rambot

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Children frequently seek things which they should not have. Obviously having their genitals modified to superficially resemble those of the opposite sex in such a way as to permanently destroy their reproductive capability would constitute such a folly.

It follows that a reasonable and Christian man should therefore find the opposing position to what I have articulated, namely, that one should act to grant such a self-destructive wish, to lie well beyond the dark depths of abhorrence, and instead properly belonging to the nightmarish realm of the perverse and the unspeakable, as indeed would be the reaction of nearly anyone in earlier, more civilized eras, even the late 20th century, except for the absolute vanguard of the far left.
No it doesn't follow.

I will assume you have never interacted (certainly not in any way to try to gain an understanding) with a transgender person. I would also assume you've never had a conversation with a parent who is supportive of their transgender child.

I'm inclined to believe you also haven't worked with the victims of rape or significant sexual abuse. Perhaps you haven't heard their terrible and terrifying testimonials.

Again I repeat: The comparison is abhorrent.
 
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MarkSB

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I think many left people will argue teens will have pre-marital sex no matter what, so you must teach them about condoms, birth control, morning after pill, abortion etc so their lives won't be ruined. They do not put the spiritual matters into perspective. IMHO

I have to agree with the others that teaching kids about birth control is not the same as encouraging pre-marital sex. It's simply providing them with the information that they need to make the decision for themselves, when the time comes. (Which is hopefully later rather than sooner). At some point they are going to be faced with that decision - and personally, I think educating them about the physical side and having a talk about the spiritual consequences is the best way to go.

We had sex ed in 5th or 6th grade, and I didn't find it to be encouraging of pre-marital sex (not by my memory, at least). My wife is a teacher - and although sex education is not her specialty, she has sat in on some sex ed courses and has also said that they are not encouraging of pre-marital sex. The ones that she sat in on, at least, sound like quite the opposite. The difficulty of caring for a baby, and the fact that no form of birth control is 100% effective is clearly communicated. And it sounds like this wasn't done to try to scare the kids into submission, but rather to give them the facts and let them know what the possible consequences of their actions are.
 
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FaithT

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I have to agree with the others that teaching kids about birth control is not the same as encouraging pre-marital sex. It's simply providing them with the information that they need to make the decision for themselves, when the time comes. (Which is hopefully later rather than sooner). At some point they are going to be faced with that decision - and personally, I think educating them about the physical side and having a talk about the spiritual consequences is the best way to go.

We had sex ed in 5th or 6th grade, and I didn't find it to be encouraging of pre-marital sex (not by my memory, at least). My wife is a teacher - and although sex education is not her specialty, she has sat in on some sex ed courses and has also said that they are not encouraging of pre-marital sex. The ones that she sat in on, at least, sound like quite the opposite. The difficulty of caring for a baby, and the fact that no form of birth control is 100% effective is clearly communicated. And it sounds like this wasn't done to try to scare the kids into submission, but rather to give them the facts and let them know what the possible consequences of their actions are.
I think that at least teenagers, do see these teaching moments as a green light to have sex. Or at the very least it sways them.
 
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FaithT

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Yes, I agree.
When my daughter was in high school she told me about some girl who was sexually active with her boyfriend and would talk about going a number of times to Planned Parenthood for either Plan B or the morning after pill or something.
 
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RileyG

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When my daughter was in high school she told me about some girl who was sexually active with her boyfriend and would talk about going a number of times to Planned Parenthood for either Plan B or the morning after pill or something.
Yikes! that's not good
 
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RileyG

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I wonder what ever happened to her .

Edit: I just looked her up on Facebook. She‘s married to someone else.
People go through relationships and have casual sex all the time. They act like it's no big deal. That's none my business, anyway. *shrug*
 
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FaithT

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People go through relationships and have casual sex all the time. They act like it's no big deal. That's none my business, anyway. *shrug*
I think that they’re influenced by society and really do think it’s no big deal. Add to that what they’re learning in sex ed and it’s a recipe for disaster.
 
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rambot

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I think that at least teenagers, do see these teaching moments as a green light to have sex. Or at the very least it sways them.
Strange, when we teach students about other lifestyle and behavioural changes that are beneficial they don't take those up.

I think you give teachers FAAAAR more power in the eyes of their students than you think.

Most teens that I have known who were sexually active, were doing it due to some lack of connection or trying to fill some hole in their life. Most of those particular kids would have done it regardless of the conversation about safe sex. If ANYTHING the knowledge empowered them to stand up for what they wanted a bit more (ie...if they were going to have sex, they were opting for safe sex when they were taught about it, and were MORE empowered to advocate for it, if they were taught about it).

What they are learning in sex ed is how to avoid pregnancies and STIs and STDs.

Is that REALLY information you want to withhold from people...EVEN if you disagree with what they're doing?
 
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MarkSB

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I think that at least teenagers, do see these teaching moments as a green light to have sex. Or at the very least it sways them.

So it sounds like you have an adult daughter. Did you withhold information about birth control from her Or was it taught to her in school?

