A Call for Repentance: An Open Letter from Palestinian Christians to Western Church Leaders and Theologians

[Valletta]

I've already condemned the attack by Hamas, don't try and accuse me of supporting their atrocities.

However, the Palestinians and Hamas are not the same. Killing of innocent civilians by either Hamas or the Israeli government,
is unjustified.

I did not. What I am saying is the focus needs to be on eliminating the terrorists and their supporters.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The Hamas government is the government voted in by Palestinians.

No, it isn’t. The Hamas government that controls Gaza is the product of a 2007 civil war that dissolved the Fatah-Hamas unity government that came out of the 2006 election. Palestine hasn’t had an election since.

 

[Valletta]

No, it isn’t. The Hamas government that controls Gaza is the product of a 2007 civil war that dissolved the Fatah-Hamas unity government that came out of the 2006 election. Palestine hasn’t had an election since.

Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.[1]

2006 Palestinian legislative election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[iluvatar5150]

Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.[1]

2006 Palestinian legislative election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Right, and that election led to a unity government, which dissolved after the 2007 battle between Fatah and Hamas, and then Hamas took over Gaza. Nobody elected Hamas to run Gaza unilaterally.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I did not. What I am saying is the focus needs to be on eliminating the terrorists and their supporters.

What you posted; "True genocide was just committed against the Jews by a horrific terrorist group. You're talking citizenship after the rape, torture, and murder of over a thousand civilians, with babies heads chopped off. "

 

[Valletta]

What you posted; "True genocide was just committed against the Jews by a horrific terrorist group. You're talking citizenship after the rape, torture, and murder of over a thousand civilians, with babies heads chopped off. "

Exactly. This is not the time to be talking about historical events. We have a terrorist group, supported by a lot of people in Gaza, that has just conducted the largest mass killing of Jews since the history of the Holocaust. This group TARGETED babies and others innocents. They celebrated after their rapes and killings. There were funded by Iran, as is Hezbollah. The goal of the jihadists is to exterminate all Jews and then come after the United States. Hamas is urging the people of Gaza to stay in the north. This is so they can get some of them killed and use that as propaganda to blame Israel for killing civilians.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Exactly. This is not the time to be talking about historical events. We have a terrorist group, supported by a lot of people in Gaza, that has just conducted the largest mass killing of Jews since the history of the Holocaust. This group TARGETED babies and others innocents. They celebrated after their rapes and killings. There were funded by Iran, as is Hezbollah. The goal of the jihadists is to exterminate all Jews and then come after the United States. Hamas is urging the people of Gaza to stay in the north. This is so they can get some of them killed and use that as propaganda to blame Israel for killing civilians.

but you accused me of supporting the rape, torture, and murder of over a thousand civilians, with babies heads chopped off.

I had already condemned the act Hamas committed against innocent citizens October 7.

 

[JosephZ]

“We are all Palestinians. We live in the same city, with the same suffering. We are all under siege and are all the same, the Christians are suffering like any other Gaza people, this is our land and we will not leave. Can you imagine that someone called you and forced you and your family to go to another place? We will stay." -- Kamel Ayyad, Spokesperson for the Church of Saint Porphyrius in Gaza City

"There are people dying... there are also many trapped under the rubble and the hope of finding them alive is almost non-existent, including some eight hundred children... the parish, for example, is filled with ordinary people and Muslim neighbors. These are civilians who pose no danger to anyone.” -- Fr. Gabriel Romanelli, Parish Priest of the Holy Family Church in Gaza City

 

[rjs330]

I've already condemned the attack by Hamas, don't try and accuse me of supporting their atrocities.

However, the Palestinians and Hamas are not the same. Killing of innocent civilians by either Hamas or the Israeli government,
is unjustified.

This is a typical fallacy in attempting to separate Palestinians from Hamas. Hamas was chosen by the Palestinian people to govern them. And before you use the "but there hasn't been a vote since" argument you must take not that the Palestinians never did a thing to remove Hamas. In fact they supported Hamas' Israel agenda. They educate their children in schools to hate and kill Israelis. They also do it in their children's media. Fully 50% of them support Hamas agenda on the destruction of Israel. When Hamas attacked Israel Palestinians were dancing and celebrating in the streets. There were Palestinian workers involved in the attack on Israel. They provided Intel to Hamas and added in the attack.

When you take into consideration everything while all Palestinians are not members of Hamas they sure support what Hamas has done.

And to state that Israel kills innocent civilians and leave it at that with no context is extremely biased against Israel. It makes it sound like Israel is just willy nilly killing civilians.

But we all KNOW Israel is trying not to. It's Hamas' fault if innocent civilians killed and Hamas' fault only. THEY are the ones deliberately putting civilians in danger. THEY are the ones marching them out from an into the rooftops. THEY are the ones who blocked escape routes so they couldn't get out. And when Israel was trying to establish corridors for the civilians to escape, it was HAMAS who attacked to prevent it.

 

[JosephZ]

This is a typical fallacy in attempting to separate Palestinians from Hamas. Hamas was chosen by the Palestinian people to govern them. And before you use the "but there hasn't been a vote since" argument you must take not that the Palestinians never did a thing to remove Hamas.

Less than 15% of Palestinians alive today voted for Hamas in 2006. After being elected in 2007, Hamas violently took control of Gaza.

I asked you this question in another thread, but it went unanswered.

