200 million girls gone

[Fantine]

Women are devalued in third world countries because the institutions in their culture devalue women.

Girls are aborted in third world countries because the institutions in their culture devalue girls.

The most important thing the Catholic Church can do in India and China (and the rest of the world, for that matter) is to present an example of valuing women.

I, for one, think there is huge room for improvement.

 

[WarriorAngel]

So, something cannot be male or female without being a person?

12 - or - 13 weeks is the earliest a sonogram can determine a baby's gender.
Do you know how cold someone has to be - to see their child and still kill them after the sonogram?

At this point of the game - it's really cold. We are talking frigid temperatures with insta freeze warnings.

And i hope before someone takes this approach - they consider what i have said. Before they do real harm to themselves by going through with an abortion that will likely cause remorse, regret, and deep scarring.

Unlike those who believe safety appeal is the utmost in the matter - i believe not only the life of the baby inside - but the mom too - will suffer. It will be mom's suffering that will be lasting.

 

[S.ilvio]

Women are devalued in third world countries because the institutions in their culture devalue women.

Girls are aborted in third world countries because the institutions in their culture devalue girls.

The most important thing the Catholic Church can do in India and China (and the rest of the world, for that matter) is to present an example of valuing women.

I, for one, think there is huge room for improvement.

Downs Syndrome children are aborted in Western countries because the institutions in their culture devalue them. But that devaluing is ok because its all about the Right to choose, right..?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Women are devalued in third world countries because the institutions in their culture devalue women.

Girls are aborted in third world countries because the institutions in their culture devalue girls.

The most important thing the Catholic Church can do in India and China (and the rest of the world, for that matter) is to present an example of valuing women.

I, for one, think there is huge room for improvement.

If anyone needs the Catholic Church to show the value of a woman, they need only look at the Papal writings.
It's all there.
Humanae Vitae, and Pope JPll - and others - put high value on women.

Read it sometime.

The issue is this - these countries have one goal in mind - financial.
Who [gender related] will support mom and dad in old age? The boy will. [in most countries]
Who is less expensive? [such as the example of India] - the boy is. Since the parents of the daughter must provide financials to the husband in marrying the daughter.
In India, husbands are burning their wives, killing them - so they can move on to the next financial windfall in marrying someone else's daughter.

It really doesnt have so much to do with valuing - as it does for financial gains or even less financial hardships. It's cultural. And according to the Church - it is a mortal sin to murder. And we are shown human dignity and Our Lady as primary role model - and how venerable she is - doesnt mean too much in other religions.

Muslims who do not value women - and treat them like property - dont believe in abortion. But in sharia law - they just have to bide their time til honor killing might be appropriate i suppose.

 

[Fantine]

Every human being should be valued and respected. The reason why the cultural devaluation of women that results in gendercide is getting so much publicity and attention is because 50% of children conceived are female.

Because of the scale of this devaluation, it is receiving a lot of attention.

Children with Down Syndrome should be valued--and the issue is not receiving enough attention because the affected group is miniscule in comparion to half of all conceptions.

There are, however, disabilities support groups who work to support and encourage women who learn their baby has Down Syndrome, and I believe in the work they do.

 

[Elysium]

most of the stuff the church writes only praises women as mothers
because the church says a woman is only fulfilled when she has kids
otherwise she has no purpose or she acts against her purpose
ive read all the stuff (obviously talking about religious women is a different story)
but there is no room in there for a woman who is not a mother/wont become a mother in the future and a woman who is not a nun/wont become a nun in hte future
theyre kind of in no mans land, forgotten or ignored

 

[Chrystal-J]

Why..?

Surely if the mother has the right to choose, the reasons should be irrelevant and none of our business...

Yes, the whole "we should be more bothered cuz it's just girls and not about abortion in general" is hypocritical. Once something like abortion becomes acceptable, it's just a matter of time before it's used in other diabolical ways. Although, from the video, it looks like they just throw baby girls in the garbage if they're born anyway. I don't know how there are any women left in these regions for marriage.

 

[WarriorAngel]

most of the stuff the church writes only praises women as mothers
because the church says a woman is only fulfilled when she has kids
otherwise she has no purpose or she acts against her purpose
ive read all the stuff (obviously talking about religious women is a different story)
but there is no room in there for a woman who is not a mother/wont become a mother in the future and a woman who is not a nun/wont become a nun in hte future
theyre kind of in no mans land, forgotten or ignored

Wow, did you dig up some of St Augustine's ponderings? That's an error to suggest the Church teaches that way.

A virgin [supposing one holds out to such a virtue] is considered quite a wonderful vocation. [and in todays world considered an anomaly or a vexation]

To be clear - if you seriously have read the Church's views - all humans have dignity. Women are equal in receiving their rewards in Heaven, and the kicker is - as Mary our Lady became the new Eve - she helped women gain equal status.
That doesnt mean our distinct roles are without value. I would [as does the Church] consider woman hood as important and integral to humanity as maleness.

In the Church we are no longer male or female, Jew or Gentile, et al. We are all one. One unity - One Bread - One Body - see the name of our forum? All are His Bride - all celebrate as one at Mass.

And out of curiosity - what did you read that you assessed it this way?

 

[Chrystal-J]

most of the stuff the church writes only praises women as mothers
because the church says a woman is only fulfilled when she has kids
otherwise she has no purpose or she acts against her purpose
ive read all the stuff (obviously talking about religious women is a different story)
but there is no room in there for a woman who is not a mother/wont become a mother in the future and a woman who is not a nun/wont become a nun in hte future
theyre kind of in no mans land, forgotten or ignored

I just got done reading about St. Barbara. This saint refused marriage and was martyred for her Christian faith. There are other non-married (with no children) female saints who are looked up to as role models for women of faith.

