13-year-olds are too young to be on social media, US surgeon general says

[RDKirk]

I have absolutely 0 real friends I stay in touch with online.

I have no group hobbies, interests, or pursuits. If anything, it feels like the internet has robbed me of them....but perhaps I let them go myself.

My mind just drifts online between consuming information....on a very wide range of topics and then occasionally anonymously spewing opinions on some of these topics across various boards.

I don't know why people who all share the same opinions group up into these echo chambers and repeat themselves to each other. If you have the same opinion as everyone else....that's ok....but your input isn't needed. If 5 million people already said it....go outside, read a book, do anything else.

Why, validation, of course.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Why, validation, of course.

It sure looks that way. It looks like a lot of insecurity and fear of nonconforming.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

We already knew about racism long before social media. Social media hasn't turned up any new racism.

We all knew about it, but a lot didn't know the extent.

Certain things going "viral", (that 20 years ago, would've been swept under the rug, or knowledge of it would've remain contained locally) have helped shine a light on certain issues, or at least made enough people aware of it that it gets more attention.

It's easy for politicians and media outlets to blow something off if only 100 people in southwest PA know about it...when 10 million people coast-to-coast know about it, it forces their hand a bit and they have to address it.


Now, the other edge of that sword, is that in our justice system (which obliges a fair and impartial trial), it's become increasingly difficult to provide that if everyone and their mother has seen the video of something happening 50 times (with biased commentary)


In that regard, social media can be both the sunlight that's the metaphorical "disinfectant", and it can be the poison in the well.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I don't know why people who all share the same opinions group up into these echo chambers and repeat themselves to each other. If you have the same opinion as everyone else....that's ok....but your input isn't needed. If 5 million people already said it....go outside, read a book, do anything else.

That's assuming that people are using it just for the purposes of finding an echo chamber. Some certainly do, but that's not a hard fast rule.

I'm in 20+ facebook groups, only 1 has anything to do with politics, and that one's just a libertarian meme group where people poke fun at both major political parties with NPC memes. The rest are interest-based and not political opinion-based.

There's a lot of cool groups on FB for shared interests. I've done a few meet-ups with people in local photography and hiking groups. It can be a great way to meet friends with similar interests that you never would've crossed paths with otherwise.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'll be honest....when I think of internet based viral social movements, I don't think of marijuana advocacy. In order, I think of BLM, MeToo, and if you want to include "Trans activism" or whatever that's fine....

If I had to characterize these movements it would be by mostly emotional appeals, and almost a complete lack of understanding or clear goals. The damage they've done is in the billions, lives lost, and little more gained than whatever wealth those who led them grifted from those who followed them.

The marijuana advocacy is much better organized and actually has tangible and quantifiable goals, and an action plan that's narrow in scope and that's not bundled with a bunch of unrelated side-ideologies and baggage that people find unpalatable. (for instance, you don't see marijuana advocacy saddled with mission statements like undermining capitalism and dismantling the nuclear family unit like one of the other movement you listed)


But none the less, you can't deny the fact that advocacy has been expedited via social media. Per my previous example, look at how slow the movements went for gay rights, and juxtapose that against how much ground other similar movements have made in such a short amount of time.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We all knew about it, but a lot didn't know the extent.

I saw racism going viral....but it was....petty. Always some angry white woman or man clearly being recorded during some incident or inconvenience lets slip some racial outburst and ends up getting fired. This was ugly....but not the best way to handle things. It got ridiculous when we're debating whether or not the texts of a 14yo kid should be cause for dismissal from Harvard.

Certain things going "viral", (that 20 years ago, would've been swept under the rug, or knowledge of it would've remain contained locally) have helped shine a light on certain issues, or at least made enough people aware of it that it gets more attention.

It's easy for politicians and media outlets to blow something off if only 100 people in southwest PA know about it...when 10 million people coast-to-coast know about it, it forces their hand a bit and they have to address it.