Let's say a young man was born on an island where his parents voted for a group that they thought at the time would benefit their lives. After this group was elected, it decided not to hold any further elections, and the island has had this group as its governing body ever since. It turns out this group likes to attack a nearby island, and in return, the nearby island often retaliates with a force ten times that of the group on his island. In the past, when people criticized the group or tried to remove them from power, their efforts were quickly crushed, and individuals who tried to organize rebellion against the group were often severely injured or even killed for doing so.

This young man is now grown, married, and has three small children. He's unhappy living under the leadership of the group his parents helped vote into power and tired of the conflict it's having with the neighboring island and the suffering it brings.

What would you do if you found yourself in his situation?

 

[rjs330]

Less than 15% of Palestinians alive today voted for Hamas in 2006. After being elected in 2007, Hamas violently took control of Gaza.

I asked you this question in another thread, but it went unanswered.

Let's say a young man was born on an island where his parents voted for a group that they thought at the time would benefit their lives. After this group was elected, it decided not to hold any further elections, and the island has had this group as its governing body ever since. It turns out this group likes to attack a nearby island, and in return, the nearby island often retaliates with a force ten times that of the group on his island. In the past, when people criticized the group or tried to remove them from power, their efforts were quickly crushed, and individuals who tried to organize rebellion against the group were often severely injured or even killed for doing so.

This young man is now grown, married, and has three small children. He's unhappy living under the leadership of the group his parents helped vote into power and tired of the conflict it's having with the neighboring island and the suffering it brings.

What would you do if you found yourself in his situation?

Well with 50% of my fellow countrymen supporting them I don't know there is a lot I could do.

And I don't buy the 15% rule. That was less than 20 years ago.

Turns out? Are you trying to sell me on the idea that the Palestinians had no idea who they were voting for?

Would you say that only 15% of Americans alive today voted in the 2004 election?

 

[JosephZ]

Well with 50% of my fellow countrymen supporting them I don't know there is a lot I could do.

That's right. You would try your best to stay out of sight and out of mind. You would provide for your family as best you can and live quietly among your neighbors. Now you know why Hamas remains in power.

And I don't buy the 15% rule. That was less than 20 years ago.

It's simple math as I showed in this post.

 

[rjs330]

That's right. You would try your best to stay out of sight and out of mind. You would provide for your family as best you can and live quietly among your neighbors. Now you know why Hamas remains in power.


It's simple math as I showed in this post.

And Hamas would win again even if there was a vote. I don't get your point.

 

[iluvatar5150]

And Hamas would win again even if there was a vote. I don't get your point.

What’s not to get? You want to blame the people of Gaza for electing Hamas when basic arithmetic shows that your assumptions are false. Nearly 3/4 of the country wasn’t even able to vote in that election, and of those who were, less than half voted for Hamas.

A higher percentage of Americans in 1992 voted for Ross Perot than presently-living Gazans voted for Hamas in 2006.

 

[rjs330]

What’s not to get? You want to blame the people of Gaza for electing Hamas when basic arithmetic shows that your assumptions are false. Nearly 3/4 of the country wasn’t even able to vote in that election, and of those who were, less than half voted for Hamas.

A higher percentage of Americans in 1992 voted for Ross Perot than presently-living Gazans voted for Hamas in 2006.

And with support Hamas had in Gaza they would be chosen again. So what's your point? 50% of them like what Hamas is doing. They were dancing in the streets.

 

[iluvatar5150]

And with support Hamas had in Gaza they would be chosen again. So what's your point? 50% of them like what Hamas is doing.

Source? That’s not what recent polling (conducted immediately before the attack) suggested.

What Palestinians Really Think of Hamas

Before the war, Gaza’s leaders were deeply unpopular—but an Israeli crackdown could change that.

www.foreignaffairs.com

 

[Carl Emerson]

The displacement and disposement of the Palestinians when the state of Israel was declared in 1948,
is a cause for the hatred we see today.

Actually the hatred and jealousy goes right back to the choosing of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the promise of the Land.

The British set aside Transjordan for the Arabs and Israel for the Jews.

The Arabs refused the agreement under the Balfour Declaration choosing rather to dispute the British settlement out of Hatred for the Jews.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Actually the hatred and jealousy goes right back to the choosing of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the promise of the Land.

The British set aside Transjordan for the Arabs and Israel for the Jews.

The Arabs refused the agreement under the Balfour Declaration choosing rather to dispute the British settlement out of Hatred for the Jews.

Your logic could be used by Native Americans and demand that all non-native Americans move back to their ancestors'
nations of origin. The reality is, it's not going to happen, and neither is Irael going away, but neither are the Palestinians.

The fact is, Great Britain didn't hold up the promises she made to the Arabs nor the Jews back in 1947
and the Arabs did accept those promises. However, the Zionists rejected the UN proposal for the borders
of Israel and in 1947, attacked the British in the King David Hotel bombing, killing 81 British.

The bottom line is, there are plenty of sins on both sides made since 1948. However, the Palestinians
got the worse part of the deal. They weren't even invited to the UN negotiation table when the borders
for the state of Israel were being made. Netanyahu even rejected the idea of a two-state solution,
back in 2008, which Israel showed when they made a pre-immanent attack on Gaza.

Then more recently, the bulldozing of Palestinian homes on the West Bank over the years, was barely
reported by the US media. However, the rest of Europe saw it and was shocked that the US backed Israel.

In all of this, Biden gives full support to Israel, but now is calling for a cease fire in Gaza, which Netanyahu
rejected. Biden is drawing the US into a war in the Middle East with his idiotic policies.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Your logic could be used by Native Americans and demand that all non-native Americans move back to their ancestors'
nations of origin.

I don't see the parallel, Does God have the right to choose and favour a Nation and depopulate where He invites them to live or not ???