I'm not aiming to criticize your parenting methods or anything... I'm genuinely interested in what your approach was. My kids are very young, so that time is a long way off. I can't say that withholding sex education would be on the table for us - since I don't think that level of sheltering is beneficial. But certainly having some type of conversation with your kids about it is warranted.

Most teens that I have known who were sexually active, were doing it due to some lack of connection or trying to fill some hole in their life. Most of those particular kids would have done it regardless of the conversation about safe sex. If ANYTHING the knowledge empowered them to stand up for what they wanted a bit more (ie...if they were going to have sex, they were opting for safe sex when they were taught about it, and were MORE empowered to advocate for it, if they were taught about it).

This is pretty much my take on it. Parental guidance, the child/adolescent's situation at home, and the way the child was raised plays a much larger role in those behaviors. That's not to say that teachers and peers don't have an influence - and I think especially at a young age kids are very impressionable (which is why I find the notion that gender fluidity should be touched upon in elementary schools - or in any phase of school for that matter - to be concerning). But the girls in my school who were sexually active at a young age (and most certainly the ones who got pregnant) typically came from broken homes, or unfortunately had other personal issues.

Maybe it was different for me because it was taught so early (6th grade, I believe) - but I don't think anyone in our class interpreted sex ed as an endorsement of youths going out and having sex.

Perhaps I'm mistaken about what grade we had sex ed in - but it was in middle school, so it was certainly before 8th grade. We were pretty immature, so of course there were the usual giggles and jokes about various things that were being taught. My wife, who is an educator, was somewhat shocked when I told her we were shown a video of a live birth, and an (extremely short) video clip of insemination from inside the vagina... I guess those things aren't usually shown, haha. It was in an educational context, so it's not like we were watching inappropriate contentography. Maybe a live birth would be a little much for that age. Whether intentional or not, the video quality of the live birth we watched was so terrible that you couldn't really see anything. (And I'm kind of thankful for that, ha.) It was the early nineties, but the video quality was terrible even for that era.
 
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MarkSB

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When my daughter was in high school she told me about some girl who was sexually active with her boyfriend and would talk about going a number of times to Planned Parenthood for either Plan B or the morning after pill or something.

I'm not sure what your thoughts are on Plan B - but research has pointed towards it being less likely to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg than the typical monthly hormonal birth control pill. I only mention this because I think the perception with Plan B among some Christians (including formerly, myself) is that it's primary mode of action is to prevent implantation, and the research which I've seen indicates that it may not prevent implantation at all:

By 2007, scientific consensus was building that morning-after pills did not block implantation. In one study using fertilized eggs that would have been discarded from fertility clinics, Dr. Gemzell-Danielsson found that adding Plan B in a dish did not prevent them from attaching to cells that line the uterus.
Later, in 2007, 2009 and 2010, researchers in Australia and Chile gave Plan B to women after determining with hormone tests which women had ovulated and which had not.
None who took the drug before ovulation became pregnant, underscoring how Plan B delays ovulation. Women who had ovulated became pregnant at the same rate as if they had taken no drug at all. In those cases, there were no difficulties with implantation, said one of the researchers, Gabriela Noé, at the Instituto Chileno de Medicina Reproductiva in Santiago. Dr. Blithe of the N.I.H., said, “No one can say that it works to inhibit implantation based on these data.”
Full Article Here (Though it may require special access or creation of an account.)


I'm not an expert on birth control - so take this with a grain of salt - but in contrast, the monthly birth control pill is believed to have several modes of action, with (among other things) two of them being: 1. Preventing ovulation, and 2. Preventing implantation by thinning the uterine wall / endometrium. The changes to the endometrium which are required for the second mode of action to work are thought to take several months to develop. Since the morning after / Plan B pill is not something that is taken regularly, there is not enough time for it to change the uterine wall in the same manner as monthly birth control.

I say all this as someone who, when it first came out, found the widespread use of Plan B birth control to be distasteful - because it seemed like preventing implantation was it's main mode of action. But the research seems to indicate that is definitely not the case.

Edit: To be clear - I don't think it is known if (or at what rate) monthly hormonal birth control acts to prevent implantation either. I think preventing ovulation is established as it's main mode of action, and that preventing implantation is stated as being possible, but likely rare. But as I said - take all that with a grain of salt. This is a subject which it was difficult to find clear answers and solid numbers for, when I went to do the research years ago.

My personal beliefs are that I avoid any form of birth control which has the possibility of affecting life after conception. This includes hormonal birth control - because while it is normally stated (per previous research) that prevention of implantation is unconfirmed and/or a rare possibility - it seems like the possibility is still there. I encourage all Christians (and non-Christians, for that matter) to do research on the various forms of birth control, how they work, and to wrestle that out with your conscience before God. I am not a person who believes that birth control should be outlawed - these are just my personal religious and spiritual beliefs. I do think it is an important spiritual subject for Christians to take into consideration. I personally don't know that such forms of birth control should be forbidden by church doctrine, either - but I can respect that there are some denominations who choose to go that route.
 
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