I sort of understood the reaction to viral policing gone wrong....I can't remember more than a few that I could say were racist to any certainty. If you, for some reason like watching too many movies, were under the impression these people never made mistakes or bad assumptions or were ever unprofessional.....that's kind of on you.

They're people in a weird sort of high stress job. They've all made mistakes. Catching a glimpse of a few is more just the realization of what that job actually is.

Now, the other edge of that sword, is that in our justice system (which obliges a fair and impartial trial), it's become increasingly difficult to provide that if everyone and their mother has seen the video of something happening 50 times (with biased commentary)

Yeah I don't think anyone stands much chance of a fair trial.....cop or otherwise....once they've gone viral.

In that regard, social media can be both the sunlight that's the metaphorical "disinfectant", and it can be the poison in the well.

There's a lot that has happened that shouldn't. Protesters shouldn't be shown swarming into a Walmart and looting it and still be called protesters. People shouldn't be bailing out people arrested during riots. People shouldn't be driving over protesters unless their lives are actually in danger. Businesses shouldn't fear repercussions for trying to do business.

I get that you may think that shining a light on police was good....I'd agree....but it went from that to putting them under a microscope. The police are worse now....you just don't hear about it as often.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's assuming that people are using it just for the purposes of finding an echo chamber. Some certainly do, but that's not a hard fast rule.

I'm in 20+ facebook groups, only 1 has anything to do with politics, and that one's just a libertarian meme group where people poke fun at both major political parties with NPC memes. The rest are interest-based and not political opinion-based.

There's a lot of cool groups on FB for shared interests. I've done a few meet-ups with people in local photography and hiking groups. It can be a great way to meet friends with similar interests that you never would've crossed paths with otherwise.

I'll take your word for it.

 

[RDKirk]

We all knew about it, but a lot didn't know the extent.

"What you mean 'we,' white man?"

If you know that joke.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I get that you may think that shining a light on police was good....I'd agree....but it went from that to putting them under a microscope. The police are worse now....you just don't hear about it as often.

It's not just left leaning causes that have reaped the benefits of bad behavior of "the other side" going viral.

There have been some right leaning advocacy efforts that have been helped by that as well.


One could be inclined to suggest that the 180 that we've seen with regards to attitudes towards social media is, in part, due to the fact that one particular faction doesn't control all facets of social media anymore.


It was just last year that Biden himself and other elected leaders were sending out social media posts to members of the nation's youth.

 

[ViaCrucis]

While I sometimes go on twitter in the hope of finding something funny to laugh at, it's still pretty hard to avoid the cesspool that is online discourse. I gave up facebook several years ago because it ceased to be a place where I could stay in touch with friends and family and just became a place of total chaos.

I second the sentiment that if all social media just ceased we'd probably all be better off for it.

I also do believe that 13 is far too young to be exposed to social media. I can't really think of any benefit that such exposure would bring. Even for adults it's basically brain rot. Complex ideas such as politics and the like can be better introduced to young people through other means. I'd much rather my kid be introduced to certain things, like politics, in the context of an education setting; not the internet, and definitely not social media.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LizaMarie]

While I sometimes go on twitter in the hope of finding something funny to laugh at, it's still pretty hard to avoid the cesspool that is online discourse. I gave up facebook several years ago because it ceased to be a place where I could stay in touch with friends and family and just became a place of total chaos.

I second the sentiment that if all social media just ceased we'd probably all be better off for it.

I also do believe that 13 is far too young to be exposed to social media. I can't really think of any benefit that such exposure would bring. Even for adults it's basically brain rot. Complex ideas such as politics and the like can be better introduced to young people through other means. I'd much rather my kid be introduced to certain things, like politics, in the context of an education setting; not the internet, and definitely not social media.

