How Old Is The Earth

Fisherking

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That's a graphic illustration. A depiction. Not the same thing as a radiological image.
And if I put a radar image on my computer and sent it out that would also not be a radar image, but they used the WMAP to map all this our with radar. You are just seeing what they saw in a tidier package, you are not arguing the facts that this is a true presentation.

So, God uses science to prove his word is true and we FIGHT IT.............LOL
 
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Platte

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I really don't see why some Christians have a hard time with this and feel the need to overcomplicate it.
It’s because they get confused into thinking it’s a scientific question instead of a historical question
 
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Diamond7

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Creation did not happen 6,000 years ago just because the agricultural civilization in Mesopotamia began 6,000 years ago.
There are many "Edens" in the world. What makes the Eden in the Bible Unique is that it is a Biodiverse Ecosystem that domesticated animals and cultivated plants. Evolution is all about the difference between wild plants and cultivated plants. When man was able to produce more food then the population was able to expand and grow. Some believe the population began with one million people and is over 8 billion today. Even in my lifetime the worlds population has tripled. Not in this country but in places like India and China.
 
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Diamond7

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It’s because they get confused into thinking it’s a scientific question instead of a historical question
History and science are two different books. The problem is that public schools do not teach history. What they call history I would call current events and revisionism.
 
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trophy33

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There are many "Edens" in the world. What makes the Eden in the Bible Unique is that it is a Biodiverse Ecosystem that domesticated animals and cultivated plants. Evolution is all about the difference between wild plants and cultivated plants. When man was able to produce more food then the population was able to expand and grow. Some believe the population began with one million people and is over 8 billion today. Even in my lifetime the worlds population has tripled. Not in this country but in places like India and China.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make...
 
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trophy33

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There was perfect knowledge of the natural world that degraded as time passed
No, this is a pure fantasy.

...unbelievers in the OT history...
A derogating term. Lets say "people educated in the OT history".

2 Peter 3:5-7 But they deliberately forget that long ago, by God’s word, the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
Yes, the author of the 2 Peter refers to the Genesis creation narratives. He did not have access to modern scientific discoveries, so his language is not scientific, but theological.
 
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trophy33

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What I take exception to is going too far with calling things in scripture symbolic and especially with calling them mythological. When it comes to genealogies, they took place in stages. Abraham was a very important person, so it's not unusual for him to have a genealogy. Likewise it wouldn't be unusual for King David to have a genealogy. Each of the older genealogies go from one significant patriarch to the next. I don't see it as being close to impossible the way you do. Rather I find it quite possible and doable.
Mythological stories of creation, the biblical inspiration not being automatic dictation of every word or of every sentence and genealogies not being precise is not "going too far". It changes nothing for Christianity.

Its not doable to have precise genealogies leading to 3000 BC, thats why such genealogies do not exist.
 
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trophy33

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LIke I said in my first post - its not complicated. Civilization began approximatly 6000 years ago....Recorded History began approximatly 6000 years ago...Language began approximately 6000 years ago...Writing began approximately 6000 years ago...and based on the chronologies of the Bible, Creation occured approximately 6000 years ago (and took 6 days). History supports Creation occuring 6000 years ago. Science does not support it - as would be expected.
Yes, its not complicated.

You complicate it when you start proclaiming that the beginning of the Mesopotamian civilization (of agriculture, writings...) means the universe did not exist before, just because you do not know how to read Genesis properly.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Mythological stories of creation, the biblical inspiration not being automatic dictation of every word or of every sentence and genealogies not being precise is not "going too far". It changes nothing for Christianity.
A proper understanding of Scripture matters. And one can go too far in what they call metaphor and especially mythology in Scripture. Any mythology that resembles what's in Scripture is based on what actually happened in ancient times as recorded in Scripture as revealed to Moses and the Prophets by God. That's what sets Scripture apart from mythology.
Its not doable to have precise genealogies leading to 3000 BC, thats why such genealogies do not exist.
They exist in Scripture.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Yes, its not complicated.

You complicate it when you start proclaiming that the beginning of the Mesopotamian civilization (of agriculture, writings...) means the universe did not exist before, just because you do not know how to read Genesis properly.
The traditional orthodox understanding of Genesis is the proper way to read it. What you consider the proper way, probably came into existence in the 19th century.
 
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trophy33

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A proper understanding of Scripture matters.
Agreed.

And one can go too far in what they call metaphor and especially mythology in Scripture.
No, if its really a mythology or a metaphor. In such a case this person would go too far claiming its literal.