 

[Fantine]

When I think about the Church's position on women--I go to the experts--women religious.

They've been part of the establishment for centuries--not quite insiders, of course, but near enough to have a better idea of what goes on than the rest of us do.

And having said that, I think that nuff's said.

 

[Elysium]

i didnt say anything about not being equal

i said that a womans only reaches the fulfillment of her feminine being (as a woman) if she has kids
i dont know why your telling me about the Mother of God, she was a mother and is the model for all women
and i already said that women who were nuns or in degrees of religious orders are the exception

women who marry but dont have kids are kind of an enigma in catholicism
no one knows how to categorize them
they arent mothers so they havent fulfilled their femininity
they arent consecrated virgins who gave up kids for the sake of God
theyre in the middle and SO FAR i havent found anything the church says about that
its usually always "women have dignity, the highest dignity is being a mother" or "the highest dignity for a woman religious is celibacy for the sake of God"

havent found anything in between

anyway aquinas talked about this
but i guess you can dismiss him if you want
even tho his philosophy is the basis for all theological study and priestly formation at present

 

[Rhamiel]

i didnt say anything about not being equal

i said that a womans only reaches the fulfillment of her feminine being (as a woman) if she has kids
i dont know why your telling me about the Mother of God, she was a mother and is the model for all women
and i already said that women who were nuns or in degrees of religious orders are the exception

women who marry but dont have kids are kind of an enigma in catholicism
no one knows how to categorize them
they arent mothers so they havent fulfilled their femininity
they arent consecrated virgins who gave up kids for the sake of God
theyre in the middle and SO FAR i havent found anything the church says about that
its usually always "women have dignity, the highest dignity is being a mother" or "the highest dignity for a woman religious is celibacy for the sake of God"

havent found anything in between

anyway aquinas talked about this
but i guess you can dismiss him if you want
even tho his philosophy is the basis for all theological study and priestly formation at present

that is a very good point

 

[holyorders]

My idea is how do we reject/fight abortion gently enough with enabling people to have abortions? I know love is the answer but I love the child and the parent(s). Neither should suffer or die from something as beautiful as new life.

I have seen every approach to this but I have never found a worthy solution.

 

[LoAmmi]

Please read my posts before trying to fight the good fight for abortion. I haven't defended a thing, I haven't said it was right or wrong or up or down.

What I have done is provided the reasons people do not think it is wrong and why they can see abortions just because the fetus is female is wrong.

Abortion is a no - can - do.

Arguing about safety - feminists thinking they can have rights that usurp someone else's life...is vile and disgusting. And i frankly dont care what bridges are burned.

BUT - on that note - if you see post #2 - evidently prayer works. That is the bridge. And that's what Catholics have been working on.
Evil doesnt care if it is demonized. Just saying.

A choice is a choice is a choice.
Why get upset that someone wants to kill off a girl over a boy?
I mean - killing is killing. It shouldnt matter - but for some it does. And yet simply - it really shouldnt if they are truly pro abortion.

And frankly, if it matters about the sex - then why cant they see it's hypocrisy? If you care about one gender - then how cold hearted can you possibly be to not care about the other?

12 - or - 13 weeks is the earliest a sonogram can determine a baby's gender.
Do you know how cold someone has to be - to see their child and still kill them after the sonogram?

At this point of the game - it's really cold. We are talking frigid temperatures with insta freeze warnings.

And i hope before someone takes this approach - they consider what i have said. Before they do real harm to themselves by going through with an abortion that will likely cause remorse, regret, and deep scarring.

Unlike those who believe safety appeal is the utmost in the matter - i believe not only the life of the baby inside - but the mom too - will suffer. It will be mom's suffering that will be lasting.

 

[S.ilvio]

What I have done is provided the reasons people do not think it is wrong and why they can see abortions just because the fetus is female is wrong.

And you've failed to do so, convincingly, on both counts...

 

[LoAmmi]

And you've failed to do so, convincingly, on both counts...

I think nothing would convince you because you aren't open to understanding their position. Better to think them hypocrites than see their point of view.

 

[S.ilvio]

I think nothing would convince you because you aren't open to understanding their position. Better to think them hypocrites than see their point of view.

Well of course they're hypocritical.

They support the right to choose when it suits their political outlook but oppose it when it doesn't...

 

[LoAmmi]

According to you it is not possible to support something but have exceptions to that support?

 

[S.ilvio]

According to you it is not possible to support something but have exceptions to that support?

It really is this simple.

Some Feminist groups view the right to choose as sacrosanct. They ignore the rights of the innocent unborn baby in the womb and can 'justify' the baby's killing because its the woman's choice.

But if that choice is made on gender grounds all of a sudden the baby's right to life is accepted as being superior.

Gross hypocrisy...

 

[LoAmmi]

It really is this simple.

Some Feminist groups view the right to choose as sacrosanct. They ignore the rights of the innocent unborn baby in the womb and can 'justify' the baby's killing because its the woman's choice.

But if that choice is made on gender grounds all of a sudden the baby's right to life is accepted as being superior.

Gross hypocrisy...

Some people view the right to speech as sacrosanct.

But if that speech is used to put people in danger, such as yelling fire at a crowded theater, the speech is now seen as inferior to the safety of others.

Those hypocrites!



You are not presenting the point of view accurately. They would never, ever say that the "right to life" was the problem. The problem is, basically, eugenics.

You are saying that someone that is pro-choice but anti-eugenics is a hypocrite. That is not a correct statement.

Also, I would point out that often these things happen in places where there are laws or there is cohesion to abort these babies. That would take away the "choice" element and they wouldn't be hypocrites to support that either.

Perhaps the word hypocrite shouldn't be batted about so easily. But that is a call to peace and understanding and it seems like those are usually ignored in favor of bashing the other side as much as possible.