-CryptoLutheran

Personally I'm glad I lived to be age 50 before social media came into existence. Or was in it's infancy when I turned 50.
I do have a FB account I keep it at the high privacy level, and only keep it to keep up with close friends and relatives.
I got so sick of all the political stuff on FB, I have mostly quit posting there.
I have a Twitter account, but never post and set it to private and only keep it to follow posts.
I also have a private Instagram, only keep it to follow posts of grandkids.
I think social media companies should have an age limit and I also agree that 13 is too young.
I've seriously thought of deleting my Twitter account(it IS a cesspool) and will never sign up for any others.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's not just left leaning causes that have reaped the benefits of bad behavior of "the other side" going viral.

There have been some right leaning advocacy efforts that have been helped by that as well.

Examples? Or just the best one you can think of...

One could be inclined to suggest that the 180 that we've seen with regards to attitudes towards social media is, in part, due to the fact that one particular faction doesn't control all facets of social media anymore.

When was this period where one particular faction controlled all facets of social media?

Because I've been on the internet since dial up AOL. I've watched it go down. The period you speak of imo only recently began to exist....
That is, where one faction controlled most social media.

It was just last year that Biden himself and other elected leaders were sending out social media posts to members of the nation's youth.
View attachment 327505

? And?

 

[RoBo1988]

I would agree that 13 yr olds are too young- parental involvement would be necessary. And (as you mentioned) this flies in the face of everything else this administration is attempting

..and, I think Muthy's assessment is giving some mixed messages here given the administration he's working for. It wasn't too long ago when people were having conversations about advocating for allowing 16 year olds to vote or have an abortion without parental notification/consent. And we're currently having national-level conversations about whether or not to allow adolescents to make major life-altering medical decisions.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Examples? Or just the best one you can think of...

Examples of right leaning advocacy that have been helped by social media? Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire crew would be pretty big benefactors of social media who have grown their reach and exposure, largely in part due to social media channels where videos are featured with them debating against progressive college students and winning.

LibsOfTikTok would be another example of a conservative curating and shining a spotlight on some of the "excesses of the left".

When was this period where one particular faction controlled all facets of social media?

Because I've been on the internet since dial up AOL. I've watched it go down. The period you speak of imo only recently began to exist....
That is, where one faction controlled most social media.

Perhaps our lines are getting crossed here, but I'm referring to the time period where left-leaning thought controlled both FB and Twitter. After Twitter became the property of Elon Musk, the people who chastising conservatives for pushing for certain social media restrictions and restricting youth access, seem to have done a 180 post-"Musk Acquisition".


If you want to see examples..there are a few threads on here (as well as articles) where, prior to someone from Biden's administration saying "restricting social media for minors may be a good idea", people seemed to have a very different view of it when similar efforts were prefaced with "Texas GOP House bill seeks to restrict social media access"

? And?

As I made reference to in my OP, it's mixed messages from the administration.

The president speaking directly to youths, on a platform that one of his top health & wellness guys says isn't suitable for youths.

 

[Tinker Grey]

All of this strikes me as same old song; new lyrics.

Too young for pong. Too young for Pacman. Too young for rock-n-roll. Too young to be on a computer. Too young to have a cell phone. Too young for social media.

What we have, I think, is parents too slow to adapt and accept their responsibilities in the face of a changing world.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

All of this strikes me as same old song; new lyrics.

Too young for pong. Too young for Pacman. Too young for rock-n-roll. Too young to be on a computer. Too young to have a cell phone. Too young for social media.

What we have, I think, is parents too slow to adapt and accept their responsibilities in the face of a changing world.

I would agree with that assessment.

Although, you can't entirely blame the parents for that. With few exceptions, the younger generations tend to be one step ahead on adopting new things. You ever try to show a 63 year old aunt how to run antivirus on their computer? I rest my case.

The cliché "it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks" wasn't pulled out of thin air.

My main concern would be this being another case of "we're doing this to protect the children" being given as the reason, when the honest reason would be "we're trying to insulate children from ideas we disagree with"

As we've now seen, people on both sides are playing that card.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Examples of right leaning advocacy that have been helped by social media? Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire crew would be pretty big benefactors of social media who have grown their reach and exposure, largely in part due to social media channels where videos are featured with them debating against progressive college students and winning.