Any mythology that resembles what's in Scripture is based on what actually happened in ancient times as recorded in Scripture as revealed to Moses and the Prophets by God. That's what sets Scripture apart from mythology.
No, thats not what sets the Old Testament apart from mythology. The OT uses mythology. Its set apart from pagan mythology by separating the creation from deitiy.

They exist in Scripture.
Yes, only there.
 
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trophy33

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The traditional orthodox understanding of Genesis is the proper way to read it. What you consider the proper way, probably came into existence in the 19th century.
The traditional "orthodox" reading of the Old Testament was also geocentrism (so also even Luther) or burning witches. Traditions do not matter, what matters is truth.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Yes, the author of the 2 Peter refers to the Genesis creation narratives. He did not have access to modern scientific discoveries, so his language is not scientific, but theological.
Unlike heathen scientists who reject God, Peter had direct access to what God knows though Jesus.
 
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trophy33

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Unlike heathen scientists who reject God, Peter had direct access to what God knows though Jesus.
Christian scientists. Plenty of them. And they do not reject God. Science as such even is rooted in the Christian culture. Peter had no direct access to what God knows, do not claim crazy absurdities.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Agreed.


No, if its really a mythology or a metaphor. In such a case this person would go too far claiming its literal.
You have that backwards. It's claiming something literal in Scripture must be mythology or a metaphor, because it doesn't line up with what the ungodly came up with in the 19th century.
No, thats not what sets the Old Testament apart from mythology. The OT uses mythology. Its set apart from pagan mythology by separating the creation from deity.
You're using a worldly humanistic view in deciphering what God told Moses and the Prophets.
Yes, only there.
Because only the word of God is there.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Christian scientists. Plenty of them. And they do not reject God. Science as such even is rooted in the Christian culture. Peter had no direct access to what God knows, do not claim crazy absurdities.
Think for a second. Jesus is God. And Peter spent years in His presence. The idea that Peter received no extraordinary knowledge from that is a crazy absurdity. You downplay Jesus, the Apostles, the Prophets and Moses as being as pedestrian as possible.
 
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Ceallaigh

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The traditional "orthodox" reading of the Old Testament was also geocentrism (so also even Luther) or burning witches. Traditions do not matter, what matters is truth.
Oh yeah, it's all been wrong until a scientific reading of Scripture came along in the 19th century.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I doubt you will ever get it, tunnel vision is a real thing my friend. Yes yowm can mean DAY........but it can also mean many other TIME PERDIODS. God did not create the Universe in 6 days but in 6 time periods. Matters not what you put forth, those facts are not ever going to change, when you get to heaven and God tells you if you had listened you could have reached more peoples souls.
Well, you’re just ignoring the evidence I presented. The Hebrew word Yovm is never once used in the Bible referring to anything other than a 24 hour period of time or daytime as opposed to night time. The Hebrews used the word Yovm the same way we use the word day today. The meaning of the word is indicated by grammatical the usage of it and if you paid attention to the verses you quoted you would see that in every single case you provided it is actually used the same way we use the word day in English. The definition your trying to apply to Genesis 1 is not grammatically correct.
2.) The Bible is PROVING ITSELF via the passages I cited. And you refuse to run with that victory. DARKNESS was on the Face of the Deep(Dark Ages on the map)........Scientists mapped out the Universe with radar, you understand radar right? Its just as true a picture as you can get, Airplanes used it to fly blind, Doctors use radar imaging to find tumors in our bodies, its REAL my friend, so do you think they just lied about that Radar Map I showed you?
“The deep” is the universe? Then why did you omit the other half of that verse?

”The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So you’re saying that “the deep” here isn’t referring to the waters that is mentioned in the same exact sentence? Cmon your trying too hard to insert something into the text that is not there.
 
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Mercy Shown

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No, this is a pure fantasy.
One person's fantasy is another person's facts. I am only explaining how I see it. You see it differently, and who am I to disparage the way you see it? If I were in your position, I would never be a Christian. I could not. How could I hold to some ridiculous beliefs while dismissing other ridiculous beliefs? How could I, with a straight face, say that God used violence and predation to form humans whom He then commanded to love their enemies?

How could I scoff at a seven-day creation but believe in the dead coming back to life? How could I call survival of the fittest at the expense of the weak a sin when it has been a natural part of "God's Creation?" How could I read the New Testament without thinking about how ignorant its writers were? I can respect an atheist evolutionist while disagreeing with them. They are at least being consistent. But trying to shoehorn evolution into Christianity just doesn't work for me. Trying to shoehorn evolution into science doesn't either. Call it science philosophy, but it is not something you can take to the lab and test.

