disagree w/.

I think it helps show a lot of Catholic / Orthodox teachings still hadn’t developed yet.