Yeah but is that because of social media or the sudden lack of people willing to debate then?

Many of these guys are willing to debate on multiple issues...and can't find a single person, expert or otherwise, willing to engage. Instead, tactics are to prevent them from having a platform, censorship, and protesting.

I wouldn't consider them so much of a success, but rather their opponents are failures.

LibsofTikTok simply gathers compilations of videos the left makes...unedited...and posts them. She literally gives them extra exposure.

LibsOfTikTok would be another example of a conservative curating and shining a spotlight on some of the "excesses of the left".

They post those videos themselves. I don't understand the complaint. If you didn't want your opinion out there....why post it?

Perhaps our lines are getting crossed here, but I'm referring to the time period where left-leaning thought controlled both FB and Twitter. After Twitter became the property of Elon Musk, the people who chastising conservatives for pushing for certain social media restrictions and restricting youth access, seem to have done a 180 post-"Musk Acquisition".

Yeah I honestly haven't seen whatever changes were made since I'm not on there.

If you want to see examples..there are a few threads on here (as well as articles) where, prior to someone from Biden's administration saying "restricting social media for minors may be a good idea", people seemed to have a very different view of it when similar efforts were prefaced with "Texas GOP House bill seeks to restrict social media access"

Right....it's a situation where each side now uses censorship instead of debate because they appeal to the violence of words and harm and trauma of letting others speak.

As I made reference to in my OP, it's mixed messages from the administration.

The president speaking directly to youths, on a platform that one of his top health & wellness guys says isn't suitable for youths.

.
I wasn't sure what you were going for there. I get it now. I doubt many picked up on that.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Yeah but is that because of social media or the sudden lack of people willing to debate then?

Many of these guys are willing to debate on multiple issues...and can't find a single person, expert or otherwise, willing to engage. Instead, tactics are to prevent them from having a platform, censorship, and protesting.

I wouldn't consider them so much of a success, but rather their opponents are failures.

That actually proves my point about social media helping them. They're smart guys, there's no denying that. I know people on the left hate Shapiro, Walsh, and Knowles, but they're not simpletons, they're pretty skilled in the art of debate. But as you mentioned, people are not aware of anyone willing to engage them or who can stand toe to toe with them in a debate. That actually has happened at events like PolitiCon and on a few occasions, on some televised interviews. The ones where they're "owning the libs" are the ones that go viral on social media. The ones where it's a pretty even match against someone like Chris Hahn or Hassan Piker get largely ignored (because there's no benefit in right leaning folks posting videos of "Chris Hahn stumps Michael Knowles")

Cenk Uygur (while I'm certainly not his number 1 fan, and don't agree with him on a lot) gleefully debates these types of guys on the right. He's done formal debates against Ben Shapiro, Dinesh D'souza, Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, etc... Those don't get social media buzz (or if they do, it's 20 second clips of the instances where his opponents are getting the upper hand)

The DailyWire has been able to build an entire brand (and a quite successful one) thanks to conservative leaning social media.

LibsofTikTok simply gathers compilations of videos the left makes...unedited...and posts them. She literally gives them extra exposure.

But that's not good exposure...I was using that as a comparison to how social media has shined a light on bad behavior by showing people acting the way they would if they think they're in a "safe place"

So much like a cop may be willing to bend the rules when they think they're around people who won't publicize that fact to a wider audience (but viral cell phone videos change that), LibsOfTikTok shows the kinds of things far left progressives say and do when they think they're in the safe place of a far-left echo chamber.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That actually proves my point about social media helping them. They're smart guys, there's no denying that. I know people on the left hate Shapiro, Walsh, and Knowles, but they're not simpletons, they're pretty skilled in the art of debate.

Are they though? I don't pretend to be able to poke holes in everything they say....but I don't see a lot of strong arguments.

