‘You Parade Around In Two Masks For Show’: Rand Paul Questions Fauci on Masks after Vaccination

[stevil]

Ah, yes. Less was known. Well, if he didn't know, he shouldn't have spoken with certainty about what he didn't know.

When there is a novel virus tending towards a global pandemic you want experts giving advice, even on limited knowledge of the current disease.
They start off not knowing everything, but they are the best people to offer advice.
Would you rather just silence???

As time passes and as more is learned, you would expect the scientists to provide more and more informed advice.

You claim my statement was incorrect, and then quoted the part of the article that I was quoting from. This part: ""Scientists are hoping for a coronavirus vaccine that is at least 75% effective, but 50% or 60% effective would be acceptable, too, Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said during a Q&A with the Brown University School of Public Health"

Clearly, by both my statement and your repeating of it, he said it. It's in the article as you know.

Comprehension is an important thing.
You were claiming that Fauci was making a prediction.

However Fauci made two claims, and no predictions.
1. Fauci offered statistical advice that it would be unlikely to get a vaccine that is over 98% effective. As it turns out, the current vaccines are under 98% effective.
2. Fauci claimed that a vaccine that was 50%, 60% or 75% effective would be acceptable. Thankfully the vaccines turned out to be much more effective than 75%.

At no point did Fauci make any prediction on how effective any of the future vaccines would turn out to be. (although this is what you are portraying)

 

[Aldebaran]

When there is a novel virus tending towards a global pandemic you want experts giving advice, even on limited knowledge of the current disease.
They start off not knowing everything, but they are the best people to offer advice.
Would you rather just silence???

As time passes and as more is learned, you would expect the scientists to provide more and more informed advice.

That's what you're willing to say in hindsight, but when people understand it to be the case as the "advise" is coming from people like Fauci, they're called "science deniers". When the "deniers" are found to have been correct, then the response is always along the lines of what you just wrote.

 

[stevil]

That's what you're willing to say in hindsight, but when people understand it to be the case as the "advise" is coming from people like Fauci, they're called "science deniers". When the "deniers" are found to have been correct, then the response is always along the lines of what you just wrote.

Fauci wasn't incorrect.

But, are you suggesting that the experts are supposed to have total knowledge of a new disease, right from the beginning?

 

[Nithavela]

Grandpa Nurgle would appreciate if people would stop wearing masks after their vaccination. That's the best way to help the strains that can escape from the vaccination, ringing in a glorious continuation of the pandemic for a minimum of a year.

 

[Aldebaran]

Fauci wasn't incorrect.

When he claimed that masks don't work (as a way to discourage people from buying them and keeping them from health workers), he was incorrect.

 

[stevil]

When he claimed that masks don't work (as a way to discourage people from buying them and keeping them from health workers), he was incorrect.

He never said that masks don't work.
He said they don't provide perfect protection - this is true.
He was discouraging their use in the early days as there was a mask shortage and he wanted masks to be available for front line medical staff.

His position as of today (and for almost a year). People should be wearing masks.

 

[NightHawkeye]

He never said that masks don't work.
He said they don't provide perfect protection - this is true.
He was discouraging their use in the early days as there was a mask shortage and he wanted masks to be available for front line medical staff.

His position as of today (and for almost a year). People should be wearing masks.

... doubling up seems to be his current stance.

But ... if two is good, four must be even better.

 

[SimplyMe]

... doubling up seems to be his current stance.

But ... if two is good, four must be even better.

Not from what I recall. You'll have to forgive me as it has been a few weeks since I read that study about masks but my recollection is that they found that two was optimal. Basically, while three could provide a bit more protection (under 1% added protection), it was offset by the fact that the third mask started causing varying levels (depending on the exact masks used) of breathing issues, that the masks prevented fresh air from being inhaled.

Of course, they found that a single mask remained optimal when using N95, KN95, and KF94 masks, as those provide similar (but typically better) performance than cloth and surgical masks.

 

[Ringo84]

People like Rand Paul assume that everyone else is as performative and cynical as they are.
Ringo

 

[stevil]

... doubling up seems to be his current stance.

But ... if two is good, four must be even better.

Is it a right wing thing right now? To try to discredit Fauci?
You'd rather seek Paul Rand the politician or maybe Sean Hannity the opinion show host or Scott Atlas the radiologist??

Seems the right just want to listen to people on the political far right.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

He is a scientist and he is trying very hard to advise the president and the population what steps should be taken to reduce the amount of deaths that this pandemic will likely take in USA.

But for some very weird reason there are many people running around either
1. denying the pandemic exists
2. denying the efficacy of wearing masks
3. denying the efficacy of vaccines
4. denying the death rate
5. denying the contagiousness of the virus
6. deny the medical and science experts knowledge and messaging
7. state that they only care about themselves and consider themselves not in a high enough risk group to care about taking any precautions.

Understood, but that still doesn't explain why a person who is fully vaccinated would be wearing two masks as he walks into the room, and then in the very same room take it off and start talking.

Nor does it make sense for a fully vaccinated person to be wearing two masks, especially when he just said this not long ago...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1355991619225448450

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Or, he's an expert who knows that mask wearing should be encouraged until the danger has actually passed. Given that we have a number of new variants that have variable resistance to the vaccines he's not dumb to err on the side of caution.

So, rather than the cynical political theater he's being accused of, he's doing what he can to save peoples lives.

Downplaying the danger of the virus hasn't been a good thing for our public response to it yet, but folks like Paul seem keep to that tact.