Just look at myths by scientists like the Oort Cloud and Dark Matter, not to mention the ones that have now been debunked, like phrenology or the Piltdown Man. This is due to the human factor which includes
A derogating term. Lets say "people educated in the OT history".
No, let's call it what it is. Calling those who do not believe in the OT as its face value are unbelievers in the OT. There's nothing derogatory about that. One who does not believe is an unbeliever, and one who believes is a believer. It does not matter what the subject is. Derogatory words are critical and disrespectful and not just identifying what they are.

I am an unbeliever in evolution, and I have no problem saying that
Yes, the author of the 2 Peter refers to the Genesis creation narratives. He did not have access to modern scientific discoveries, so his language is not scientific, but theological.
He is referring to an event. His statement comes from inspiration unless you do not believe that the bible was inspired or perhaps you believe only parts of it were.

Modern scientific discoveries do not include origins. You believe in evolution by faith. It is faith either way. The fact that a Christian who believes in evolution still uses God to fill in the gaps and is just as laughed at by the scientific community as are the fundamentalists.

Whether He started the spark of life and nudged it along by the self-centric struggle for survival or He just spoke it into existence makes no difference to secular biologists. It is all just crazy town to them.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I doubt you will ever get it, tunnel vision is a real thing my friend. Yes yowm can mean DAY........but it can also mean many other TIME PERDIODS. God did not create the Universe in 6 days but in 6 time periods. Matters not what you put forth, those facts are not ever going to change, when you get to heaven and God tells you if you had listened you could have reached more peoples souls.

1.) Me being honest, this is too simple to debate, its just not a debatable issue UNLESS you MANDATE God changed the Laws of Nature(hurried the process of creation up), and since God lives in all time at once He would have no need of doing that.

2.) The Bible is PROVING ITSELF via the passages I cited. And you refuse to run with that victory. DARKNESS was on the Face of the Deep(Dark Ages on the map)........Scientists mapped out the Universe with radar, you understand radar right? Its just as true a picture as you can get, Airplanes used it to fly blind, Doctors use radar imaging to find tumors in our bodies, its REAL my friend, so do you think they just lied about that Radar Map I showed you?

View attachment 345627


Its a RADAR IMAGE.............it can not be a lie !! There was 400 million years of DARKNESS, you are just not willing to listen to facts. So, I can never reach a guy who will not even listen to facts. If a doctor showed you a radar image of a tumor would you believe it?

Verse 2 the DARKNESS was on the Face of the Deep. This proves the bible 100 percent correct via this Radar Image. Yet we do not use this to further men's faith in God's truths, WHY ?

On the Fourth Day God created the SEASON, TIMES, YEARS, DAYS........how? The Earth and Moon were two planets the same size, when they crashed into each other the earth got the bulk of the mass, and the Moon was left as a Satellite of sorts which gives us our SEASONS, Years, Days, Months etc. etc. via a gravitational pull that gives the earth orderly seasons. Without the moon the earth would basically be uninhabitable.

Its all right there. It is what it is. When you get to heaven you will instantly understand you were in error on this my friend.
The moon has nothing to do with seasons. The main function of the moon is to protect the earth from incoming debris. Seasons are dictated by the tilt of the earth’s axis not the position of the moon.

So I can see your trying to reconcile science and the Bible which is fine, I did that myself. The thing is we came to two different conclusions. I tried your method first of reinterpreting the scriptures and it doesn’t work. The only way you can interpret the scriptures to coincide with science requires redefining the words that are used in the creation account but that poses a problem because you won’t find those words being used in that redefined manner anywhere else in scripture. So if you have no other examples of these words like evening and morning being used as “end” and “beginning” or whatever other definition your trying to apply to them then you have no solid basis to conclude that this is the usage that the author actually intended. Numerous people find Strong’s Concordance and see the definitions there and are content on applying that definition to the word Yovm but that still leaves other interpretational problems like the evening and morning references. So now we have to redefine evening and morning to coincide with the definition of the word Yovm that we’re trying to apply to it and you can’t do it without completely creating your own definition that is not used anywhere else in the scriptures. So it doesn’t work, it’s not biblically sound and it’s not grammatically correct.

So after trying all this and coming to the conclusion that I can’t redefine words in Genesis 1 to coincide with science without contradicting their usage in the rest of the Old Testament I turned to examining science itself and I found that scientists make a lot of assumptions in their claims and they don’t always display their findings in the same manner that they claim to have based their conclusions on. I’m willing to discuss this if you’d like.
 
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