But as you mentioned, people are not aware of anyone willing to engage them or who can stand toe to toe with them in a debate. That actually has happened at events like PolitiCon and on a few occasions, on some televised interviews. The ones where they're "owning the libs" are the ones that go viral on social media. The ones where it's a pretty even match against someone like Chris Hahn or Hassan Piker

I don't know Chris Hahn....but I would be shocked see Piker actually do well in debate. I've never seen it and I've seen a fair bit of his content. I'm curious about what the topic was....because certain things never get debated....though they take priority as left wing issues.

get largely ignored (because there's no benefit in right leaning folks posting videos of "Chris Hahn stumps Michael Knowles")

Again....haven't heard of Chris Hahn. Since you brought him up twice, I looked at the first video of him and Knowles. They weren't debating, but they were arguing about DeSantis, Disney, Don't Say Gay, etc. Hahn had exactly 1 substantive point....that deceiving Democratic voters is good because it doesn't matter what means are used towards Democratic Party ends. I'm dead serious....that was the basis of his only argument. He gave a dismissive opinion of Disney regulation, and then proceeded with a very mild but predictable personal attack on Knowles for opposing anything gay people want to do.

I don't know what sort of things were discussed at Politicon....but good grief.

Cenk Uygur (while I'm certainly not his number 1 fan, and don't agree with him on a lot) gleefully debates these types of guys on the right.

You're correct....I actually forgot about Cenk. He typically also defaults to emotional appeals, personal attacks, and trying to speak over his opponent. Generally....it's nothing to hold in regard. I think I've seen him score a point or two before....but he's generally awful.

He's done formal debates against Ben Shapiro, Dinesh D'souza, Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, etc... Those don't get social media buzz (or if they do, it's 20 second clips of the instances where his opponents are getting the upper hand)

Well is there a debate he's ever done well in? I've watched at least one full debate of his...and he's terrible.

.

The DailyWire has been able to build an entire brand (and a quite successful one) thanks to conservative leaning social media.

Again, I think you're misattributing their success as something other than the failure of guys like Cenk. If Cenk could pull 10 clips from a debate where he made his opponent look dumb....he would.

But that's not good exposure...I was using that as a comparison to how social media has shined a light on bad behavior by showing people acting the way they would if they think they're in a "safe place"

Aka....what they actually think.

So much like a cop may be willing to bend the rules when they think they're around people who won't publicize that fact to a wider audience (but viral cell phone videos change that), LibsOfTikTok shows the kinds of things far left progressives say and do when they think they're in the safe place of a far-left echo chamber.

Well that may be....obviously I don't know if they're dumb enough to think TikTok is a far left echo chamber.

You're sort of making my point for me though....if showing the left at its most honest is negative coverage, then you can understand why they struggle in a debate.

Charlie Kirk....somehow able to brush off college students like lice.....lost a debate with actual white supremacists. These political talking heads on the right aren't exactly dumb....but how do you lose to actual white supremacists.

I'll put it to you like this....I've found one debate on the merits of CRT. 1. It's super short about 10 minutes. It's a grad school critical gender studies finishing his masters (I think) vs a girl with a bachelors in biology I think.

That's weird when you consider that this theory is basically taking over social sciences and social issues on the political left. They can't stand up to Charlie Kirk? Groypers can beat Charlie Kirk in a debate. I'm not calling these people stupid....but they're a far cry from being able to form strong arguments.

 

[RDKirk]

I would agree with that assessment.

Although, you can't entirely blame the parents for that. With few exceptions, the younger generations tend to be one step ahead on adopting new things. You ever try to show a 63 year old aunt how to run antivirus on their computer? I rest my case.

The cliché "it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks" wasn't pulled out of thin air.

My main concern would be this being another case of "we're doing this to protect the children" being given as the reason, when the honest reason would be "we're trying to insulate children from ideas we disagree with"

As we've now seen, people on both sides are playing that card.

Well, I'm nearly 70, and I ran my first antivirus program on my PC in 1990 against "Stoned."

I've had a computer continuously on my desk at work since 1973 (well, actually in 1973 my work desk was a computer), owned a personal computer since 1985, been building them since 1988.