There's a difference between "being responsible and not downplaying the danger of the virus", and "fully vaccinated person double-masking when they know they're going to be on camera", only to take if off before they're about to give a speech or interview.

If we're talking danger to the level where even a fully vaccinated person should still be wearing two masks, he shouldn't be taking if off when he gives interviews or speaks to congress.

And, again, to clarify, we're not talking about regular masking (which is fine), we're talking about the public double-masking.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Understood, but that still doesn't explain why a person who is fully vaccinated would be wearing two masks as he walks into the room, and then in the very same room take it off and start talking.

Nor does it make sense for a fully vaccinated person to be wearing two masks, especially when he just said this not long ago...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1355991619225448450

View attachment 296682

He was wearing two masks because that is the CDC's current recommendation (as of about a month after the statement from that tweet). He took them off after he sat down in order to make sure that he could be understood and because he was seated more than 6 feet away from everyone else in the room. Presumably, he was wearing the masks because he was walking through the capitol building prior to the hearing.

Fauci is in a bit of a difficult position in that he's a scientist trying to disseminate research for public consumption. Science is, by nature, mutable - he was correct that there wasn't sufficient data to support double-masking when he made that statement. However, a study released about three weeks later lent support to the importance of a tight-fitting mask (Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks to Improve Performance and Reduce SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Exposure, 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)), and the most effective way to achieve that is to wear two masks (see figure 1 from the above study). Consequently, CDC updated their recommendations, and Fauci updated his facewear.

 

[stevil]

Understood, but that still doesn't explain why a person who is fully vaccinated would be wearing two masks as he walks into the room, and then in the very same room take it off and start talking.

Fauci explained why a vaccinated person should still wear masks.
With regards to the double mask thing, I haven't researched this, but I am confused as to why some people are making a big deal of it.
I presume a medical grade (like N95) would be sufficient. But in lieu of that, perhaps having just cloth masks, I have seen that it is recommended to have cloth masks with multiple layers.

In terms of taking the mask off to talk to the cameras, as far as I understand it, the droplets expelled in breathing and talking, only travel a short distance and if you are able to maintain the required distance from others, then the mask isn't necessary AND if speaking an important message to the public, the spoken words are more clear without wearing a mask.

I think some people who are criticising things are rigid and black and white and are not taking nuances into account.

 

[variant]

There's a difference between "being responsible and not downplaying the danger of the virus", and "fully vaccinated person double-masking when they know they're going to be on camera", only to take if off before they're about to give a speech or interview.

If we're talking danger to the level where even a fully vaccinated person should still be wearing two masks, he shouldn't be taking if off when he gives interviews or speaks to congress.

And, again, to clarify, we're not talking about regular masking (which is fine), we're talking about the public double-masking.

Walk me through it. Why are we upset?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Walk me through it. Why are we upset?

Oh, Fauci can wear 7 if he wants, I was speaking to the subject of the thread, which was Rand saying that Fauci was engaging in political theater (which some people disagreed with...I happen to agree with Rand on this one).

A fully vaccinated person, interacting with other people who have been fully vaccinated -many of whom did it on camera- (and/or that are regularly tested) seems a lot more like wearing it for show than any sort of practical or pragmatic application.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Fauci explained why a vaccinated person should still wear masks.
With regards to the double mask thing, I haven't researched this, but I am confused as to why some people are making a big deal of it.
I presume a medical grade (like N95) would be sufficient. But in lieu of that, perhaps having just cloth masks, I have seen that it is recommended to have cloth masks with multiple layers.

Like I replied to Variant, I personally don't care what he does...

He could do this if he wanted

The topic at hand was whether or not he was engaging in political theater.

The particular areas where he's often spotted doing the double-masking on camera, are places where most everyone has also been fully vaccinated (like him), or regularly tested.

 

[stevil]

Oh, Fauci can wear 7 if he wants, I was speaking to the subject of the thread, which was Rand saying that Fauci was engaging in political theater (which some people disagreed with...I happen to agree with Rand on this one).

A fully vaccinated person, interacting with other people who have been fully vaccinated -many of whom did it on camera- (and/or that are regularly tested) seems a lot more like wearing it for show than any sort of practical or pragmatic application.

I have two issues with this.

1. "Political theatre"?? - Do you think promoting or wearing two masks is winning points for Republican party or Democratic Party or some other party?????? Why is this considered by you as a political thing?

2. Did you listen to what Fauci said about why people who are vaccinated should still wear masks?
Because your post seems to ignore this point.

 

[Ringo84]

It continues to baffle me why grown adults - and I am not talking about ThatRobGuy here, but in general - can be such babies about masks.

This is not hard! All you have to do is wear a mask to protect yourself and others. Yeah, wearing a mask kinda stinks, I get it. If you wear glasses or sunglasses, the lens can get fogged up. That's a small price to pay to keep yourself and others safe.
Ringo

 

[Aldebaran]

It continues to baffle me why grown adults - and I am not talking about ThatRobGuy here, but in general - can be such babies about masks.

This is not hard! All you have to do is wear a mask to protect yourself and others. Yeah, wearing a mask kinda stinks, I get it. If you wear glasses or sunglasses, the lens can get fogged up. That's a small price to pay to keep yourself and others safe.
Ringo

It goes farther than that with some people. I find that I can't even breathe if I have it over my nose. I have to keep pulling it down every couple minutes so I can catch my breath, which sort of defeats the purpose.